Nozzle replacement injector balancing?

Northern Mike · Jun 11, 2014

This is a newbie question really. Looking to replace the nozzles on my 03 Jet ta and have seen some how tos mention balancing and others don't.
The car has 300k km on the original nozzles and I'm looking to go with the spirit 520 (stock ecu).
Is or when is balancing required?

Seatman · Jun 11, 2014

Balancing or pop testing is best done when new nozzles are fitted, the injectors are mechanical and the springs can wear over time as well as a bigger nozzle can work better at a different pressure from stock.

Some people have just slapped them on and had no problems while others have had problems and others still have found their car runs better after balancing which makes sense really.

Northern Mike · Jun 11, 2014

I kind of figured what you said.
I don't know of any shops equipped to do that remotely close to here, so I'm guessing a hot swap arrangement would work best for me.

Vince Waldon · Jun 11, 2014

Giles at Performance Diesel in Markham is where I send my nozzles:

www.performancediesel.ca

Northern Mike · Jun 12, 2014

I emailed Giles and at the price per injector, its cheaper for me to do a hot swap with a US vendor.
Actually, its cheaper to get replacement injectors calibrated with new nozzles then to get mine calibrated.

Northern Mike · Jun 12, 2014

At the price of getting the injectors calibrated, I think I may be another one taking a chance with clean, swap nozzles and go.
I can get the nozzles (all 4) for the cost of calibrating one injector, and these are the sprint 520, not Chinese no names

Vince Waldon · Jun 12, 2014

Certainly your call... and there are various opinions to be found here on the board.

All I might add is that "how good they are" is only one factor... the odds of them matching whatever shims were used to individually balance your stock nozzles also enters into the equation, calibration-wise.

jetta 97 · Jun 12, 2014

This is what I usually say:
Putting just nozzle with out calibration is same as washing your feet and putting old dirty socks back on your feet.

If you can not do calibration then better do not do anything.
I have customer who wanted to be smart and did just nozzle swap. After 20000 miles he decide to do calibration but it was not possible due to very big damage to nozzles. They were overheating so bad and was not possible to calibrate them.
So he end up paying 2x more then it should do at first place.
Also he made some damage to Pump as well.

Northern Mike · Jun 12, 2014

I want to do the nozzles and calibrate the injectors to go along with the other work I'm doing. Its the cost of calibration I have been getting quotes for that are killing the idea.
Nozzles = $140 (plus shipping) for all 4
Calibration = $135 each injector plus shipping each way.
So $680 plus shipping.

That is more then I've spent on the timing belt kit, egr/intake cleaning parts, new t-clamps for the intake system, rotors, park brake cables, vacuum lines and a downpipe/cat.

RacerTodd · Jun 12, 2014

Northern Mike said:
Its the cost of calibration I have been getting quotes for that are killing the idea.
Calibration = $135 each injector plus shipping each way.

Are you that $135 charge is per injector? I got my nozzles from Kerma, their current charge is $176 to mount/calibrate all 4.

Northern Mike · Jun 12, 2014

RacerTodd said:
Are you that $135 charge is per injector? I got my nozzles from Kerma, their current charge is $176 to mount/calibrate all 4.

Ya, that was per injector. That made the cost of doing nozzles more then all the other items I'm putting into the car.

I started emailing back and forth with a Paul over at Kerma.
They had the best price I've found for the Sprint injectors and by the looks of it, the best for calibration.
It looks like doing the nozzles properly is going to be within my budget.

JDSwan87 · Jun 13, 2014

RacerTodd said:
Are you that $135 charge is per injector? I got my nozzles from Kerma, their current charge is $176 to mount/calibrate all 4.

Same here! Mine are getting mounted and calibrated right now with Kerma! PP520s mounted, calibrated, and shipped for $385! They have a free shipping code on their rolling banner currently...

Northern Mike · Jun 13, 2014

JDSwan87 said:
Same here! Mine are getting mounted and calibrated right now with Kerma! PP520s mounted, calibrated, and shipped for $385! They have a free shipping code on their rolling banner currently...

Are you running a tune or stock ecu?
I'm on the fence between the PP or the Sprint.

I don't think I can get free shipping over the border but shipping is far cheaper then $135 a plug

jetta 97 · Jun 13, 2014

Northern Mike said:
I want to do the nozzles and calibrate the injectors to go along with the other work I'm doing. Its the cost of calibration I have been getting quotes for that are killing the idea.
Nozzles = $140 (plus shipping) for all 4
Calibration = $135 each injector plus shipping each way.
So $680 plus shipping.

That is more then I've spent on the timing belt kit, egr/intake cleaning parts, new t-clamps for the intake system, rotors, park brake cables, vacuum lines and a downpipe/cat.

NO< NO < NO
it is $44 per injector, for all 4 is $176.
Here is the web,this guy Kerma use:
http://www.dbwllc.net/store/products/digital-direct-injection-calibration-and-balancing/

You probably misunderstand Hot swap deal.
It is require $600 deposit , and when they get your injectors you get back $600.

