Common Rail Timing Belt Protector

Ol'Rattler

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 3, 2007
Location
PNA
TDI
2006 BRM Jetta
An inspection means it looks good right at that moment. It could break anytime after that. How many times have I read here that the looks of a belt (TB in particular) give no indication as to how serviceable it still is.
When there is a timing failure, usually, it is because a roller, tensioner or water pump failed that wasn't changed at the last T/B change. Almost never is a timing failure caused by the belt.

A T/B, if changed at the proper interval, will appear to be completely serviceable when you remove it. A bad idea, but just the T/B will last to about 150% of it's service life if none of the other components in the timing path fail.

If you don't want replacement parts that could "fail at any time", stop buying CRAP (Chinese Replacement Auto Parts)............
 
Last edited:

Henrick

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 24, 2010
Location
Ireland
TDI
Golf VI TDI, 77 kW (CAYC)
When there is a timing failure, usually, it is because a roller, tensioner or water pump failed that wasn't changed at the last T/B change. Almost never is a timing failure caused by the belt.

If you don't want replacement parts that could "fail at any time", stop buying CRAP (Chinese Replacement Auto Parts)............
These of your two statements are completely false. I asked our local shop about that just a day ago.

They see lots of TB failures with valve damage on VW/Audi/Seat/Skoda engines and in all cases it's belt fault. Belts crack, loose teeth and skip timing, break or simply shred.

Also, there are no chinese belts/rollers available. All rollers sold in kits are INA/SKF, belts are Contitech/Dayco/Gates. Personally I haven't seen any "no name" belt in the market when I was looking for a replacement in my previous MkV. I tried to look for no name belt just because I wanted to compare prices and not because I was even considering to buy it.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
These of your two statements are completely false. I asked our local shop about that just a day ago.

They see lots of TB failures with valve damage on VW/Audi/Seat/Skoda engines and in all cases it's belt fault. Belts crack, loose teeth and skip timing, break or simply shred.

Also, there are no chinese belts/rollers available. All rollers sold in kits are INA/SKF, belts are Contitech/Dayco/Gates. Personally I haven't seen any "no name" belt in the market when I was looking for a replacement in my previous MkV. I tried to look for no name belt just because I wanted to compare prices and not because I was even considering to buy it.
Must be very different on your side of the pond then. Like, totally different. I've never once seen any 2002+ VE, PD, or CR that had a belt failure before the service interval. Quite the contrary, I have seen far too many to count that have gone well OVER the interval. My record for the ALH is 186k miles.

Of course, in Ireland you simply CAN'T drive that many miles... the country simply isn't big enough. I would imagine it is pretty rare to see the mileages we see. 200k is peanuts. My TDI docket today has three of those, and one knocking on 300k, and the F350 here (that is a big Ford truck.... you don't see those either) has 460k miles... and he's spending a few grand on it expecting it to continue service for a few hundred more.

(BTW, NONE of the above vehicles has ever suffered an accessory belt OR timing belt failure, and they've all been serviced here since new ;) ).
 
Last edited:

BuzzKen

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
May 16, 2011
Location
Markham, Ontario
TDI
'10 Touareg TDI, '09 335D, '10 X5D
These of your two statements are completely false. I asked our local shop about that just a day ago.

They see lots of TB failures with valve damage on VW/Audi/Seat/Skoda engines and in all cases it's belt fault. Belts crack, loose teeth and skip timing, break or simply shred.

Also, there are no chinese belts/rollers available. All rollers sold in kits are INA/SKF, belts are Contitech/Dayco/Gates. Personally I haven't seen any "no name" belt in the market when I was looking for a replacement in my previous MkV. I tried to look for no name belt just because I wanted to compare prices and not because I was even considering to buy it.

You sir, have never ordered from prothe..... lol.
 

vanbcguy

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2013
Location
Vancouver, BC
TDI
'93 Passat - AHU mTDI with GTB1756VK
I consider it EXTREMELY disrespectful to come in to someone's thread who had put the time and effort in to developing a product and argue about whether or not it has any value. Of COURSE it has value. Maybe not to everyone but that's why not everyone will buy one. If this was a "should I buy a belt protector" thread then this sort of discussion would be acceptable but that's not what this is.
 

