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Go Back   TDIClub Forums > TDI Model Specific Discussions Areas > VW Passat Family (NMS and B7) TDIs (2012+)

VW Passat Family (NMS and B7) TDIs (2012+) Discussion area for the 2012+ Passat TDI (North American and rest of world versions versions). The North American model was previously codenamed NMS (New Midsize Sedan) and the version the rest of the world gets is sometimes referred to as B7.

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Old August 19th, 2016, 08:12   #46
mc4nam
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Diesel heretic here. Wearing the nomex...
In advance of selling my 2014 back to VWoA, we just purchased a used 2014 Avalon Hybrid Limited, 12k miles, $47k sticker in 2014, paid $28.4k. It'll cost me $1.5k more than what VWoA will give me for my 2014 NMS Passat with 60k miles.
I've driven 280 miles in and around the Dallas region, in traffic, some 75-80 mph cruising, probably 40/60 C/H.
Computer says 42.6 mpg. Won't know actual mpg figures until I refill the tank.
Totally different class of vehicle, virtually identical interior/exterior dimensions. ALL the available bells and whistles (vented seats: WOOHOO!), 200hp, CVT (gag!...but almost as responsive as the hesitant and sometimes confused DSG!) Trunk is smaller, but not by much, 14cf vs. 16cf, BUT, it's deeper, more square, appears to be more useful.
Oh, and the Avalon no longer drives like a Japanese Buick. It's not German by any stretch, but not a huge step down.
Go ahead...hate on me for going hybrid (trading the hyper-engineered but fragile CR TDI for UBER-engineered but time-tested, reliable Toyota hybrid!).
I went on to a high end dealerships lot this past Sunday in DFW. They were closed of course. Used Cars from loaded BMW 7 series, Escalades, 911's and down. 90% of the cars were open. It was nice to be able to just sit in a bunch of cars. Avalon was nice and had plenty of room. I am still hoping to be happy in a mid sized car.
I went and drove a 2016 Accord EX-L V6 with a 6 speed automatic. Wow. I was really impressed. I didn't realize how much I missed true power. Very smooth as well. 0-60 in less than 6 seconds and still not bad MPG's
More Torque than my Passat as well. Backseat seems to be about 2 inches less leg room and trunk seems about 10 inches less deep than Passat. Other than that space is the same. Plenty of front seat space.
I only drive about 9k miles a year right now so the extra loss in MPG's wouldn't be a huge hit to the wallet.
2016's are on year end clearance and I am seeing Accords being purchased at 4k to 5k behind MSRP. Really tempting to buy one and park Passat
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Thread title: "Passat Replacement based cabin size". HAHA!
Yea...I tried to go back and add the "on" that I missed. It didn't work.
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Originally Posted by atc98002 View Post
I would certainly consider a hybrid to replace my Passat. However, since I'm looking to move back into a small SUV/CUV, The RAV4 is almost the only one on the market. And I'm just not ready to move to Toyota. Something about their appearance...
Now Lexus has the NX200h, but I can't get past the grille. Can't think of any other smaller hybrid SUV. Both the Subaru Forester and Mazda CX-5 fit my desired size, and both have improved their MPG significantly in the last few years. Not diesel level MPG, but far better than the Tiguan I used to have.
On the NX200h, coming from a Passat, you are going to hate the backseat space. Tiny! If the front Grille didn't get you, minimal space in backseat would.
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Nice, I was wondering what you bought after I saw another post of yours. That is probably about the closest match you can get vs the Passat TDI. More power (1 second faster to 60), plenty of space and great mpgs. No hate from me as I am looking into hybrids as well.
My reality check comes this weekend (if I have the time) with my 6'5" self and at least one of my kids in a car seat behind me trolling dealer lots. I have driven plenty now time to see if we can all actually fit. I am bracing myself since the 2 top contenders (2017 Fusion Energi or 16 Malibu Hybrid) are decently sized for a normal person, leave a lot to be desired when I am sitting comfortably and then try to get others behind me. My benchmark is myself sitting behind myself. If my knees are barely touching then the kids dangling feet will be touching slightly, can't go much smaller. But, have to try with the actual passengers to really see.
Also have driven some non-hybrid GMs. 2016 Malibu 1.5T is actually pretty decent given its light weight, comparable to the TDI in performance. Best cars for me though are the Impala/LaCrosse/XTS (used for best deals and close to VW payback). If I could get over the 50% mpg hit I would stop my search now, great cars.
Go try the Accord. Slightly less room in backseat than Passat but the Accord seems to have a lot more space in the backseat than Malibu, Fusion or Mazda 6. Impala would do the trick as in space for you. I drove one of those as well.
The Accord CVT 4 cylinder is quicker than our Passat and I would venture to say you would only take a 10-15% mileage hit vs Passat.....Just don't drive an Accord V6!
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Old August 19th, 2016, 08:26   #47
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Go try the Accord. Slightly less room in backseat than Passat but the Accord seems to have a lot more space in the backseat than Malibu, Fusion or Mazda 6. Impala would do the trick as in space for you. I drove one of those as well.
The Accord CVT 4 cylinder is quicker than our Passat and I would venture to say you would only take a 10-15% mileage hit vs Passat.....Just don't drive an Accord V6!
I have driven a 2015 Accord Hybrid touring so I know the size well. The funny thing with the Accord was that I felt like I could not get the seat into a comfortable position. I agree with the rear space, it is pretty good and would be acceptable whereas the Fusion, 6 and even 2016 Malibu are a lot tighter, probably by at least 3 inches. Those 3 would be fine for the vast majority of people and trying to see if they will work for me given I generally am the only one in the car.

