B4 Inner Tie rod replacement

TonyJetta

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I have searched the forums, people have mentioned it, but I have yet to find a how-to or write-up about it.

Is replacing the inner tie rod as easy as unbolting the rod from the rack?

Oh, and, yes I do have a bently, but for whatever reason, I can't find ANYTHING mentioned about the steering rack nor inner tie rods.
/rant While bently is good for listing torque values, sometimes (frequently) callouts or ref numbers in drawings don't match up! /end rant

I don't have th parts...yet. Waiting on shipping and 1-2 weekends.

Thanks!

Tony
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
You will not find that info in Bentley because usually the 'official' procedure involves removal of the steering rack.

However, it is a typical textbook tie rod R&R, however there is usually a special tool required. There may also be a choice of tie rods, as VAG uses a couple of rack suppliers, ZF and TRW. Most German-built B4s will have a ZF rack.
 

dauber

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2002
Location
Fresno
I just changed the inner boot on the passenger side. Lucky for you your new tie rod will come with a boot already on it, or you can put it on when you get it. This was a SOB to change while connected to the car. There is a guide hole in the boot and a guilde rod that looks like a brake line that the boot has to fit into. I had to use a very short screwdriver to move the rod out a little in order to get the boot on.

I did not see a way to disconnect from the rack although I was not really looking. Hopefully there is a way to do it without removing the whole rack. I am sure someone here knows either way. Good luck

So
 

TonyJetta

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oilhammer said:
You will not find that info in Bentley because usually the 'official' procedure involves removal of the steering rack.

However, it is a typical textbook tie rod R&R, however there is usually a special tool required. There may also be a choice of tie rods, as VAG uses a couple of rack suppliers, ZF and TRW. Most German-built B4s will have a ZF rack.
Mine is TRW.

What special tool?

Tony
 
Joined
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Location
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96 glx variant tdi
dauber said:
There is a guide hole in the boot and a guilde rod that looks like a brake line that the boot has to fit into.
The "guide" hole tube allow equalization of air pressure between the two bellows as one compresses and the other expands. Not the funnest job in the world, but not the hardest either.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
An inner tie rod tool includes a hollow tube which fits over the rod and includes a socket at one end for cooperation with a socket tool. The opposite end includes a retainer which is cooperative with C-shaped wrench discs of various size and configuration that cooperate with the nut associated with the inner end of the inner tie rod.

Lisle 45750 Inner Tie Rod Tool:

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21897Q8H7GL._AA200_.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.amazon.com/Inner-Tie-Rod-Removal-Set/dp/B000IKPRC8&h=200&w=200&sz=8&hl=en&start=14&sig2=_XZpSmizX4k9FZiRG8DRlg&um=1&tbnid=Rp-U0OyLJXcasM:&tbnh=104&tbnw=104&ei=r86lR7fUK4bcigGI0OS5AQ&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dinner%2Btie%2Brod%2Bremoval%2Btool%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN
 

TonyJetta

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'15 Jetta TDI SE / '06 Jetta TDI DSG Pkg0 / '96 Passat TDI
Oilhammer,
THANK YOU! I was wondering how much hassle I was going to have to enjoy removing the inner tie rods.

I have one on order today!

BTW...How much torque on the new rods? Tight enough or do you know of a reasonable number?

Thanks!

Tony
 
Last edited:

TonyJetta

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'15 Jetta TDI SE / '06 Jetta TDI DSG Pkg0 / '96 Passat TDI
Thanks dauber! My bently shows nothing associated with the rack! Am I dissapointed for the cost of the manual....ummm....YEAH!

Tony
 

RIP TDI

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'15 GSW SE 6MT...... '01 Golf GLS 5MT.... '96 Passat Variant....
It doesn't appear that the Lisle set will work. The inner tie rod hex is 32mm. Unless there are other sizes not listed in the description, it doesn't look like there is an adaptor close enough (1 1/4"). But Oilhammer has probably used it for this application, so he can confirm.

