Dont let the door

We will loose many members as buyback urge's pickin up steam. Web forms getting filled out, cars mothballed etc.

Yet, would be nice to still get together and reminisce about days of driving fun, fuel-efficient cars.

Alumni forum ?

Very true, but many will return depending on the fate of the TDI moving forward...

The sad part will be loosing so much knowledge and experience as people move onto other vehicles.

If it wasn't because I need this money for my family, I would keep my car, I spent so much time caring for it and it will be sad to see it go to an unknown future.

It's "lose" not loose. Loose is something that doesn't fit tightly.

This is a forum for people who own and drive TDIs. Once you stop your experience and knowledge is quickly obsolete. I'm sure there are some good people here that will be going away once they turn in their TDIs. But perhaps they'll be helpful to folks on forums for their next vehicle. And of course if they decide to keep their cars we'd love to continue to hear from them.

Em aint gonna fit, definitely not tightly, here, after parting with TDIs

I'm not going anywhere, and neither are my diesels. I just hope the new one I have ordered actually gets BUILT soon.


On a positive note, for the most part, our CR TDI customers here are simply proceeding with a 'business as usual' attitude, and are not intending to part ways with their cars. I just put a new set of tires on one yesterday along with its 160k mile service, doing a DPF today on a well cared for 143k mile car (his 3rd TDI over the years, the previous two both being totaled in crashes with deer in the 300k+ mile range), and I have a 120k service (including the timing belt) scheduled for tomorrow. Our medical courier fleet that has a whole bunch of Sportwagons is also continuing to service their cars same as always, however they have given up waiting for new TDIs and have ordered a bunch of those little fugly Chevy crossdresser things instead. They did snag a handful of 2015 Sportwagons before last September, though.

If a diesel is in our future, I'll be around. At this point, that future seems dubious.

I have friends with a 2010 that just had the timing belt service completed. They love the car, are pleasantly surprised that they can receive the restitution when they have it fixed. They plan to continue to drive the car unless I they can find a leftover 2015.

IndigoBlueWagon said:

I have friends with a 2010 that just had the timing belt service completed. They love the car, are pleasantly surprised that they can receive the restitution when they have it fixed. They plan to continue to drive the car unless I they can find a leftover 2015.

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We'll still be doing the buyback, and if we could get into a low miles CPO '15 Passat, that's a possibility. This is our first diesel, and our experience over the past three years has been very good, so I'd like to stay with them, if possible. Unfortunately, I think the 2015 model year is going to be the end of the road for VW diesels in the U.S.

"Don't let the door hit you on the way out. 'Cause I don't want ass prints on my new door!"

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I apologize for going slightly off topic, but wanted to ask Oilhammer what he sees as far as HPFP failures go. My 2009 JSW TDI has 123k with original fuel pump and DPF. Pretty sure I'm going for the buyback but I do love the car. About what would the DPF replacement cost be? I did have the timing belt service done at 120k. Thanks in advance and again sorry for the diversion.

I'd prefer to keep my '13, but the buyback offer of about what I paid for it new less the sales tax is hard to resist. I'm watching the local dealers inventories of impounded new TDIs to see what's available should EPA unimpound them, and staying ready to pounce on one if the price is attractive. My '03 TDI of course will be around till it rusts away.

doodahman said:

I apologize for going slightly off topic, but wanted to ask Oilhammer what he sees as far as HPFP failures go. My 2009 JSW TDI has 123k with original fuel pump and DPF. Pretty sure I'm going for the buyback but I do love the car. About what would the DPF replacement cost be? I did have the timing belt service done at 120k. Thanks in advance and again sorry for the diversion.