Just like you did, the best advise is to sit in as many cars as possible since the specs listed can't compare to when you actually sit.

Given that the Accord hybrid is fairly new hitting the lots since they transitioned mfg back to Japan, not a lot of deals to be had compared to Malibu Hybrid and Fusion Hybrid/Energi. The Fusion Energi SE Luxury is probably the best deal once you factor in the $4,007 Federal Tax Credit and State rebate which is currently $1,500 for the Energi (in Massachusetts).
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Old August 19th, 2016, 08:52   #48
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I have driven a 2015 Accord Hybrid touring so I know the size well. The funny thing with the Accord was that I felt like I could not get the seat into a comfortable position. I agree with the rear space, it is pretty good and would be acceptable whereas the Fusion, 6 and even 2016 Malibu are a lot tighter, probably by at least 3 inches. Those 3 would be fine for the vast majority of people and trying to see if they will work for me given I generally am the only one in the car.
Just like you did, the best advise is to sit in as many cars as possible since the specs listed can't compare to when you actually sit.
Given that the Accord hybrid is fairly new hitting the lots since they transitioned mfg back to Japan, not a lot of deals to be had compared to Malibu Hybrid and Fusion Hybrid/Energi. The Fusion Energi SE Luxury is probably the best deal once you factor in the $4,007 Federal Tax Credit and State rebate which is currently $1,500 for the Energi (in Massachusetts).
They did update the interior in the 2016 models. Maybe the seat is more comfortable? It was fine for me but, unfortunately for me, I don't have your height.
I was talking about a non hybrid 4 cylinder CVT. I don't know how many miles per year you drive but it will probably take a while to recoup the extra money spent on the hybrid versus just buying an efficient 4 cylinder that gets a little worse Gas mileage.
Check out this thread to get an idea of the type of Gas Mileage to expect on the 4. I drove the 4 cylinder accord. It is quicker than our Passat.
http://www.driveaccord.net/forums/86...thread-74.html
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Old August 19th, 2016, 11:28   #49
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They did update the interior in the 2016 models. Maybe the seat is more comfortable? It was fine for me but, unfortunately for me, I don't have your height.
I was talking about a non hybrid 4 cylinder CVT. I don't know how many miles per year you drive but it will probably take a while to recoup the extra money spent on the hybrid versus just buying an efficient 4 cylinder that gets a little worse Gas mileage.
Check out this thread to get an idea of the type of Gas Mileage to expect on the 4. I drove the 4 cylinder accord. It is quicker than our Passat.
http://www.driveaccord.net/forums/86...thread-74.html
Yes, valid point on recouping the higher cost vs hybrid equivalent, it is very much part of my search. Same can be said for when I bought the Passat, when you add in maintenance and specific things that went wrong on the diesel side of things, it was a wash vs a 2.5. The only saving grace is scandal giving me the money back that I expected (but wasn't guaranteed) on resale.

