TDI UOA Database

pleopard

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2006
Location
Calgary, Alberta
TDI
2010 Jetta TDI
What we need is a breakdown of engine types (ALH, BEW, BRM, CBEA, CJAA), further broken down by oil type, miles on engine, and then evaluated by ppm/1000km. All of this comparing of different oils in ppm (over how many km!!?) across all engines is pointless. A far more detailed analysis is required and we need far more participants.
 
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TooSlick

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 2, 1999
Location
Dixie
TDI
Audi 100S
Pleopard,

That's exactly right...it can take 50,000 miles for the wear pattern of a new TDI to stabilize. So comparing the rate of iron wear for the low mileage, 2009-2011 engines to the older, high mileage ones is pointless.

TS
 

pleopard

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2006
Location
Calgary, Alberta
TDI
2010 Jetta TDI
Right. This is pointless. Who's removing the outliers from the data? Who's evaluating pre-existing conditions with the engines? Who's evaluating severity of duty cycle? This data needs to be broken down into so many more categories, and then you'll quickly discover the amount of data you need is daunting.

There are a good number of examples of PD engines performing fine on 507 oils just as there are a good number of examples of ALH engines working poorly with M1 TDT.

Taking averages on a bunch of numbers from COMPLETELY different sources with no control is silly. I mean, if you want to use this data, you might as well also conclude that CBEA engines are horrible machines eating themselves alive!
 
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ruking

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 27, 2003
Location
San Jose area, CA
TDI
2003 VW Jetta, 5 M, Reflex Silver: 09 Jetta, 6 Sp DSG, Candy White: 12 VW Touareg, 8 Sp A/T, Flint Gray
Right. This is pointless. Who's removing the outliers from the data? Who's evaluating pre-existing conditions with the engines? Who's evaluating severity of duty cycle? This data needs to be broken down into so many more categories, and then you'll quickly discover the amount of data you need is daunting.

There are a good number of examples of PD engines performing fine on 507 oils just as there are a good number of examples of ALH engines working poorly with M1 TDT.

Taking averages on a bunch of numbers from COMPLETELY different sources with no control is silly. I mean, if you want to use this data, you might as well also conclude that CBEA engines are horrible machines eating themselves alive!
Well, cheer up. it is even worse than you think. For example If INXS of 30 data points (1,000 to 30,000 miles OCI's) yield good UOA, then what does statistically valid really mean? While we are at it, who is to say that what YOU or I (or anyone else for that matter) say has any meaning?
 
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ruking

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 27, 2003
Location
San Jose area, CA
TDI
2003 VW Jetta, 5 M, Reflex Silver: 09 Jetta, 6 Sp DSG, Candy White: 12 VW Touareg, 8 Sp A/T, Flint Gray
Pleopard,

That's exactly right...it can take 50,000 miles for the wear pattern of a new TDI to stabilize. So comparing the rate of iron wear for the low mileage, 2009-2011 engines to the older, high mileage ones is pointless.

TS
I for one, did not do that. So when you compare factory fill from one (ie.,) to one 09 TDI against another, against another, etc., the conclusion was drawn that wear patterns were very similar and almost across the board. The nexus here being 10,000 miles OCI's. I think more than just I are waiting for 2009-2011 engines UOA results with 50,000 miles on up.
 
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pleopard

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2006
Location
Calgary, Alberta
TDI
2010 Jetta TDI
While we are at it, who is to say that what YOU or I (or anyone else for that matter) say has any meaning?
LOL - You're not a tribologist or lubrication engineering, nor am I. That's why I rely on engineers to specify the correct oil for my car. If they screw up so badly that my car fails prematurely due to an oil related problem, well, then I'll get something other than a VW. However, so far, after running nothing but VW approved oils on my 92, 06, and now my unproven 2010, I haven't had any issues. Am I lucky? Perhaps. Or, perhaps the differences between one oil and another are simply not so dramatic that at the end of the day it's going to change my impression of VW. Humans have a tendancy to see and hear what they want to see and hear. The majority here seem to want API oils to be better than VAG oils and they want those API oils to make their engines magically invincible and everlasting. While we're at it, why don't we all get on the bandwagon and say that Mercedes diesels are better than VAG diesels and therefore they must be running a superior oil... Ooooh another controversy!
 