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I have only ever seen four failed HPFPs on CR TDIs, all of which were repaired at no cost by Volkswagen/Audi (one of them was an A3). Seeing how many CR TDIs we see coming through our shop (there are four here just today alone), I'd place the HPFP failure as a pretty remote possibility, but I know it can happen and it can be expensive... BUT... I have replaced a couple on Sprinters, and in both cases it just required a new pump and filter, blew the fuel rail and pipes out, and those vans are still on the road today. One is closing in on 500k miles. So I am not really sure the ENTIRE fuel system needs to be REPLACED on a VAG CR TDI if the HPFP fails. I think you could clean the post-pump side out, install a new filter, and probably be okay.

I see far more DPF failures. As I said in my above post, I did one today, and one of the other ones that came in since then also needs one. And I have probably a half dozen other customers that need them but have been kicking the can down the road so to speak in anticipation of what a "fix" may or may not be, or are planning to delete them if they live in an area (Illinois) that they can get away with such action. But really, unless you have a 2009, the DPF is not *that* big of a deal, and with the 2009s we've been successful in finding used 2010+ parts to install on them.

I really don't think we are going to lose much by way of knowledge or experience.

Knowledge and experience wouldn't lead people to give back an unreplaceable car, and to those that do...well we'll see.

Anybody that thinks a gasser can come close to a diesel in fuel mileage terms...well again I have nothing positive to say haha.

If you can only get high 30's in a tdi, your driving style will totally prevent you from getting anywhere in the 30's in a gasser. Drive a diesel hard, end up in the 30's, drive a gasser hard, especially a mazda (the brand I keep hearing praise for) and you will be in the teens.

TOPH R said:

If you can only get high 30's in a tdi, your driving style will totally prevent you from getting anywhere in the 30's in a gasser. Drive a diesel hard, end up in the 30's, drive a gasser hard, especially a mazda (the brand I keep hearing praise for) and you will be in the teens.

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Toph you're right on all counts. But this is especially true for those of us who tend to drive in a spirited fashion. I can drive my ALH 80+ on the highway, accelerate hard, sit in traffic, run the A/C, and still get 50 MPG. Did it two weeks ago. I bet in a 1.8T I'd be lucky to get over 25.

So if people want to take a 50% FE hit and lose the torque and driveability that makes TDIs so much fun for a few thousand dollars, so be it. Cars are an expense any way you slice it. Why not drive one you like?

IndigoBlueWagon said:

Toph you're right on all counts. But this is especially true for those of us who tend to drive in a spirited fashion. I can drive my ALH 80+ on the highway, accelerate hard, sit in traffic, run the A/C, and still get 50 MPG. Did it two weeks ago. I bet in a 1.8T I'd be lucky to get over 25.
So if people want to take a 50% FE hit and lose the torque and driveability that makes TDIs so much fun for a few thousand dollars, so be it. Cars are an expense any way you slice it. Why not drive one you like?

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The thing pushing me towards a buyback along with many others is the cost of fuel. I think if gasoline was still close to four dollars I wouldn't even consider selling back the tdi. What sucks is I bought the car and gas immediately got cheap and has stayed cheap meaning the BE point on the diesel is more miles than I would probably be keeping the car either way. The greatest single thing about the car is the great mileage cruising at high speeds, however my commute sadly ends up being a mix of stop and go most days. Just another reason why I may not be benefiting from the tdi as much as I could be under different circumstances.

I have never driven diesels to save money. I drive them because I like the engines, the engineering, how they sound, the torque, the power when tuned, and especially the range. Last 10+ fills on my wagon have been over 750 miles. It's the opposite of an EV. No wasted time refueling on trips, less standing in the cold or heat.

My '78 Rabbit diesel was new during the second fuel crisis. I was living in LA. Everyone was in fuel lines. Not me. First, diesel was exempt from odd/even days. Second, even with the 10 gallon tank on the Rabbit I had good range. My gf (later my wife) could go anywhere we wanted while others were stuck hoarding fuel for their commutes. That feeling of freedom to go anywhere you want without worry has stayed with me to this day.

If you truly love diesels this buyback would be a non-event. You bought the car, I assume you could afford it. If you take the buyback most likely you're not replacing it with a diesel. That's fine, but don't lament not having one. You're making a choice.

