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Old March 29th, 2015, 15:32   #1
1gcrazy
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Default Rough running 03 ALH and takes forever to start.

Hey guys, I'm new to the TDI World but I actually build 2.7t's and DSM's for a living.
I picked up this rough running TDI and have done a lot of reading so far and I'm not sure where to start.
Here's what I have so far.

I have a Vagcom and here are the codes:
2 Faults Found:
17656 - Start of Injection Timing Regulation
P1248 - 35-10 - Control Deviation - Intermittent
17964 - Charge Pressure Control
P1556 - 35-10 - Negative Deviation - Intermittent
Readiness: 1 2 0 0

I just checked timing and it's saying, "timing is to far advanced to be graphed".

There is also a lot of air bubbles coming to the injection pump.

There is lots of white smoke on deceleration while in gear as well as when you start the car.

Last edited by 1gcrazy; March 29th, 2015 at 15:38.
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Old March 29th, 2015, 16:43   #2
terrydtdi
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First thing to do would be to get the timing in spec. Do you know how to adjust the timing?
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Old March 29th, 2015, 16:46   #3
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Also make sure you are pulling up the right engine and model year when checking timing in VCDS.
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Old March 29th, 2015, 17:59   #4
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Air leak indicated by the air bubbles going to the IP can make for long cranking poor starts when the car has been sitting for any length of time.
Get the timing dialed in and probably seriously consider doing the TB service. If you don't have ironclad documentation it was done at the proper interval and properly it needs to be replaced ASAP. Take no chances with it.
The other codes seem to indicate there may be some issue(s) with boost control. Sort out the other things first and clear the codes to see what comes back.
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Last edited by jettawreck; March 29th, 2015 at 18:01.
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Old March 29th, 2015, 18:03   #5
1gcrazy
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When I pulled timing with vcds, as soon as I clicked go with 000, it sputtered badly. Idle was hunting from 800-1000 and white smoke was coming out pretty good. It looked like I was seafoaming a gas engine. Not sure if yall sea foam the tdi's... Anywho, the change in the motor kind of freaked me out. Wasn't sure if I could do any damage or not by letting it idle while I fumbled aroubd with Vagcom so I rushed through it.
I did click the model with the ALH but not sure if I clicked the correct one since I saw two. Like I said, was in a hurry but I figured since the engine code was the same it wouldn't matter too much. I did try both and got the same result. Maybe I'll retry later tonight.
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Old March 29th, 2015, 19:19   #6
terrydtdi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1gcrazy View Post
When I pulled timing with vcds, as soon as I clicked go with 000, it sputtered badly. Idle was hunting from 800-1000 and white smoke was coming out pretty good. It looked like I was seafoaming a gas engine. Not sure if yall sea foam the tdi's... Anywho, the change in the motor kind of freaked me out. Wasn't sure if I could do any damage or not by letting it idle while I fumbled aroubd with Vagcom so I rushed through it.
I did click the model with the ALH but not sure if I clicked the correct one since I saw two. Like I said, was in a hurry but I figured since the engine code was the same it wouldn't matter too much. I did try both and got the same result. Maybe I'll retry later tonight.
I believe you will want to select the second ALH option down. Since the timing is so far off and while your at it, do a good inspection on the TB components that you can see. One thing of importance is, there is a small metal tab on the back side of the tensioner, you might need a mirror, but check to make sure the tab on the back side of the tensioner is in the slot behind the tensioner. The belt should be very snug.
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Old March 29th, 2015, 19:38   #7
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When you put the engine into basic settings, it chugged and sputtered because the computer was no longer trying to compensate for poor mechanical adjustment.

Check the timing with the lock down tools to be sure the mechanical part is right, then fine tune it using VCDS.

As soon as you get it running properly, change the timing belt system! Neglect here will bite hard and hurt a lot.
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Old March 29th, 2015, 19:54   #8
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Yep. Get the timing sorted then look into the boost control deviation. Check that the turbo actuator moves freely when vacuum is applied. It should start moving at about 3-4 inches vacuum and hit the stop at 18 inches then hold there.
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Old March 29th, 2015, 23:45   #9
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Whoops.

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Old March 30th, 2015, 04:05   #10
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Change of plan.

Do the timing belt now. Do not start it.
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Old March 30th, 2015, 06:32   #11
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Good call Terry. At least they turned it the right direction when tensioning it.
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Old April 1st, 2015, 08:35   #12
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And when the engine almost stalls when you go to Basic settings that is always a bad sign.

X2 on do not drive change timing belt.
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Old April 1st, 2015, 09:02   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curious Chris View Post
And when the engine almost stalls when you go to Basic settings that is always a bad sign.

X2 on do not drive change timing belt.
Can you elaborate on what is happening in this circumstance? I'm not familiar with VCDS (still waiting on funds to purchase).
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Old April 1st, 2015, 09:13   #14
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When the engine is running, the computer has control over the timing. When you put it in Basic Settings, you take computer control away from the timing and it runs on mechanical timing. When the mechanical timing is set right, when you put it in Basic Settings, you don't hear the engine change because the timing is where it should be.
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Old April 1st, 2015, 18:40   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitedog View Post
When the engine is running, the computer has control over the timing. When you put it in Basic Settings, you take computer control away from the timing and it runs on mechanical timing. When the mechanical timing is set right, when you put it in Basic Settings, you don't hear the engine change because the timing is where it should be.
And the reason the engine needs the mechanical (static) injection timing set correctly, even though it is computer controlled when running, is that during the starting process it relies on the mechanical timing up until it is running enough for the ECU to take over that duty. So it has to be set very closely to spec.
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2003 Jetta GLS Black w/leather (New Project Car) fixer-upper w/broken TB
2004 Cadillac SLS (wife's)
1999 GMC Suburban (It's MN-you need one)
197? Shibura 2cyl diesel 4WD tractor-loader/brushhog (very handy unit)
196? International TD340 Dozer-w/Drott 4-in-1 bucket/back ripper attachment
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