Any news on a fix for the NEW cars sitting on lots?

bennybmn · Jul 12, 2016

So there has to be a large batch of TDIs sitting in the back row of dealer lots or at the docks or wherever. I would think VW would be working on a fix for those FIRST so they're sellable as people get their older cars bought back. (would be nice to have that as an option!) I would also think it would mostly be a software change. Anyone have an idea of if that will be ready by the fall? I know they have a deadline, but that's longer term.

r11 · Jul 12, 2016

We dont know yet if EA288 can be made "on-the-road-compliant" with EPA's by-the-book 40mg/km NOX limit or even Euro 6 80mg/km NOX limit. Compliance is much less likely for CKRA (GenII) or older GenI engines.

It can and will be, made compliant with relaxed "on-the-road" EPA requirements, via the 2-stage fix. Just what the relaxed limit is, I dunno - court docs claim 90% reduction from up-to-40x-the-legal-limit numbers, so its fuzzy math @ best.

Will we see the hold lifted and EA288 cars released to the dealers ? 50/50 at this point.

Can VW argue for and be allowed, to fix these to be compliant with "relaxed" limit so that it could sell them ? Just how many are on hold exactly ? How quickly did VW stop TDI production @ Chattanooga ? Or reduce the output of engine plant in Germany ?

laminated · Jul 12, 2016

I saw here yesterday VW is taking them back

jims2321 · Jul 12, 2016

Yeah, I am starting to wonder, if the news from Europe about the fix done there that is actually making the issue worse, is pretty much tainting the EPA/CARB view on relaxing the NOX limits.

If what is being said, the fix on the European cars is a complete disaster.

http://www.hybridcars.com/volkswagens-diesel-fix-increases-nox-emissions-euro-consumer-group-says/

IndigoBlueWagon · Jul 12, 2016

'16 have been, or are being shipped out of the country. Rumor is they're going to Africa. They were never certified by the EPA, so VW must have decided that it wasn't worth it to obtain certification for cars that are already a model year old.

Some dealers have a few '15s on their lots. I suspect these will be available for sale once they're fixed. That could be this fall or early next year.

fredthe · Jul 12, 2016

r11 said:
It can and will be, made compliant with relaxed "on-the-road" EPA requirements, via the 2-stage fix. Just what the relaxed limit is, I dunno - court docs claim 90% reduction from up-to-40x-the-legal-limit numbers, so its fuzzy math @ best

See http://www.cand.uscourts.gov/filelibrary/1776/Partial-Consent-Decree.pdf
Appendix B, Section 3.4 for details of the "relaxed limit"

Marsupial · Jul 12, 2016

There was an article about this on Truth About Cars yesterday. Here's the link:

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2016/07/volkswagen-hasnt-started-process-resume-u-s-diesel-sales-germany-readies-big-fine/

These cars have been sitting around for 10 months already and looks like they will be sitting around for few months more. I don't know if I would be interested in buying any of those unless they sell them really cheap.

fredthe · Jul 12, 2016

Marsupial said:
There was an article about this on Truth About Cars yesterday. Here's the link:
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2016/07/volkswagen-hasnt-started-process-resume-u-s-diesel-sales-germany-readies-big-fine/
These cars have been sitting around for 10 months already and looks like they will be sitting around for few months more. I don't know if I would be interested in buying any of those unless they sell them really cheap.

Sloppy reporting at its finest. I stopped reading at:

scores of unsold 2015 and 2016 TDI models

Um, there are no unsold 2016 TDIs at dealers! They don't exist! If the reporter can't even keep that straight, what else are they glossing over?

Marsupial · Jul 12, 2016

fredthe said:
Sloppy reporting at its finest. I stopped reading at:
Um, there are no unsold 2016 TDIs at dealers! They don't exist! If the reporter can't even keep that straight, what else are they glossing over?

To be fair, the reported does not say "scores of unsold 2016 TDIs at dealers". He or she does say "scores of unsold 2015 and 2016 TDI models that have collected dust for the past 10 months". There were reports that 2016's that were at various dealers were eventually shipped away from those dealers back to somewhere (shipping ports or storage?) by VW but they are still somewhere in the USA and are definitely unsold. I don't see anything factually incorrect with the reporter's statement - you're clutching at straws here.

IndigoBlueWagon · Jul 12, 2016

That article was typical internet nothing. Culled from other blog info, nothing new. And certainly no reporting. Complete waste.

fredthe · Jul 12, 2016

Marsupial said:
There were reports that 2016's that were at various dealers were eventually shipped away from those dealers back to somewhere (shipping ports or storage?) by VW

Here's the problem... the 2016 TDIs were NEVER certified for sale, therefore could not legally leave the "ports." AFAIK no '16 TDIs were ever at any dealer. Even for the US produced Passat there were reports from the factory that they were being stored there without their front bodywork. So sorry, but even hinting that any 2016's were on dealer's lots is sloppy and is indicative of someone who's just pulling from other "reports" without understanding what they are actually writing about.

Marsupial · Jul 12, 2016

fredthe said:
Here's the problem... the 2016 TDIs were NEVER certified for sale, therefore could not legally leave the "ports." AFAIK no '16 TDIs were ever at any dealer. Even for the US produced Passat there were reports from the factory that they were being stored there without their front bodywork. So sorry, but even hinting that any 2016's were on dealer's lots is sloppy and is indicative of someone who's just pulling from other "reports" without understanding what they are actually writing about.