BuzzKen

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
May 16, 2011
Location
Markham, Ontario
TDI
'10 Touareg TDI, '09 335D, '10 X5D
I consider it EXTREMELY disrespectful to come in to someone's thread who had put the time and effort in to developing a product and argue about whether or not it has any value. Of COURSE it has value. Maybe not to everyone but that's why not everyone will buy one. If this was a "should I buy a belt protector" thread then this sort of discussion would be acceptable but that's not what this is.

Unfortunately, this has become far too commonplace on here.
 

wilcharl

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2010
Location
Northern Virginia
TDI
2010 Jetta TDI BOUGHT BACK 23 NOV 16. Now owner of 2016 Jeep Cherokee
Just my two cents:

If my high-pressure fuel pump fails chances are VW is going to make good and replace it at no charge

If my diesel particulate filter clogs I can have it serviced or replace it I'm out about $1000

If my turbo craps out I'm out about $1000

Probability of any of those things slim
cost to repair: Affordable

If my serpentine belt shreds Jams itself into the timing belt I potentially have several thousand dollars worth of repairs on my vehicle which The cost of the repairs and my time are likely higher then the vehicles worth The problem is no one can tell me the root cause of the serpentine belt failure

could it be diesel fuel on the belt? Perhaps a bearing failing in the Idler. Or the alternator? Perhaps the belt itself


Again the probability of a failure is very very slim considering I keep a vigilant eye on my engine but, the cost to repair a catastrophic failure could be huge. So when I do my 120,000 mile service why not spend a few dollars on some cheap insurancefor something that even though the risk is very small the severity is high
 

Henrick

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 24, 2010
Location
Ireland
TDI
Golf VI TDI, 77 kW (CAYC)
Will this part also fit 1.6 TDIs?
What are the expected costs of this?
Plus shipping overseas?

Thanks.

Answering my own question.
I've used parts catalog to compare covers of 2.0 and 1.6.
It seems that 2.0 has got center and lower covers while 1.6 has got those two in once piece. It seems this Andrew's upgrade will not be compatible with 1.6 TDIs.
 

Ol'Rattler

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 3, 2007
Location
PNA
TDI
2006 BRM Jetta
I consider it EXTREMELY disrespectful to come in to someone's thread who had put the time and effort in to developing a product and argue about whether or not it has any value. Of COURSE it has value. Maybe not to everyone but that's why not everyone will buy one. If this was a "should I buy a belt protector" thread then this sort of discussion would be acceptable but that's not what this is.
"Quote": Lets open it up for discussion!!!
All the best,
Andrew.


The OP's exact words. So please explain to me how it is "disrespectful" to participate in a discussion the OP requested?

Clearly, the thread the OP linked to was about an individual that had a catastrophic failure caused by slipshod maintenance which was complicated by going to a dealer that didn't really understand what they were doing.

Unbelievable, they wasted the OP's labor time and money by putting a new timing belt on a trashed engine so they could run it to assess the damage when clearly the head needed to be removed and rebuilt, or a dealers usual option which would have been head replacement.

The thing to ponder here folks should be, should you do scheduled maintenance properly and at the required interval, or build a guard to protect from neglecting maintenance? Well within the realm of the discussion the OP requested.

As an aside, what do you do with the lower timing cover that does not fit anymore?
 
Last edited:

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Just my two cents:
If my high-pressure fuel pump fails chances are VW is going to make good and replace it at no charge
If my diesel particulate filter clogs I can have it serviced or replace it I'm out about $1000 No, it is more than that
If my turbo craps out I'm out about $1000 wrong again
Probability of any of those things slim wrong a third time
cost to repair: Affordable that is open for debate
If my serpentine belt shreds Jams itself into the timing belt I potentially have several thousand dollars worth of repairs on my vehicle which The cost of the repairs and my time are likely higher then the vehicles worth The problem is no one can tell me the root cause of the serpentine belt failure
could it be diesel fuel on the belt? Perhaps a bearing failing in the Idler. Or the alternator? Perhaps the belt itself
Again the probability of a failure is very very slimfinally got one right! considering I keep a vigilant eye on my engine but, the cost to repair a catastrophic failure could be huge. So when I do my 120,000 mile service why not spend a few dollars on some cheap insurancefor something that even though the risk is very small the severity is high
bold is mine.

I'm not sure you guys have a good grasp on what breaks on these cars and what doesn't.

