What could be changed on the preliminary proposal?

MBQ · Jul 24, 2016

I am wondering if the judge will listen to what a lot of owners are complaining about how to calculate the base value of the buyback, i.e. Nada Trade in value vs retail value.

Will he clarify how to define elgible owners/lessees, and eligible vehicles? Will buyback/fix compensation be totally off the table for vehicles purchased after Jun 28th?

2015golfwagon · Jul 24, 2016

I doubt he will change much, could be wrong though. I'd think he would leave on the table buyback of vehicles purchased after June 28th as they want these cars off the road. Keep in mind though any vehicle purchased after june 28th will have to split the buyback money in half with a seller who files claim they sold the car between last September and June 28th.

MrSprdSheet · Jul 24, 2016

MBQ said:
I am wondering if the judge will listen to what a lot of owners are complaining about how to calculate the base value of the buyback, i.e. Nada Trade in value vs retail value.

They could scrap the buyback formula all together, or make it secondary to a Bill of Sale. The fraud is associated with a transaction, not Kelly Blue Book. It isn't that hard to make VW liable for what people demonstrate the transaction cost them. Then they can deduct for age/mileage, add sales taxes, if they want to.

DanB36 · Jul 25, 2016

2015golfwagon said:
Keep in mind though any vehicle purchased after june 28th will have to split the buyback money in half with a seller who files claim they sold the car between last September and June 28th.

I think this is the intent of the settlement, but it isn't clear in the documents, and should be clarified.

bring · Jul 25, 2016

MBQ said:
I am wondering if the judge will listen to what a lot of owners are complaining about how to calculate the base value of the buyback, i.e. Nada Trade in value vs retail value.

A lot of owners are complaining?

500k impacted cars were sold here in the US - just how many complaints represent "a lot" in your mind?

I am going to hazard a guess that there weren't "a lot" of complaints, %wise

MBQ · Jul 25, 2016

bring said:
A lot of owners are complaining?

500k impacted cars were sold here in the US - just how many complaints represent "a lot" in your mind?

I am going to hazard a guess that there weren't "a lot" of complaints, %wise

Let's say 20% of them are complaining, that's close to 100,000 owners.

I know you are not, off course

bring · Jul 25, 2016

So you think 100k owners complained? You're kidding, right?

Edit - I think something as small as 2% is being generous

dropnosky · Jul 25, 2016

MBQ said:
I am wondering if the judge will listen to what a lot of owners are complaining about how to calculate the base value of the buyback, i.e. Nada Trade in value vs retail value.

Will he clarify how to define elgible owners/lessees, and eligible vehicles? Will buyback/fix compensation be totally off the table for vehicles purchased after Jun 28th?

the real trick will be if a judge or a team of lawyers are willing to sift through the legitimate concerns and comments like yours above, mixed in with unreasonable complaints, especially if they are in the same letter.

I am willing to bet a lot of letters will be tossed unread for that reason.

autdi · Jul 25, 2016

2015golfwagon said:
I doubt he will change much, could be wrong though. I'd think he would leave on the table buyback of vehicles purchased after June 28th as they want these cars off the road. Keep in mind though any vehicle purchased after june 28th will have to split the buyback money in half with a seller who files claim they sold the car between last September and June 28th.

No, the settlement is buy after 6/28 you get 50%, plus your proportional part of the other 50% that goes unclaimed by sellers. So the other 50% for your car has nothing to do with if your cars seller does anything, but rather the number in general of sellers that file a claim.

DanB36 · Jul 25, 2016

autdi said:
No, the settlement is buy after 6/28 you get 50%, plus your proportional part of the other 50% that goes unclaimed by sellers. So the other 50% for your car has nothing to do with if your cars seller does anything, but rather the number in general of sellers that file a claim.

The FTC Consent Order states differently, as you already know.

jims2321 · Jul 25, 2016

dropnosky said:
the real trick will be if a judge or a team of lawyers are willing to sift through the legitimate concerns and comments like yours above, mixed in with unreasonable complaints, especially if they are in the same letter.

I am willing to bet a lot of letters will be tossed unread for that reason.

Fortunately, the court and lawyers have to look at all of them. It's part of the court process, and a legal requirement. That is usually why CAS take years, the process is chock full of steps that have to be followed. The fact that this case is moving as quickly as it has is amazing.

RollingCoal · Jul 25, 2016

The one thing lingering in my mind is compensation for owners who totaled their cars. I feel like they have been victimized by this ordeal in a measurable way having received a value for their loss that reflects the dropped value due to the scandal. I feel bad for these folks and feel it would be fair if they received the difference in what their buyback would have been and the payout they got from their insurer. I'm not hopeful it will get address though.

Philpug · Jul 25, 2016

I stated my concerns in but I don't think we will see one change.

RollingCoal · Jul 25, 2016

I know this has been stated before but does the official buy back estimate get posted tomorrow if the preliminary approval is signed off on?

bring · Jul 25, 2016

I assumed after tomorrow we would be able to enter our VIN and mileage on the VW site, and out spits a $ amt

Philpug · Jul 25, 2016

RollingCoal said:
I know this has been stated before but does the official buy back estimate get posted tomorrow if the preliminary approval is signed off on?

If so, we should see a leak any hour today.

