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TDI (Diesel) Emissions This is a discussion about emissions from TDI's. Pro's cons of Diesels (including biodiesel) effects on the environment and how they compare to Gasoline and other fuel sources for Internal combustion engines.

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Old February 21st, 2017, 10:47   #31
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Originally Posted by IndigoBlueWagon View Post
That doesn't matter. Pollution travels. Ask people in Canada who suffer from acid rain caused by rust belt pollution. Or Californians who get pollution from China. As if they don't have enough of their own.
......or the Texans who get routinely doused from Mexico.

When I was with ARCO in LA, I used to be on a super tanker on occasion that went from Long Beach to San Francisco, then to Washington state to drop crude picked up from Alaska. Then we went to Valdez, Alaska and reloaded the ship and did the route again. Believe me, even with the 3 mile shore limit to switch to low sulfur diesel (at that time), lots of particulates from the ship were blown to shore. This was only one company tanker but there were many.
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Old February 21st, 2017, 10:57   #32
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they've been at it in LA for 40+ years and it's not working.
How do you define "not working"?

I lived in the inland empire in the 90's and visit LA once or twice a year, and the air quality is better now than it was in the early 90's.
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Old February 21st, 2017, 12:02   #33
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I won't argue that the air quality is better, but they still aren't able to meet clean air standards for nearly one third of each year.
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Old February 21st, 2017, 13:05   #34
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It's as much about air currents as anything. Speaking from personal experience - you get an inversion with nothing to push the air out and it can get really nasty really quick.

Anyone care to guess where these pics come from, without cheating by checking the links?
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Old February 21st, 2017, 13:32   #35
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Anyone care to guess where these pics come from, without cheating by checking the links?
Top looks like LA with the snow capped mountains in the background, but could be SLC too, bottom, I'd throw a WAG out there and say somewhere in China.
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Old February 21st, 2017, 18:05   #36
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Top picture has too many trees to be Southern California. And In L.A. you have a hard time seeing the snow on the mountains, because the smog blocks the view.

No clue/guess on the second picture, but it was taken from the AP wire service, so could be anywhere.
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Old February 21st, 2017, 18:17   #37
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I won't argue that the air quality is better, but they still aren't able to meet clean air standards for nearly one third of each year.
Southern California air quality has changed very much for the better in my life time. Sure, it is not perfect as you noted.

But now, by some measures, Houston Texas has more air quality problems than Los Angeles. That was not the case in the 60's and 70's. Both large cities with an equal number of oil refineries and lots of cars. The Houston refineries put out significantly more pollution than the L.A. refineries for example.
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Old February 21st, 2017, 18:30   #38
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I won't argue that the air quality is better, but they still aren't able to meet clean air standards for nearly one third of each year.
Please note that the very significant improvement in air quality over the last 40 yrs
has come despite a tremendous increase in population, vehicles and miles driven.
To ignore this fact illustrates an apparent bias and/or lack of intellectual rigor.
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Old February 21st, 2017, 20:29   #39
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Blah, blah, blah. Let's face it, we are all earth murderers. Anyone who tries to mitigate that unfortunate truth by installing PV , conserving resources etc. deserves mad props.
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Old February 22nd, 2017, 02:05   #40
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Please note that the very significant improvement in air quality over the last 40 yrs
has come despite a tremendous increase in population, vehicles and miles driven.
To ignore this fact illustrates an apparent bias and/or lack of intellectual rigor.
Note where the folks who are defending CA air quality are from. I've been around Southern Californians often enough and long enough to know that it is difficult for many to accept that there is anything about their region that's less than perfect. And that most are loathe to understand why everyone wouldn't want to live there.

I do recognize that the air is significantly better. I lived in LA (mid-Wilshire) in the late 70s and remember how dirty I would get just being outside. However, it's obvious from air quality measures that CARB has either not done enough or not taken an effective enough approach to controlling air quality in that region.

I've always felt that LA is a dirty city, dirtier than New York or Chicago, for example. And that continues, even if it is somewhat diminished.
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Old February 22nd, 2017, 06:29   #41
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That doesn't matter. Pollution travels. Ask people in Canada who suffer from acid rain caused by rust belt pollution. Or Californians who get pollution from China. As if they don't have enough of their own.

I don't mind pollution regulations, just CARB's holier than thou attitude, especially when they've been at it in LA for 40+ years and it's not working.


THIS STATEMENT IS SIMPLY NOT SUPPORTED BY SCIENCE

"As the JAWMA article details, there have been dramatic improvements in regional air quality across southern California over the past 20 years. Several key air pollutants, tracked by U.S. EPA, dramatically declined in outdoor concentrations between 1994 and 2011. Nitrogen dioxide (NO2), which is a by-product of engine combustion, decreased by 28% 53% in communities from San Luis Obispo County to San Diego County. Inhalable particle matter (PM, microscopic pieces of dirt floating in the air, in specific size ranges, such as 2.5 microns, denoted as PM 2.5) decreased by 13% -54% across a similar range of communities and areas. Changes in ozone (O3) were less pronounced, improving by 12% 27%, depending on the community."

http://envhealthcenters.usc.edu/2015...-20-years.html
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Old February 22nd, 2017, 06:59   #42
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Note where the folks who are defending CA air quality are from. I've been around Southern Californians often enough and long enough to know that it is difficult for many to accept that there is anything about their region that's less than perfect.
I was born in Canada and grew up in northern california
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Old February 22nd, 2017, 07:22   #43
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SoCal really needs a well thought out mass transit system. Maybe Elon will get around to it in his spare time. All those cars sitting in traffic, spewing emissions- no thanks.
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Old February 22nd, 2017, 07:38   #44
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Hey guys, I'm just poking the bear. After 40 years of calls from in-laws that start with "what's the temperature there? It's beautiful here" I've tired of people promoting Southern California. And CARB is a bit of a thorn in my side, as you might imagine.

My daughter now lives there and I enjoy visiting. I would never live there again, but that's because it's a bigger metro area than I care to live in. There's a lot I like about LA, and unlike most New Englanders, I prefer it to the "other" California in the north.
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Old February 22nd, 2017, 08:35   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IndigoBlueWagon View Post
Hey guys, I'm just poking the bear. After 40 years of calls from in-laws that start with "what's the temperature there? It's beautiful here" I've tired of people promoting Southern California. And CARB is a bit of a thorn in my side, as you might imagine.

My daughter now lives there and I enjoy visiting. I would never live there again, but that's because it's a bigger metro area than I care to live in. There's a lot I like about LA, and unlike most New Englanders, I prefer it to the "other" California in the north.
I lived in Thousand Oaks between 1980 and 1992 and worked for ARCO in downtown LA as the West Coast Director of Environmental Affairs covering environmental compliance and systems assistance for two refineries (Carson and one in Washington state), many product terminals, chemical plants, offshore vessels, and all the pipeline systems. We loved T.O. until all the people and cars (traffic) came (and the drive by shootings - but that's another story).

In 1982 - 83, I did not like negotiating with the city of Santa Barbara and U of Cal. over the right of way for a crude pipeline as they insisted that moving crude oil by train was better for the environment. That's when I realized the state had gone bonkers.

California is a great place but the best places to live in the state is, IMHO, located hundreds of miles north of LA. We are in the great state of Texas now and love it. We still have relatives in the Santa Clara and west and north of San Francisco.

The last time I was in LA, which was a couple of years ago, I was shocked as to how much the traffic had increased on the freeways during non-rush hour periods. No wonder the air quality is still so poor, even with all the pressure to reduce emissions put on industry, and not on mobile sources to any great degree.
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