And yes, the OP clearly stated this thread was open for discussion, which is what we are doing. I'm trying to offer a viewpoint from someone who actually works on these cars every day. I applaud the OP's effort here, and I think his fuel system saving device for the CRs is a great idea, even if it remains to be seen how well it will work, but I have high hopes that it can and will do what he says. However in this case, I feel this is a problem that is so slim, it just isn't worth the effort. There are far more items on these cars that have a MUCH greater potential to be a problem than this.

Oh, and Henrick, I think it is cute that you think there are no crappy Chinaparts floating around out there for Volkswagens. You, sir, have led a sheltered life in that respect. You have my jealousy, I wish that were the case here. However, one look at prothe's webstore will show you just how many substandard parts (including belts and related bits) are indeed available, and purchased in great numbers, and cause untold levels of tooefing. I've even cut open one of those fuel filters he sells, because some clown brought me one in to install on his car. It was as light as a soda can, I could have crushed it flat with my bare hands. Inside? Just a crude ring of what looked to be the rice-based cardboard, with about 7 pleats, just "floating" between the top and bottom (no attachment of any kind). In other words, a completely USELESS filter.

Anyways, I'm out, I've said my bit.
 

Henrick

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 24, 2010
Location
Ireland
TDI
Golf VI TDI, 77 kW (CAYC)
Oh, and Henrick, I think it is cute that you think there are no crappy Chinaparts floating around out there for Volkswagens. You, sir, have led a sheltered life in that respect. You have my jealousy, I wish that were the case here. However, one look at prothe's webstore will show you just how many substandard parts (including belts and related bits) are indeed available, and purchased in great numbers, and cause untold levels of tooefing. I've even cut open one of those fuel filters he sells, because some clown brought me one in to install on his car. It was as light as a soda can, I could have crushed it flat with my bare hands. Inside? Just a crude ring of what looked to be the rice-based cardboard, with about 7 pleats, just "floating" between the top and bottom (no attachment of any kind). In other words, a completely USELESS filter.
Anyways, I'm out, I've said my bit.
Oilhammer, appreciate your input!

I believe we're dealing two pairs of different things here:
-The regions - US vs Europe and suburbs
-The places where you can buy parts - the Internet versus local shops.

What I wanted to say in that particular case that I asked our local shops (not online Internet shops!) what was the price of alternative brand products (rollers and belts). All the shops I have visited told me that they don't have "alternative" brands - only the ones I've listed in that thread. Well, finding this out, I think is a good sign as nearby shops don't carry CRAP, at least here.

I've heard about that guy in US who sells Chinese parts over the Internet. I believe you can find anything there - that's why online stores are a bit risky - you're buying goods without actually seeing them and no one knows what was their origin.
 

Tintman718

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2011
Location
nyc
TDI
99.5 Golf (5-spd), '10 Golf (6-spd), '12 Touareg
elitegunslinger, thank you for the most useless post in this thread.

Ol'Rattler and oilhammer have made very good points about this product. As a former mechanic, I really appreciate the input. Statistically speaking, it's probably not worth the time or money in my opinion. To me, this is much like reasoning that you should play the lottery because there is a possibility of winning big. No thanks.

As a mechanical engineer, I can understand how and why 2Micron would invest in the development of this product. There is obviously a correlation between serp. belt failure and timing belt failure. It's really up to the consumer to decide whether this product is worth it to them.

Although, my opinion might be skewed since I have a taste for danger. That's why I don't use skidplates or condoms.
 

Samcar222

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2010
Location
Rochester, NY
TDI
2010 Salsa Red JSW TDI
Question that relates to serp/timing belts. So recently during cold starts my 2010 JSW (64k miles, original parts) has been emitting a soft squeaking/tick noise from the passenger side belt area. It only lasts for a few moments, the first time I heard it, I drove the car maybe 1000 feet down the road and back, and re-checked the noise and it was gone.
Any ideas? I may create a new thread soon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUPUrBJfUtk
Mine sounds like this, the light whirring, non diesel-y noise. Mine doesn't chirp like this A3 does at the end of the video, however.
 
Last edited:

BuzzKen

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
May 16, 2011
Location
Markham, Ontario
TDI
'10 Touareg TDI, '09 335D, '10 X5D
Reported. you will loose your posting privileges shortly, dumb ass.

Gonna have to say, that isn't any better. Name calling is against rules as well.