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pleopard

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2006
Location
Calgary, Alberta
TDI
2010 Jetta TDI
I think more than just I are waiting for 2009-2011 engines UOA results with 50,000 miles on up.
Yeah, I have 30,000 miles on mine and won't be too long before I have 50,000 miles. I'm beginning to wonder if I should just stop doing UOAs, drive more and worry less. It served me well since I bought my first VW and just put in the VW approved oils. :)
 

ruking

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 27, 2003
Location
San Jose area, CA
TDI
2003 VW Jetta, 5 M, Reflex Silver: 09 Jetta, 6 Sp DSG, Candy White: 12 VW Touareg, 8 Sp A/T, Flint Gray
That is correct, I have NEVER claimed to be. I am not sure what that has to do with anything.

However, I am a consumer (like most folks on this web site), that wants the 03 TDI product to hit a minimum of 500,000 miles and upwards of 1,000,000 miles. So that is why I run Delvac One 5w40, Mobil One 5w40 TDT. Again, aka not specified for 03 VW Jetta TDI. I am shooting for a no engine rebuild. Like you no issues on either 03/09 TDI's.

I mean really, I ran a 70 VW with 30 w oil with no issues to 250,000 miles. It was easy to tire quickly of 3,000 miles OCI's. It (30 W Pennzoil) of course was not VW specific nor specified.
 
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pleopard

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2006
Location
Calgary, Alberta
TDI
2010 Jetta TDI
Well, good luck. I don't think an oil with 5% better HTHS (M1 229.51 5W30 vs. M1 ESP 507 5W30) is going to get you from an engine that goes 500,000 miles to one that goes 1,000,000 or even from one that goes 300,000 to one that goes 500,000. However, I don't discourage experimentation. My philosophy is one that abides by the precautionary principle, which basically states that in the absence of complete or vast knowledge, be bloody careful. LOL.

I'll be the control sample for your guys. :p I'll stick to VW 507.00 and future VW specs.
 

ruking

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 27, 2003
Location
San Jose area, CA
TDI
2003 VW Jetta, 5 M, Reflex Silver: 09 Jetta, 6 Sp DSG, Candy White: 12 VW Touareg, 8 Sp A/T, Flint Gray
For sure, a certain amount of luck is needed and necessary. I appreciate the good/well wishes. However, when applied to the oil, ah no. Barring bad luck, manufacturing defects, it is basically a marathon. To wit, the specification for the 03 TDI (others also) has been outdated/superseded for a while, so much for complete and vast knowledge. Yet despite that M1 5w40 TDT oils on.

So in the context of OCI's 500,000 miles will be a range of 20 to 17 OCI's vs 50 if one follows the VW recommended 10,000 miles OCI's.
 
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JB05

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Location
Il.USA
TDI
Golf,2005,anthracite blue
IIRC, this is the thread where I had posted previous UOA's; so here are my last 2.
The 1st @ 6700 miles(231 hours) and the 2nd @ 12K miles(389 hours). Oil is M1 TDT.
Iron 31 48
Chromium 2 2
Nickel 1 1
AL 7 8
CO 3 4
Lead 0 1
Silicon 4 6
Sodium 3 4
Potassium 4 2
Moly 1 0
Boron 35 33
Magnesium 810 809
Calcium 1266 1303
Barium 1 0
Phosphorous 1027 986
Zinc 1230 1204
Fuel <1% <1%
Soot 0.4% 0.%%
Water <.1
Visc. @100C 14.6 14.7
TBN 4.22 4.49
Oxidation 13 15
Nitration 22 25 (This was highlighted by the lab)
I don't know why the TBN increased nor why the nitration is so high. Doesn't it have to do with EGR? I have 72K miles on my Golf and the oil has not been changed; I was hoping to go to a 15K OCI.
 

JB05

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Location
Il.USA
TDI
Golf,2005,anthracite blue
I did some research on the nitration, both in my lab literature as well as some on line and came up with this: http://www.omnitek.nl/en/methods/chemical/nitration.htm. The lab I use is Oil Analyzer's and they both say the same thing, but no mention of EGR, but more so for natural gas engines. In viewing other UOA's, I notice that the Blackstone lab does not include this nitration nor TBN. I know the latter is an extra charge.
 