So total with Nozzles and calibration is $415 + Shipping.

octy900 · Jun 13, 2014

you guys have way too much money than is good for ya's lol
this week i have just stripped all 4 injectors & cleaned em all out & reassembled them. Before I cleaned em out each injector was over 1.0mg over-correcting(2=under,2=over). Now theyre all back in car,but i think 1 is still a bit dodgy (ie max 1.36 over).the rest are ok.think i'll get another nozzle for injector 1. didnt calibrate them. car runs ok,was 43mpg around town,now 45mpg. was 46.8mpg on country rds,now 49mpg. havent tried motorway driving yet but will soon.btw these injectors were quite dirty,& 2 nozzles had only 3 nozzle holes letting diesel through.
i have also been told it doesnt make that much difference to having them calibrated as well. soon see though lol

binky973 · Jun 13, 2014

how are the injectors calibrated? can i do it with vcds? i have a 2002 automatic and want to put stock manual nozzles in.

jetta 97 · Jun 14, 2014

octy900 said:
you guys have way too much money than is good for ya's lol
this week i have just stripped all 4 injectors & cleaned em all out & reassembled them. Before I cleaned em out each injector was over 1.0mg over-correcting(2=under,2=over). Now theyre all back in car,but i think 1 is still a bit dodgy (ie max 1.36 over).the rest are ok.think i'll get another nozzle for injector 1. didnt calibrate them. car runs ok,was 43mpg around town,now 45mpg. was 46.8mpg on country rds,now 49mpg. havent tried motorway driving yet but will soon.btw these injectors were quite dirty,& 2 nozzles had only 3 nozzle holes letting diesel through.
i have also been told it doesnt make that much difference to having them calibrated as well. soon see though lol

No one say car will not run , the problem is you think it runs properly but it does not .
Read Post # 8 again.

jetta 97 · Jun 14, 2014

binky973 said:
how are the injectors calibrated? can i do it with vcds? i have a 2002 automatic and want to put stock manual nozzles in.

No way man. If you want to spend $300000 then you can calibrate them.
http://www.dbwllc.net/store/products...and-balancing/

JDSwan87 · Jun 14, 2014

Northern Mike said:
Are you running a tune or stock ecu?
I'm on the fence between the PP or the Sprint.
I don't think I can get free shipping over the border but shipping is far cheaper then $135 a plug

I will be running a stock tune for a bit until I squirrel away more money for a tune. I might throw in a clutch before a tune as I'm sure once the tune goes in the clutch won't be far behind. Also, its $136 to mount and balance all 4 injectors, $44/ injector. I went with the PP520s because I know if/when the turbo pukes out it I will put a 17/22 in it and from what I've read Sprints will not fuel as well as the PP520s with that turbo.

JDSwan87 · Jun 14, 2014

binky973 said:
how are the injectors calibrated? can i do it with vcds? i have a 2002 automatic and want to put stock manual nozzles in.

The injectors are calibrated mechanically not thru VCDS. As for the stock manual nozzles, check the for sale section here as I will be putting a set up for sale when my injectors come back from calibrating the PP520s.

Vince Waldon · Jun 14, 2014

Northern Mike said:
... shipping is far cheaper then $135 a plug

Seems like there's still some confusion on your various quotes in terms of "per nozzle" or "for the whole set".

The last time Giles set installed and calibrated some nozzles for me (admittedly it was a couple years ago) it was around $200 + shipping for the *entire* set.

Maybe I got a sweetheart deal, but given the current value of the Canadian dollar it may still be worth checking to see if a Canadian supplier is cheaper.

turbovan+tdi · Jun 14, 2014

I've used a pop tester on 3 sets, not a high po machine of course, but checking pop pressures before and after, they were still nicely balanced. Just an FYI, your results may vary,

FlyTDI Guy · Jun 14, 2014

"Calibrated" vs "Balanced"

turbovan+tdi said:
I've used a pop tester on 3 sets, not a high po machine of course, but checking pop pressures before and after, they were still nicely balanced. Just an FYI, your results may vary,

There are far more aspects to full injector "servicing" than just a pop test. One task is matching the pilot/main pop pressures and another is matching flow. While a pop tester will tell you something about the first it tells you little about the second (without additional measures).

To truly have it properly done, you'll want them calibrated for both. This doesn't even include the numerous other checks and adjustments made when truly getting them "calibrated".

You'll want to check with your vendor and find out specifically what they include in the service. While descriptions may look similar, they may not be the same at all. Mount and pop-test only is at the bottom end of those services. Definitely, ask first...

turbovan+tdi · Jun 14, 2014

FlyTDI Guy said:
There are far more aspects to full injector "servicing" than just a pop test. One task is matching the pilot/main pop pressures and another is matching flow. While a pop tester will tell you something about the first it tells you little about the second (without additional measures).

To truly have it properly done, you'll want them calibrated for both. This doesn't even include the numerous other checks and adjustments made when truly getting them "calibrated".

You'll want to check with your vendor and find out specifically what they include in the service. While descriptions may look similar, they may not be the same at all. Mount and pop-test only is at the bottom end of those services. Definitely, ask first...

Yes, well aware of that, many have done just what I've done with no issues, even a few threads on it from Vendors doing it,

. As I said, your results may vary.

Nozzle replacement injector balancing?

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