The reasons to go hybrid for me include getting slightly better performance (Malibu hybrid is over a full second quicker to 60 - not that you can hammer a hybrid and expect good results at the pump) and better incentives to cut the price. Even if breakeven takes 5 years or more because gas prices stay around $2 then I will have at least had a different driving experience, one of the main reasons I chose a diesel in the first place.

I really enjoy car research and test drives etc so this has been a fun few months but a decision is coming soon.
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Old August 19th, 2016, 13:09   #50
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I bought my Passat for it's 1). Size 2). Mileage and 3) Performance. My daughter dances and we pack the car full quite a bit and the trunk was a huge selling point on the Passat.


I went out and looked at the Accord Hybrid. The biggest problem is the trunk space is that it is too small. The Passat was 15.9 cubic feet, the Accord is 13.7 cubic feet. And with the batteries back there, the back seats do not fold down, so you cannot fold down the seats to get anything larger in there. And you also don't get a spare tire in the Accord Hybrid either.

I looked at the Malibu and immediately rules out the hybrid as it's batteries are bigger than the Accord and it's trunk is only 11.6 cubic feet.

The Honda Civic actually has decent size inside, and it's trunk is bigger than the accord Hybrid. It's 15.1 Cubic feet. Mileage is 31/42 And it's cheaper too. About $27k fully loaded versus an Accord hybrid around $33k fully loaded. Based on 18,000 miles a year, with the Hybrid averaged 9 MPG more than the Civic, it would take me 7 years to break even on the fuel savings.

I test drove a regular Malibu last night with the 1.5T gas engine. It's rated at 28/38. But with the tag event they do at our Chevy dealer, I can get it with leather and convenience group for under $24k. So, that's where I am leaning right now.

Won't get quite the gas mileage, but will save about $85 a month from my Passat payment and I certainly won't eat up that much more fuel.
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Old August 21st, 2016, 09:59   #51
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I bought my Passat for it's 1). Size 2). Mileage and 3) Performance. My daughter dances and we pack the car full quite a bit and the trunk was a huge selling point on the Passat.


I went out and looked at the Accord Hybrid. The biggest problem is the trunk space is that it is too small. The Passat was 15.9 cubic feet, the Accord is 13.7 cubic feet. And with the batteries back there, the back seats do not fold down, so you cannot fold down the seats to get anything larger in there. And you also don't get a spare tire in the Accord Hybrid either.

I looked at the Malibu and immediately rules out the hybrid as it's batteries are bigger than the Accord and it's trunk is only 11.6 cubic feet.

The Honda Civic actually has decent size inside, and it's trunk is bigger than the accord Hybrid. It's 15.1 Cubic feet. Mileage is 31/42 And it's cheaper too. About $27k fully loaded versus an Accord hybrid around $33k fully loaded. Based on 18,000 miles a year, with the Hybrid averaged 9 MPG more than the Civic, it would take me 7 years to break even on the fuel savings.

I test drove a regular Malibu last night with the 1.5T gas engine. It's rated at 28/38. But with the tag event they do at our Chevy dealer, I can get it with leather and convenience group for under $24k. So, that's where I am leaning right now.

Won't get quite the gas mileage, but will save about $85 a month from my Passat payment and I certainly won't eat up that much more fuel.
Why didn't you look at 4 cylinder accord? I think trunk is 15.0. Plus you can buy one for the same as a civic right now. Should be able to buy a very nicely equipped 2016 closeout for 2k to 3k behind invoice. Like I said earlier, going to take a long time recoup the difference in gas savings on a hybrid vs a 4 cylinder accord. Plus, I would be concerned about long term reliability on Malibu... Also much smaller backseat in Malibu vs accord. Oh and seats fold down on ex and above non hybrid accords.
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Old August 21st, 2016, 10:47   #52
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I'm fixing to pull the trigger on a 2017 Accord Sport. From the drivers seat it certainly feels like it has more room. At least my right leg wasn't crowded out by the console.
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Old August 21st, 2016, 12:40   #53
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I'm leaning towards a BMW 535i. Asian cars just don't excite me at all. A lease return, two year old 535i will be in the $36k range. Plus the engine and interior are a step above VW. As much as I love VW, I just can't give them more money after all of this...