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mountain lion

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2011
Location
Florida
TDI
04 Jetta TDI
Date: 02/06/2011
Engine Code: BEW
Miles/Hours oil: 2560
Miles/unit: 81400
Oil Type: Castrol SLX 5w30 505.01
Fe Iron: 35
Cr Chromium: 1
Al Aluminum: 5
Cu Copper: 3
Pb Lead: 1
Sn Tin: 2
Ni Nickel: 1
Mn Manganese: 0
Molybdenum 2

Additional Data
Na Sodium 5
B Boron 2
Zn Zinc 871
Ba Barium 0
Ca Calcium 1980
Mg Magnesium 90
Phosphorus 771
K Potassium 8
Silicon 3
SUS Viscosity @ 210F 65.0
cSt Viscosity @ 100C 11.62
Flashpoint 405F
Fuel % 0.5
Antifreeze % 0
Water % 0
Insolubles % 0.3






Date: 05/11/2011
Engine Code: BEW
Miles/Hours oil: 8710
Miles/unit: 90110
Oil Type: M1 TDT 5W-40
Fe Iron: 27
Cr Chromium: 1
Al Aluminum: 6
Cu Copper: 3
Pb Lead: 1
Sn Tin: 4
Ni Nickel: 1
Mn Manganese: 0
Molybdenum 1

Additional Data
Na Sodium 4
B Boron 36
Zn Zinc 1083
Ba Barium 0
K Potassium 0
Ca Calcium 1278
Mg Magnesium 762
Phosphorus 1083
Silicon 3
SUS Viscosity @ 210F 70.1
cSt Viscosity @ 100C 12.97
Flashpoint 430F
Fuel % <0.5
Antifreeze % 0
Water % 0
Insolubles % 0.3
 

pawel

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2008
Location
Naugatuck, CT
TDI
'09 TDI 6 MT, Platinum Gray Metallic, Anthracite Interior
I for one, did not do that. So when you compare factory fill from one (ie.,) to one 09 TDI against another, against another, etc., the conclusion was drawn that wear patterns were very similar and almost across the board. The nexus here being 10,000 miles OCI's. I think more than just I are waiting for 2009-2011 engines UOA results with 50,000 miles on up.
Look at my UOAs. the last one was done at 90k miles.
 

GibMir1

Veteran Member
Joined
May 6, 2007
Location
Chicagoland
TDI
06 Jetta w/DSG Grenade
2006 tdi brm

Date: 5/23/11
Engine Code: BRM
Miles/Hours oil: 10810
Miles/unit: 81,290
Oil Type: Mobil TDT 5w-40
Fe Iron: 23
Cr Chromium: 1
Al Aluminum: 6
Cu Copper: 3
Pb Lead: 1
Sn Tin: 0
Ni Nickel: 1
Mn Manganese: 0
By-Pass: no
Top off Oil: .7 quart
 

mountain lion

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2011
Location
Florida
TDI
04 Jetta TDI
Date: 02/06/2011
Engine Code: BEW
Miles/Hours oil: 2560
Miles/unit: 81400
Oil Type: Castrol SLX 5w30 505.01
Fe Iron: 35
Cr Chromium: 1
Al Aluminum: 5
Cu Copper: 3
Pb Lead: 1
Sn Tin: 2
Ni Nickel: 1
Mn Manganese: 0
Molybdenum 2

Additional Data
Na Sodium 5
B Boron 2
Zn Zinc 871
Ba Barium 0
Ca Calcium 1980
Mg Magnesium 90
Phosphorus 771
K Potassium 8
Silicon 3
SUS Viscosity @ 210F 65.0
cSt Viscosity @ 100C 11.62
Flashpoint 405F
Fuel % 0.5
Antifreeze % 0
Water % 0
Insolubles % 0.3






Date: 05/11/2011
Engine Code: BEW
Miles/Hours oil: 8710
Miles/unit: 90110
Oil Type: M1 TDT 5W-40
Fe Iron: 27
Cr Chromium: 1
Al Aluminum: 6
Cu Copper: 3
Pb Lead: 1
Sn Tin: 4
Ni Nickel: 1
Mn Manganese: 0
Molybdenum 1

Additional Data
Na Sodium 4
B Boron 36
Zn Zinc 1083
Ba Barium 0
K Potassium 0
Ca Calcium 1278
Mg Magnesium 762
Phosphorus 1083
Silicon 3
SUS Viscosity @ 210F 70.1
cSt Viscosity @ 100C 12.97
Flashpoint 430F
Fuel % <0.5
Antifreeze % 0
Water % 0
Insolubles % 0.3


Date: 09/05/2011
Engine Code: BEW
Miles/Hours oil: 10000
Miles/unit: 100110
Oil Type: Mobil 1 TDT 5w-40
Fe Iron: 23
Cr Chromium: 1
Al Aluminum: 5
Cu Copper: 2
Pb Lead: 0
Sn Tin: 0
Ni Nickel: 1
Mn Manganese: 0
Molybdenum 4