I used a 32mm crowfoot wrench (from a large-size set of same) on one side along with a 32mm open end wrench on the other side. This method allows loosening the joints without putting a wedge load on the R&P teeth they were not designed for. The reason the factory procedure has you remove the R&P and change the joints on the bench is to be able to easily counterhold the rack while removing the joints.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Actually I am not sure what brand mine is, but Lisle is who makes a lot of them for many other people to put their name on. Mine came with 4 sizes, one of them fits Volkswagen tie rods.
 

dauber

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2002
Location
Fresno
The A3 Bentley pretty much says what Chris said but working with it off the car. It also mentions to use locking compond VW D6 or equivalent on the inner joint.

I understand about the cost of the B4 Bentley, I have been looking on flea bay for a used one but no luck so far. I have been able to use the A3 Bentley for some things but that will not last.
 

TonyJetta

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dauber said:
I understand about the cost of the B4 Bentley, I have been looking on flea bay for a used one but no luck so far. I have been able to use the A3 Bentley for some things but that will not last.
[/rant on]
The cost isn't the problem....It's:
Missing call outs on drawings
Wrong call outs on drawings
Missing or left out information (steering rack, for example)

When using the manual for putting back together an engine someone else took apart, you find little detail like this helpful. Or, like in my case, you find the details missing.

Fortunately, with the help of the club members, I've been able to get through some of the missing details.

[/rant off]

Tony
 

Lug_Nut

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idi: 1988 Bolens DGT1700H, the other oil burner: 1967 Saab Sonett II two stroke
Tony,
Bentley B4 manual, volume 2: S 48-75 "Tightening torque: 70 Nm (52 ft lb).
What do you need? Someone to do it for you?
 

TonyJetta

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Lug_Nut said:
Tony,
Bentley B4 manual, volume 2: S 48-75 "Tightening torque: 70 Nm (52 ft lb).
What do you need? Someone to do it for you?
I have the electronic version. Tried to look up that page manually and using the search: no joy.

You think someone would do it for me? :D I'm not opposed. Most gurus sound just as anal as I am. ;)

Tony
 

Lug_Nut

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idi: 1988 Bolens DGT1700H, the other oil burner: 1967 Saab Sonett II two stroke
TonyJetta said:
Thanks dauber! My bently shows nothing associated with the rack! Am I dissapointed for the cost of the manual....ummm....YEAH!
TonyJetta said:
When using the manual for putting back together an engine someone else took apart, you find little detail like this helpful.
For some reason I associate "manual" with a book. If you has said "disk" I'd have realized your problem was new technology not being better technology.
Buy the paper version.
 

TonyJetta

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Just a quick comment: Manuals take many shapes and forms.

The only reason I did NOT buy the paper version was to avoid getting it greasy. In hind sight, that may have been a less than wise decision. However, my therapy is done and I am over it now. ;)

Tony
 

dauber

Veteran Member
Joined
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Location
Fresno
I am holding out for the paper one myself. I learn my lesson with the CDROM version I purchased for my Mercedes. Although there is alot of info in the CDROM, I prefer the paper manuals.
 

TonyJetta

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Just to close this out...got busy with work & home.

I wound up making my own crows foot wrench. And, NO the lisle tool DOES NOT HAVE A WRENCH THAT WILL FIT. All the crows feet in the set are fractional inch. And, the closest fraction just rounds off the hex. Fortunately it came loose before I had to get REALLY creative.


So, the home brew crows foot? Cut off the open end of your favorite 32mm wrench and weld to your favorite 1/2" socket extension at a right angle, and, voila!


Hope this helps someone in the future.

Tony
 

SovietB4

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1996 Passat TDI Wagon(1Z), 2005 TDI Passat, 2003 F-250 CC 6.0 Powerstroke
TonyJetta said:
Just to close this out...got busy with work & home.

I wound up making my own crows foot wrench. And, NO the lisle tool DOES NOT HAVE A WRENCH THAT WILL FIT. All the crows feet in the set are fractional inch. And, the closest fraction just rounds off the hex. Fortunately it came loose before I had to get REALLY creative.


So, the home brew crows foot? Cut off the open end of your favorite 32mm wrench and weld to your favorite 1/2" socket extension at a right angle, and, voila!


Hope this helps someone in the future.