I really like my TDI, but since I took it from my wife it gets much less mileage and therefore I think I am better with gas. Sorry to see the Dynaudio go, love the sound.

IndigoBlueWagon said:

I have never driven diesels to save money. I drive them because I like the engines, the engineering, how they sound, the torque, the power when tuned, and especially the range. Last 10+ fills on my wagon have been over 750 miles. It's the opposite of an EV. No wasted time refueling on trips, less standing in the cold or heat.

My '78 Rabbit diesel was new during the second fuel crisis. I was living in LA. Everyone was in fuel lines. Not me. First, diesel was exempt from odd/even days. Second, even with the 10 gallon tank on the Rabbit I had good range. My gf (later my wife) could go anywhere we wanted while others were stuck hoarding fuel for their commutes. That feeling of freedom to go anywhere you want without worry has stayed with me to this day.

If you truly love diesels this buyback would be a non-event. You bought the car, I assume you could afford it. If you take the buyback most likely you're not replacing it with a diesel. That's fine, but don't lament not having one. You're making a choice.

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Nail. Head. Hit it.

I wasn't around for such fuel crises, but the feeling of freedom due to the massive range on a small amount of fuel definitely sticks with me. As do the driving dynamics. And they've only been getting better. Unfortunately they are also getting more expensive and complex to fix with their emissions controls components...

I hope we don't go back to being a small, fringe crowd of fanatics, but I can understand some who are used to the relatively low maintenance costs of Japanese appliances not liking having to be a little more pro-active with maintenance.

IndigoBlueWagon said:

I have never driven diesels to save money. I drive them because I like the engines, the engineering, how they sound, the torque, the power when tuned, and especially the range. Last 10+ fills on my wagon have been over 750 miles. It's the opposite of an EV. No wasted time refueling on trips, less standing in the cold or heat.

My '78 Rabbit diesel was new during the second fuel crisis. I was living in LA. Everyone was in fuel lines. Not me. First, diesel was exempt from odd/even days. Second, even with the 10 gallon tank on the Rabbit I had good range. My gf (later my wife) could go anywhere we wanted while others were stuck hoarding fuel for their commutes. That feeling of freedom to go anywhere you want without worry has stayed with me to this day.

If you truly love diesels this buyback would be a non-event. You bought the car, I assume you could afford it. If you take the buyback most likely you're not replacing it with a diesel. That's fine, but don't lament not having one. You're making a choice.

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There are a lot of us who are't diehard diesel fans, not VW fans (or non fans), who really like the cars but are faced with a "business" decision at this point.

For me, when I bought it I was in a multi-state sales territory and driving 100-200 miles per day. Now, I have a 20 mile roundtrip commute. I still love the MPG I get but it isn't as important as it was.

All that said though, taking emotions out of it I don't see how I keep the car and have it be "wise." By the time the car has to be sold back, I will have owned it for 6 to almost 7 years. I'll have 70-75k on it, and if I drive the miles I think I will I'll be able to sell it back for approx. $21k.

I get that I'm making a choice and I get that I'm driving a car now that can't be replicated (obviously, they cheated to get us here). But, taking emotions out of it, given my situation (and all of our situations are different) it would be idiotic not to take the buyback.

Oil hammer
Not sure how you can say a cracked DPF is not really a big deal, I have a 2011 mine cracked , dealer wanted 2600 to replace it, my trusted Indie said about $1700 which I consider a pretty big repair, I have 127,000 when my cracked.
FYI when my HPFP went , nothing else went I was able to drive it to VW and they only replaced the pump.
I was leaning towards the fix but the Cracked DPF will be sending me me to a buyback, if they sell the 15 or 16's TDI I may buy that if I get a deal.

oilhammer said:

I have only ever seen four failed HPFPs on CR TDIs, all of which were repaired at no cost by Volkswagen/Audi (one of them was an A3). Seeing how many CR TDIs we see coming through our shop (there are four here just today alone), I'd place the HPFP failure as a pretty remote possibility, but I know it can happen and it can be expensive... BUT... I have replaced a couple on Sprinters, and in both cases it just required a new pump and filter, blew the fuel rail and pipes out, and those vans are still on the road today. One is closing in on 500k miles. So I am not really sure the ENTIRE fuel system needs to be REPLACED on a VAG CR TDI if the HPFP fails. I think you could clean the post-pump side out, install a new filter, and probably be okay.
I see far more DPF failures. As I said in my above post, I did one today, and one of the other ones that came in since then also needs one. And I have probably a half dozen other customers that need them but have been kicking the can down the road so to speak in anticipation of what a "fix" may or may not be, or are planning to delete them if they live in an area (Illinois) that they can get away with such action. But really, unless you have a 2009, the DPF is not *that* big of a deal, and with the 2009s we've been successful in finding used 2010+ parts to install on them.

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There's a door...use it.

I can't wait for the tone of the forum to go back to people who love/are enthusiastic about their cars...

Maybe if a bunch of people wanted somewhere to ***** and moan, they could make their own forum for that?

hondatech and mazdaforum come to mind?

Car that can't be replicated?? Well there probably won't be a fix for the cars and they will get grandfathered, or if there were it might cost 1-2 mpg, which still puts the cr tdi LIGHT YEARS ahead of anything that runs on gas, that can be beat on, and still achieve stellar fuel mileage!

Sheesh

doodahman said:

I About what would the DPF replacement cost be?

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Fox Valley VW in Schaumburg IL = USD 2700

Well, I also love VWs. I can't easily count how many I've owned, but its a lot. I grew up riding around with parents and three bothers in a Microbus. And the first car I bought myself, in 1973, was a '57 Bug with 43K on it. I paid $250 for it. As an aside, imagine what that would be worth today, along with our '66 19 window Bus.

I owned 3 Bugs, co-opted our family's '71 Bus for a couple years, then switched to diesel in '78 with a my first new car, a Rabbit L Diesel. I think I've owned 10 or 12 TDIs. If I couldn't buy another diesel I'd get a 1.4T Jetta or 1.8T GSW.

VW makes cars that feel much more expensive than they are, starting with the air-cooled Beetles. And when cared for they last. It still amazes me that I can get in a 300K mile plus VW and it drives like it has 50K on it. My son frequently asks what he'll replace his Golf with because he wonders how much longer it'll go (it has 313K on it). Everything works, it's almost completely rust-free, the interior looks good. His biggest concern is that he doesn't want to give up a car that's a pleasure to drive every day. Me and my children have totaled 5 VWs. No injuries for any of us.

VW is an excellent auto builder. We probably see the worst of them in the US, but it's still better than most everything else. I've owned Volvos, Toyotas, Hondas, a Ford, Mercedes, Audi, even a Kia and a Peugeot (that wasn't bad either). But VW is the best, in my humble opinion. You guys who are walking away are going to miss it.

Testimonial over.

IndigoBlueWagon said:

I have never driven diesels to save money. I drive them because I like the engines, the engineering, how they sound, the torque, the power when tuned, and especially the range. Last 10+ fills on my wagon have been over 750 miles. It's the opposite of an EV. No wasted time refueling on trips, less standing in the cold or heat.

My '78 Rabbit diesel was new during the second fuel crisis. I was living in LA. Everyone was in fuel lines. Not me. First, diesel was exempt from odd/even days. Second, even with the 10 gallon tank on the Rabbit I had good range. My gf (later my wife) could go anywhere we wanted while others were stuck hoarding fuel for their commutes. That feeling of freedom to go anywhere you want without worry has stayed with me to this day.

If you truly love diesels this buyback would be a non-event. You bought the car, I assume you could afford it. If you take the buyback most likely you're not replacing it with a diesel. That's fine, but don't lament not having one. You're making a choice.