And what is 'loose posting' anyways? Is that like being a slutty poster?
 

Henrick

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 24, 2010
Location
Ireland
TDI
Golf VI TDI, 77 kW (CAYC)
This is quite an interesting thread. Could we please it on topic?

It would be useful if Andrew would chime in with a few comments of when approx this mod will be available and how much it would cost.
 

Dirtracr95

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2013
Location
Des Plaines, IL
TDI
'13 Jetta Sedan DSG
Can we please dispense with the back and forth bickering and useless posts?

The posts that I've seen so far seem to think that you don't "need" this. I'd personally like to see when 2micron plans to bring this part to market and how much it will be. This is clearly a part you really "want" or "don't want".
I think price will dictate for most people whether they want it or not.
 

wilcharl

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2010
Location
Northern Virginia
TDI
2010 Jetta TDI BOUGHT BACK 23 NOV 16. Now owner of 2016 Jeep Cherokee
bold is mine.
I'm not sure you guys have a good grasp on what breaks on these cars and what doesn't.
And yes, the OP clearly stated this thread was open for discussion, which is what we are doing. I'm trying to offer a viewpoint from someone who actually works on these cars every day. I applaud the OP's effort here, and I think his fuel system saving device for the CRs is a great idea, even if it remains to be seen how well it will work, but I have high hopes that it can and will do what he says. However in this case, I feel this is a problem that is so slim, it just isn't worth the effort. There are far more items on these cars that have a MUCH greater potential to be a problem than this.
Oh, and Henrick, I think it is cute that you think there are no crappy Chinaparts floating around out there for Volkswagens. You, sir, have led a sheltered life in that respect. You have my jealousy, I wish that were the case here. However, one look at prothe's webstore will show you just how many substandard parts (including belts and related bits) are indeed available, and purchased in great numbers, and cause untold levels of tooefing. I've even cut open one of those fuel filters he sells, because some clown brought me one in to install on his car. It was as light as a soda can, I could have crushed it flat with my bare hands. Inside? Just a crude ring of what looked to be the rice-based cardboard, with about 7 pleats, just "floating" between the top and bottom (no attachment of any kind). In other words, a completely USELESS filter.
Anyways, I'm out, I've said my bit.

My numbers are not that far off///

DPF: | Part#: 1K0254706LX
List Price: $1,120.00
Your Price: $940.80
Core Price: $100.00


Borg-Warner Turbocharger (A5 CBEA)(MkVI CJAA) $1,099.00
Part # 03L253056
Manufacturer's Part Number: 53039880208

The point of my rant was of the poteintially catastrophic failures that seem to pop up on this forum,

1) I don't see the HPFP as an issue... Seems VW has taken good care of everyone

2) The turbocharger failing... I see it as a real issue... but, if it does, I am out just over $1,000 dollars and a weekened of busted knuckles.

3) The DPF clogging and not being able to be regenerated... In the remote chance that happening, I am out just under $1000 bucks and again a weekend of busted knuckles.

I have owned my car for four years, had 90,000 miles of wondeful driving. I have replaced

1) A Vaico DSG o-ring
2) One glowplug with a faulty pressure transducer

Essentially this has been a trouble free car for me. I am happy and in my comfort zone owning it... That said, would I spend a few dollars on cheap insurance when I do my TB service to add a plate? Sure.. Its a few dollars and no additional time to keep something that though rare, would have catastrophic results beyond $1,000 bucks and a weekend of busted hands.
 

Windex

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 1, 2006
Location
Cambridge
TDI
05 B5V 01E FRF
...Snip... Its a few dollars and no additional time to keep something that though rare, would have catastrophic results beyond $1,000 bucks and a weekend of busted hands.
Too bad nothing exists to provide the same piece of mind with respect to an HPFP failure.

Granted yours has been fine, you are but one (as yet incomplete) data point with respect to HPFP longevity.

90k is well prior to even mid-life in a TDI.
 