But that article never mentions that they were at dealer's lots - that is just not in the article. Am I being crazy here? I am out of this discussion - it is just pointless...

conejo_a_cuatro · Jul 12, 2016

I don't know what to say, but I was at a dealer in Southern MA about 6 months ago, and I walked their back lot. Rows and rows of 2016, yes 2016 GSW's that were unsellable. They had the Mulroney Sticker, and each one said "2016 Sportwagen TDI SEL" or whatever. What happened to those? If they really weren't supposed to be away from the port, why were they at the dealer?

fredthe · Jul 12, 2016

conejo_a_cuatro said:
I don't know what to say, but I was at a dealer in Southern MA about 6 months ago, and I walked their back lot. Rows and rows of 2016, yes 2016 GSW's that were unsellable. They had the Mulroney Sticker, and each one said "2016 Sportwagen TDI SEL" or whatever. What happened to those? If they really weren't supposed to be away from the port, why were they at the dealer?

Thank you, that's useful information, and I stand corrected. I'd be interested if they had EPA certification stickers, since supposedly the certification was withheld.

banshee365 · Jul 12, 2016

I saw 6-8 TDI Touaregs on a VW lot yesterday. I would jump all over one of those in 2018 if they're sold at a greatly reduced price and full warranty.

bennybmn · Jul 13, 2016

conejo_a_cuatro said:
I don't know what to say, but I was at a dealer in Southern MA about 6 months ago, and I walked their back lot. Rows and rows of 2016, yes 2016 GSW's that were unsellable. They had the Mulroney Sticker, and each one said "2016 Sportwagen TDI SEL" or whatever. What happened to those? If they really weren't supposed to be away from the port, why were they at the dealer?

Exactly what I'm talking about. I swear I've seen a GOLF wagen with a TDI badge in my neighborhood. I'll try to snap a shot next time I see it. I figured a few slipped out before September.

I hadn't heard about VW taking them back until now. Thanks all that have replied. It's a bummer... So few options for cars that fit my needs/wants.

Throwback7r · Jul 13, 2016

Saying no 16's were on dealer lots is false. I drove to the back dealer lot and there were a lot of 2016's just rusting away In back.

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IndigoBlueWagon · Jul 13, 2016

Perhaps VW ran out of room at the ports and had to store them at dealers. They were never sold to dealers, however, as they were never certified by the EPA for sale. If you recall when the scandal broke VW withdrew its application for certification for the '16s.

fredthe · Jul 14, 2016

IndigoBlueWagon said:
Perhaps VW ran out of room at the ports and had to store them at dealers. They were never sold to dealers, however, as they were never certified by the EPA for sale. If you recall when the scandal broke VW withdrew its application for certification for the '16s.

Thank you, that's exactly how I remember it.... I thought I was starting to loose my mind.

fredthe · Jul 14, 2016

bennybmn said:
Exactly what I'm talking about. I swear I've seen a GOLF wagen with a TDI badge in my neighborhood.

Well I've seen that too, there's one in my driveway

. Keep in mind there were '15 Golf Wagons before the scandal broke, but no '16s should have ever been sold.

tango_28 · Jul 14, 2016

Throwback7r said:
Saying no 16's were on dealer lots is false. I drove to the back dealer lot and there were a lot of 2016's just rusting away In back.

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Where is that location of the 2016 tdi's?

IndigoBlueWagon · Jul 14, 2016

Another thing my guru pointed out was that there were probably a number of TDIs that were already in transit to dealers when the scandal broke. If a train full of TDIs was on its way to Illinois from NJ or wherever on September 18, they probably would have off loaded and parked them. That may be why they're sitting there.

meerschm · Jul 15, 2016

At least someone is driving them enough to cut the grass

CSR Penfab · Jul 15, 2016

IndigoBlueWagon said:
Perhaps VW ran out of room at the ports and had to store them at dealers. They were never sold to dealers, however, as they were never certified by the EPA for sale. If you recall when the scandal broke VW withdrew its application for certification for the '16s.

*With the exception of the 3.0's. Plenty of 2016's were sold by VW after the 2.0 scandal broke and they claimed the 3.0 had no type of cheat... I know, I have a 2016 Touareg Lux those lying bastards sold me!

kjclow · Jul 15, 2016

Since the scandle broke about the same time as the new model year shold have been on the dealers' lots, I see no reason for not assuming that at least some of the dealers never sent, or had picked up, the cars that had already shown up. It takes a lot more time to load and return a product than to accept it. From other (many) threads, we know the VW was fighting for certification on the 16s right up to the last minute.

bennybmn · Jul 15, 2016

fredthe said:
Well I've seen that too, there's one in my driveway. Keep in mind there were '15 Golf Wagons before the scandal broke, but no '16s should have ever been sold.

That there explains it...

tango_28 · Jul 16, 2016

All those 2015 and 2016 cars when fixed will have a branded title when they are sold.

bubbagumpshrimp · Jul 16, 2016

tango_28 said:
All those 2015 and 2016 cars when fixed will have a branded title when they are sold.

Why is that? It's not uncommon for new/untitled vehicles to sit around on dealer lots until they're 2+ model years old. Unless something goes wrong with those cars (ex. Critters do some serious damage that necessitates repair), I don't see why they'd be sold without a clear title.

That being said...I wouldn't buy one unless it was a stupid good deal. I could see driving one home and having mice pop out of the A/C vents, lol.

GoFaster · Jul 16, 2016

tango_28 said:
All those 2015 and 2016 cars when fixed will have a branded title when they are sold.

No they won't. No insurance company has written them off.

A vehicle can still be "new" but "non-current" if it is from a past model year but was never sold and registered.

And, repairs to new vehicles prior to delivery to customers is something that happens ALL the time. Repairs to shipping damage is commonplace. Having recall repair work done for vehicles that did not end up in private hands by the time the recall came to be is also commonplace.

tango_28 · Jul 16, 2016

It depends it which state you live in. In Mn they are considered lemon buy backs, because of their certificate of manufacture title.

Any news on a fix for the NEW cars sitting on lots?

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