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Excellent post. EXCELLENT.

seth1065 said:

Oil hammer
Not sure how you can say a cracked DPF is not really a big deal, I have a 2011 mine cracked , dealer wanted 2600 to replace it, my trusted Indie said about $1700 which I consider a pretty big repair, I have 127,000 when my cracked.
FYI when my HPFP went , nothing else went I was able to drive it to VW and they only replaced the pump.
I was leaning towards the fix but the Cracked DPF will be sending me me to a buyback, if they sell the 15 or 16's TDI I may buy that if I get a deal.

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$1700 repair on a 127k mile car is not a big deal in my book. I can show you FAR worse ones every day if you like. I have a Nissan in the shop here that has had over $10k in repairs on it in the last couple years. There is a Grand Cherokee getting transmission #3 installed in it across the shop from me right now. We installed a new catalyst in a Pontiac Vibe (Toyota Volz/Matrix clone) yesterday and that was over a grand and it didn't even have 100k on it yet. And don't get me started on those horrific GM crossdresser pieces of crap... the Acadia, Traverse, Enclave, Outlook, etc. If it isn't the water pumps blowing up out of the blue with no warning (and they are buried in there) the timing chain (which are on their FIFTH redesign) are exploding, or the power steering racks that leak, or the engine mounts that constantly fail and then rub holes in refrigerant lines... all the while in a vehicle that is not only an awful driving machine, but one that struggles to get 18 MPG.

Cars break. They just do. Some more than others. Some repairs are worse than others. And in some cases statistics are against certain models.

Now in the case of the CR's cracked DPF problem, I feel they (VAG) should have done some sort of warranty extension on them, because they KNOW they have a problem with them. They have a very clear and non-cryptic TSB about the problem. And many of them failed within what I would consider a short lifespan even if they did manage to go beyond the initial emissions equipment warranty.

But as I have to keep reminding my father who complains any time anything ever breaks on anything ever, the manufacturers simply cannot have a bumper to bumper warranty on everything forever, nor can they have updated redesigned or improved components on everything forever. If they did that, your Jetta would cost $50k or more.

After turning it in, my wife will likely be back in a VW and a TDI assuming they continue to make them. If all goes as planned, I will turn it in mid 2018. At that point, it will be 3 1/2 years old, have 55-60k miles and I will get my purchase price returned. If I keep it past the turn in date, it is going to lose around 50% of its value in a short time window. Financially, it is too enticing to not take advantage of the buyback. This more than I ever expected to get out of her VW. In particular, I wasn't expecting for the buyback price to be frozen in time.

My opinion (unsubstantiated) is that the 2O36 fix was to reduce EGTs so DPFs wouldn't crack. Just a hypothesis.

dgoodhue said:

After turning it in, my wife will likely be back in a VW and a TDI assuming they continue to make them. If all goes as planned, I will turn it in mid 2018. At that point, it will be 3 1/2 years old, have 55-60k miles and I will get my purchase price returned. If I keep it past the turn in date, it is going to lose around 50% of its value in a short time window. Financially, it is too enticing to not take advantage of the buyback. This more than I ever expected to get out of her VW. In particular, I wasn't expecting for the buyback price to be frozen in time.

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That's kinda how I feel. Take VW's fraud out of it and think like this. If someone comes to you in mid 2018 and offers what the buyback is... you would be crazy not to take it for a lot of us (older cars, particularly average to low mileage). For me, 65k-75k on it at that time, it will be 6+ years old and depending on the mileage I can get $21 to almost $23k depending on the mileage.

It has nothing to do with how awesome the car is. That's too good to pass up for what essentially is a daily driver level car.

I would be crazy to not accept the $11,800 they are going to pay for my '09 with 142k miles. On top of that it was a poor design (HPFP that contaminates whole system upon failure, and single piece DPF/ Cat) which is expensive to repair. To pay dealer price for HPFP replacement would cost more than it's worth.

If VW made a TDI equivalent to a Chevy Equinox, or would make me a good deal on a Q5 TDI I would absolutely consider it. Since they don't and they won't, my replacement vehicle will likely be the Chevy.