Rico567 · Jul 25, 2016

bring said:
I assumed after tomorrow we would be able to enter our VIN and mileage on the VW site, and out spits a $ amt

From what I've seen since September of last year, I'm not assuming a single thing. If a person has had little involvement with the legal system, as hard as it may be to believe, it works on a "reset the clock" system.
There is a plaintiff, a defendant, and a judge. Any of those three can have a paperwork glitch, a delay in a deposition or whatever, the judge's wife has an unexpected medical appointment and he has to be there. Just make something up, and that essentially takes the timeline that was originally given and pushes it out. Here in Illinois, nominally a defendant has 60 days BY LAW to come to trial.....but this is almost never the case in reality. It can very easily turn into at least a year.

dropnosky · Jul 26, 2016

Rico567 said:
From what I've seen since September of last year, I'm not assuming a single thing. If a person has had little involvement with the legal system, as hard as it may be to believe, it works on a "reset the clock" system.
There is a plaintiff, a defendant, and a judge. Any of those three can have a paperwork glitch, a delay in a deposition or whatever, the judge's wife has an unexpected medical appointment and he has to be there. Just make something up, and that essentially takes the timeline that was originally given and pushes it out. Here in Illinois, nominally a defendant has 60 days BY LAW to come to trial.....but this is almost never the case in reality. It can very easily turn into at least a year.

X2. For example ive been in a court battle to evict someone, all said and done it took 7 months with i think at least 15 artificial delays from weather to diarrhea.

2015vwgolfdiesel · Jul 26, 2016

bring said:
I assumed after tomorrow we would be able to enter our VIN and mileage on the VW site, and out spits a $ amt

It's not working yet -- 7-26-2016 6:01 CST

DanB36 · Jul 26, 2016

2015vwgolfdiesel said:
It's not working yet -- 7-26-2016 6:01 CST

I would assume this would be after the hearing at which the judge gives preliminary approval. I don't remember what time that is, but the court is in CA, so I wouldn't expect for a few hours at least.

2015vwgolfdiesel · Jul 26, 2016

DanB36 said:
I would assume this would be after the hearing at which the judge gives preliminary approval. I don't remember what time that is, but the court is in CA, so I wouldn't expect for a few hours at least.

Still not "live"

12:09 CST

fredthe · Jul 26, 2016

Preliminary approval has been granted. Now will come the comment period, which might result in changes.

da_jokker · Jul 26, 2016

fredthe said:
Preliminary approval has been granted. Now will come the comment period, which might result in changes.

Yeah it kind of sucks... So if nothing changes and we all just suck it up, seems like in Oct many of us will be able to wash our hands of VW.

However if people complain enough that actually warrant any settlement adjustments, seems like VW would have a right to argue and thus prolonging everything.

Meanwhile we are stuck with dual car payments, or a car parked for it's protection.

Of course some will just keep on driving so it doesn't matter to them.

dropnosky · Jul 26, 2016

da_jokker said:
Yeah it kind of sucks... So if nothing changes and we all just suck it up, seems like in Oct many of us will be able to wash our hands of VW.

However if people complain enough that actually warrant any settlement adjustments, seems like VW would have a right to argue and thus prolonging everything.

Meanwhile we are stuck with dual car payments, or a car parked for it's protection.

Of course some will just keep on driving so it doesn't matter to them.

that is the definition of the legal process, everyone gets their say. VW more than any owner is certainly anxious to have this whole incident past them forever. I would think they wouldn't be the source of any kind of controllable delay through the courts.

The judge playing golf with his drinking buddies, thats something else.

PeteZ06 · Jul 26, 2016

It seems like on the initial proposal we had until Sept 2018 to make a decision.. and now its June 2019.. Can someone please confirm this?

autdi · Jul 26, 2016

PeteZ06 said:
It seems like on the initial proposal we had until Sept 2018 to make a decision.. and now its June 2019.. Can someone please confirm this?

Not based on the presentation from PSC of the CAS, still ends 12/31/18, with 9/1/18 being the last date to request a turn-in.

http://www.cand.uscourts.gov/filelibrary/2798/PSC_Preliminary_Approval_Presentation.pdf

PeteZ06 · Jul 26, 2016

autdi said:
Not based on the presentation from PSC of the CAS, still ends 12/31/18, with 9/1/18 being the last date to request a turn-in.

http://www.cand.uscourts.gov/filelibrary/2798/PSC_Preliminary_Approval_Presentation.pdf

Thanks for the link! Good info there. You're right.. as per page 10.. Sept 2018 is when we need to decide by. Too bad.. I thought I had another year.

autdi · Jul 27, 2016

Down on page 22 of the transcript is the following:

The second consideration is whether the Settlement contains any obvious deficiencies. The Court finds no glaring concerns at this time.

It's an uphill battle now. The settlement ignores significant, costly components of changing cars, none of which are addressed.

wbclassics · Jul 27, 2016

bring said:
A lot of owners are complaining?

500k impacted cars were sold here in the US - just how many complaints represent "a lot" in your mind?

I am going to hazard a guess that there weren't "a lot" of complaints, %wise

Precisely why VW will continue to act arrogant towards consumers.

VW, like most corporations, knows that the vast majority of the public is uninformed and lazy. I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of casual TDI owners comfortably believe the media's portrayal that this is a great settlement...

Carphuntin_god · Jul 29, 2016

I'm sure i missed something... i thought the comment period was until like 9/16/2016... ? How are they presenting this information as "good?"

What could be changed on the preliminary proposal?

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