Tony
You are kidding right? I'll never understand how people over complicate the tie-rods on these cars. If you don't have the appropriate sized wrench, then pull out your favorite 12" crescent wrench. You simply turn the steering wheel lock to lock to push the appropriate tie rod out of the housing far enough so you can fit a crescent wrench or (insert your favorite snap on, mac, matco, crafstman etc) wrench on the inner nut and off it threads. There is plenty of room this way and you don't need some wierd $600 dollar tool with a german part number on it (or a welded frankenstein device) and a prayer from above to make it work. It should take you longer cutting off the remains of the tattered bellows boot than actually removing a complete or inner tie-rod.

I also prefer the paper manual. The CD is worthless if your Hard drive crashes with the one use keys and you don't have a receipt proving purchase. I now have 2 expensive paperweights. Bentley doesn't do anything to help you out either. I don't like them (bentley).
 

Matt-98AHU

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SovietB4 said:
You are kidding right? I'll never understand how people over complicate the tie-rods on these cars. If you don't have the appropriate sized wrench, then pull out your favorite 12" crescent wrench. You simply turn the steering wheel lock to lock to push the appropriate tie rod out of the housing far enough so you can fit a crescent wrench or (insert your favorite snap on, mac, matco, crafstman etc) wrench on the inner nut and off it threads. There is plenty of room this way and you don't need some wierd $600 dollar tool with a german part number on it (or a welded frankenstein device) and a prayer from above to make it work. It should take you longer cutting off the remains of the tattered bellows boot than actually removing a complete or inner tie-rod.

I also prefer the paper manual. The CD is worthless if your Hard drive crashes with the one use keys and you don't have a receipt proving purchase. I now have 2 expensive paperweights. Bentley doesn't do anything to help you out either. I don't like them (bentley).
Even with the wheel turned all the way, you often times still don't have the space to get a crescent wrench on it to make that work.

My favorite ones are cars like a Ford Focus that don't even have flats on the inner tie rod. So that tool is only useful for putting on a new MOOG tie rod that does actually have flats. I get the old ones off with an air chisel. One of my most favorite tools ;)

Just because the Lisle tool doesn't specifically list a 32MM adapter doesn't mean it doesn't have a piece that won't fit. I believe the 1 1/4" adapter fits just fine on most VWs. Sure, it's not properly metric, but it works very well.
 

TonyJetta

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SovietB4, I did what I had to do. In retrospect, I might have been able to get the tie rods off that way. But, it's done and I'm not looking back! ;)

Tony
 

JETaah

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96 B4V, 1999.5 jettaIV,2005 BEW Beetle
It makes it easier to do inner tie rod ends by getting the control arm out of the way (or out of the car). Clear shot with ordinary tools once that is done. And while you are at it change the control arm bushings.
It requires some new stretch hardware but it is a good opportunity to do both jobs.
 

SovietB4

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How odd. I've done complete tie rods on a cabby, passat 16V, TDI, and VR6 (plus suspension), both jetta VR6 and 2.slow and I've used nothing but a 12" crescent wrench or proper sized wrench using the method listed above as the means of removal and install. Is there something different about the cars you're working on? I've never had to remove the control arm or anything. Just turn the steering wheel to full lock and remove. It really is that easy. I wouldn't know about the ford focus but every VW I've ever worked on has been the same. Heck, they have been using the TRW and ZF racks for a 14 year span there and with the exception of plus suspension cars, the chassis throughout the range is very similiar up front. Hence the reason the drivetrain was completely swapable with no mods throughout 4 different cars over the course of XX years.
 

jollyGreenGiant

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I use the above mentioned special tool and wouldn't do it any other way unless I had a 32mm crowsfoot which wouldn't be as good as the tool and mine isn't metric either, one of the adapters fit just right. I too forget which brand of tool mine is but quickly realized that this was the only proper way to do this job way a long time ago. I had this tool before I had a cable operated band clamp tool if that makes any sense.
 

Lug_Nut

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idi: 1988 Bolens DGT1700H, the other oil burner: 1967 Saab Sonett II two stroke
I didn't go full lock, just enough to allow slipping a 32 mm open end wrench up between the lower control arm and the subframe onto the inner rod end.
I used an pipe wrench (with brass covers on the jaws) on the end of the rack to counter hold it.
The end came out easily once the thread lock compound had broken free.
 
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