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Old August 21st, 2016, 13:55   #54
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Just remember what my guru says. You may have paid $36K for it, but you're still maintaining a $70K car. Parts and labor will be priced appropriately.
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Old August 21st, 2016, 17:18   #55
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Just remember what my guru says. You may have paid $36K for it, but you're still maintaining a $70K car. Parts and labor will be priced appropriately.
Sage advice.
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Old August 22nd, 2016, 01:20   #56
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We drove the Volvo S60 "extended" length last weekend. Still not nearly as much room as the Passat. Info center awkward to get at on center console. Dealer was trying to push the '16 in great length. Did ride okay and plenty of zip, but came back to the smaller cabin. Then went back to VW dealer and drove a '16 Passat SE w/ tech 1.8 turbo. Not as snotty as the diesel, but not too shabby either. Same thing we already have as for room. Changes made to dash and all but overall just an updated version of current car. So in the end, probly go w/ a gasser Passat. May have to order one as dealer didn't have any '17's on the lot let alone any SEL's period.
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Old August 22nd, 2016, 04:46   #57
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Just remember what my guru says. You may have paid $36K for it, but you're still maintaining a $70K car. Parts and labor will be priced appropriately.
...and conversely, what many here have refused to accept, is that their $33k Passat TDISELs are $20k cars with options!

Update on my mint 2014 Avalon Hybrid Limited: I've now used a full tank of fuel: 510 miles, 13.5 gal = 37.7mpg, w/o trying, probably 30/70 c/h. Several 70-100m highway cruises showed 42mpg at the end. Just took my son to college, needed 2 cars, BUT the trunk of the Avalon worked just fine for us (we WILL miss the fold down rear seats.)

The highway manners are perfect for us, and the coarse aggregate (rumble bumble) road surfaces that abound in the DFW region are very subdued. Whisper quiet (literally), unbelievable amenities (it's a $47k car, bought with 12k miles for $28.6), plenty of zip. I have no disappointment. Both CRTDIs seem quite crude by comparison.

Oh, and by the way, almost zero throttle lag, unlike the borderline unsafe Prius' I've test-driven (2011-2015), which are terrifying after 7 years driving low-end torquey VWTDIs. The "lag" is no more than the DSG hesitation that rears its ugly head from time-to-time. I will now continue my quest to replace the 2009 JSW (with 106k $14,500 buyback), looking again at CMax Hybrids, which at least are rated rather high. I will miss the JSW more than the Passat!
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Old August 22nd, 2016, 05:25   #58
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... I will now continue my quest to replace the 2009 JSW (with 106k $14,500 buyback), looking again at CMax Hybrids, which at least are rated rather high. I will miss the JSW more than the Passat!
I've looked at the CMax as well, but the trunk space is rather sparse, especially the Energi. Drives nice, but I can't give up that much cargo space.
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Old August 22nd, 2016, 05:53   #59
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...and conversely, what many here have refused to accept, is that their $33k Passat TDISELs are $20k cars with options!
I think it would be folly to spend 33K on a Passat. Just like it's crazy to spend over $30K on a Golf or Beetle.

I always tend to look at the base versions of cars I want to buy. I feel they're a better value and usually have less stuff to break. My '02 wagon's retail was $19,500. I'm looking for a '15 Jetta S when they're freed up for sale. Probably will get one in the low to mid-teens. That's a pretty good value. Alternatively, I may be able to get a manual Passat for well under $20K. Also pretty reasonable.
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Old August 22nd, 2016, 06:46   #60
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I think it would be folly to spend 33K on a Passat. Just like it's crazy to spend over $30K on a Golf or Beetle.
That was my point. Many were lulled into thinking they were buying an inexpensive Audi, only to learn that the basic structure was an entry-level mid-size sedan.
Both my 2012 and 2014 NMS Passats stickered over $33k, purchased for just under $30k.
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