Additional Data
Na Sodium 3
B Boron 28
Zn Zinc 1035
Ba Barium 0
Ca Calcium 1146
Mg Magnesium 798
Phosphorus 942
K Potassium 5
Silicon 3
SUS Viscosity @ 210F 78.0
cSt Viscosity @ 100C 15.03
Flashpoint 450F
Fuel % <0.5
Antifreeze % 0
Water % 0
Insolubles % 0.4




Date: 12/26/2011
Engine Code: BEW
Miles/Hours oil: 9935
Miles/unit: 11045
Oil Type: Mobil 1 TDT 5w-40
Fe Iron: 20
Cr Chromium: 1
Al Aluminum: 4
Cu Copper: 1
Pb Lead: 0
Sn Tin: 0
Ni Nickel: 0
Mn Manganese: 0
Molybdenum 2

Additional Data
Na Sodium 4
B Boron 58
Zn Zinc 1342
Ba Barium 0
Ca Calcium 1321
Mg Magnesium 984
Phosphorus 1127
K Potassium 2
Silicon 3
SUS Viscosity @ 210F 69.7
cSt Viscosity @ 100C 12.88
Flashpoint 450F
Fuel % <0.5
Antifreeze % 0
Water % 0
Insolubles % 0.4
 
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mobhitmn

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2011
Location
Lehigh County, PA
TDI
2013 Passat 6mt SE
2010 jsw 2.0

Date: 12./03/2011
Engine Code: CJAA
Miles/Hours oil: 10,295
Miles/unit: 30,399
Oil Type: Castrol SLX Professional LL03 5w30
Fe Iron: 34
Cr Chromium: 1
Al Aluminum: 13
Cu Copper: 8
Pb Lead: 0
Sn Tin: 2
Ni Nickel: 1
Mn Manganese: 1
By-Pass: no
Top off Oil:0.5 liters
 

642 XAG

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 12, 2011
Location
Fort Collins
TDI
2009 Jetta TDI, 2013 Passat TDI
Date: 1/18/13
Engine Code: CBEA
Miles/Hours oil: 10,000
Miles/unit: 70,000
Oil Type: Pennzoil Ultra Euro L 5w-30
Fe Iron: 41
Cr Chromium: 1
Al Aluminum: 9
Cu Copper: 5
Pb Lead: 0
Sn Tin: 0
Ni Nickel: 1
Mn Manganese: 1
By-Pass: no
Top off Oil: no
 

tikal

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2001
Location
Southeast Texas
TDI
2004 Passat Wagon (chainless + 5 MT + GDE tune)
2004 Passat with re-profiled Stage 2 Colt cam

Date: 9/4/14
Engine Code: BHW
Miles/Hours oil: 8,936
Miles/unit: 150,053
Oil Type: Schaeffer S9000 5W-40
Fe Iron: 28
Cr Chromium: 1
Al Aluminum: 5
Cu Copper: 5
Pb Lead: 0
Sn Tin: 0
Ni Nickel: 0
Mn Manganese: 1
By-Pass: no
Top off Oil: 2/3 quart
 

jcaimhigher

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2004
TDI
2002, galactic blue
Calculated by dividing total wear metals by miles in thousands. The national average is 6.538 ppm total wear metals, less Mn and Ni. This is based on 51 ppm total / 7800 miles by Blackstone.

TDI Club Ave : 6.952 ppm. ~~~~~~ Club Ave. OCI : 9981 mi. 8/25/09

  1. Odinsjetta 05/17/09 ALH Total MC3 1.667
  2. VATechTDI 04/23/09 ALH Rotella T CJ4 1.782
  3. aja8888 06/24/08 ALH Rotella T CI4+ 2.252
  4. Braga_Dub 03/26/08 ALH Elf DID 505.01 2.500
  5. Eb2143 06/01/09 ALH Mobil TDT CI4+ 2.579
  6. Revolutionary_mind 01/08/09 BEW Mobil TDT CI4+ 2.674
  7. phaser 08/27/08 BEW Elf LLX 504/507 2.716
  8. MikeB60 02/15/08 ALH Mobil TDT CI4+ 2.783
  9. truman 04/24/09 ALH Rotella T CI4+ 2.857
  10. Bob_Fout 07/19/09 ALH Amsoil DEO CJ4 2.947
  11. oEo 07/18/09 BEW Total MC3 3.036
Is anyone updating this still? I can add my info but I'd love to see if the data has changed a whole lot.
 
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