2micron

Vendor
Joined
Mar 23, 2012
Location
Canada
TDI
None
Pretty Exciting thread!!!
I appreciate the comments and banter!!! It creates great discussion and fun for all!!
We can not discuss pricing and sales in this thread, but it is a great discussion arena and the interest is huge.
I can say that I'm working closely with a very trusted Vendor here to help manufacture and distribute the product. Stay tuned for more banter, excitement and such, with more info in a proper vendor thread!!
Thanks!!
All the best,
Andrew
 

greengeeker

Vendor
Joined
Feb 8, 2006
Location
Cambridge, MN
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS
I'm a big fan of Andrew's efforts but I will say this: This lower timing belt cover clearance is the same on the ALH, BEW, BHW, BRM and now the common rail variants. Why is this now a devastating issue for engine longevity?

Personally I would prefer to understand the root of the issue...ie why are the belts failing. Solve that and you are back to the same story as all previous generations of TDI engines where you simply give it a quick glance at your oil change and it will last the life of your timing belt interval (>100k miles).

I applaud the OP's effort here, and I think his fuel system saving device for the CRs is a great idea, even if it remains to be seen how well it will work, but I have high hopes that it can and will do what he says.
Brian, not sure if you've seen this thread:

2009 HPFP Failure - Contained with 2Micron Kits
 

wilcharl

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2010
Location
Northern Virginia
TDI
2010 Jetta TDI BOUGHT BACK 23 NOV 16. Now owner of 2016 Jeep Cherokee
I'm a big fan of Andrew's efforts but I will say this: This lower timing belt cover clearance is the same on the ALH, BEW, BHW, BRM and now the common rail variants. Why is this now a devastating issue for engine longevity?

Personally I would prefer to understand the root of the issue...ie why are the belts failing. Solve that and you are back to the same story as all previous generations of TDI engines where you simply give it a quick glance at your oil change and it will last the life of your timing belt interval (>100k miles).


Brian, not sure if you've seen this thread:

2009 HPFP Failure - Contained with 2Micron Kits
I am with you.. I can't help but thinking there is a common cause.... i.e.: tensioner bearing that fails causing the belt to spread ... If that was the case i'd rather inspect/replace that item vs. install the guard but I don't think anyone knows the root cause of the belt failures
 

elitegunslinger

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2010
Location
Barnegat NJ
TDI
2010 Golf TDI :D
I heard a base price point around 85$ or less (don't quote me on speculation); now that isn't bad. What's everyone's opinion now?
 

ATR

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 18, 2005
Location
Baltimore
TDI
2011 Golf TDI 6MT
I'd say at that price (bonus points if it's less) it would be cheap insurance to prevent outside stuff getting into the timing belt area.
 

nate0031

Veteran Member - TDIClub Contributor
Joined
May 14, 2012
Location
SE Ohio
TDI
96 B4 Passat
Hmm. I wonder if the reluctor wheel behind my harmonic balancer would offer similar protection.
 

Ol'Rattler

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 3, 2007
Location
PNA
TDI
2006 BRM Jetta
Originally Posted by Ol'Rattler
Reported. you will loose your posting privileges shortly, dumb ass.


Gonna have to say, that isn't any better. Name calling is against rules as well.

And what is 'loose posting' anyways? Is that like being a slutty poster?
You were correct. I was suspended for IIRC two weeks. Lesson learned..............
 
Last edited:

elitegunslinger

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2010
Location
Barnegat NJ
TDI
2010 Golf TDI :D
I'd say at that price (bonus points if it's less) it would be cheap insurance to prevent outside stuff getting into the timing belt area.
That's what I'm thinking, hopefully the Fluidampr I've been looking at has similar specifications for a direct fit with the protector.

Hmm. I wonder if the reluctor wheel behind my harmonic balancer would offer similar protection.
Potentially, closing the gap is the goal.
 

2011tdiproject

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2013
Location
south dakota
TDI
2011 Golf
Hello Elite,
Shame, but a fellow I Respected said the Above. Geez, I was only trying to help. I was getting geared up and got the price way down to a more than easy to swallow upgrade.
Funny he mentions a Nuclear explosion. I work at a facility where we all work together to protect the public from a disaster like that.
Sorry for trying to help.
Andrew
Yeah, I sure wouldn't say what he said there. When you design something, you have to design the way it fails too! A lot of people seem to be missing this whole concept. You cannot have something minor fail and destroy the entire motor, and call that good engineering. You can call that "German engineering", but not good engineering. There is no way in hell a simple serpentine belt failure should destroy an entire motor. A lot of people carry a spare serpentine in the trunk, what are you supposed to do with the VW, carry a whole spare motor?

Keep doing your thing, 2 micron.
 
Top