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TDI (Diesel) Emissions This is a discussion about emissions from TDI's. Pro's cons of Diesels (including biodiesel) effects on the environment and how they compare to Gasoline and other fuel sources for Internal combustion engines.

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Old July 15th, 2011, 18:59   #1
MacBuckeye
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Default Clean Diesel DPF Data Collection Thread

This thread was started so that members can post information about their DPF’s. This info is obtained using VAGCOM. Using VCDS, select “Control Module”, then “01-Engine”, “Measuring Blocks” or "Advanced Measuring Blocks".
108 or 241 for Oil Ash Volume. 360,365 can also be used.
105 # of requested regens.
Dedending on which car you have, measuring blocks vary. I will update the data table throughtout the month as members post their info here. This is NOT a discussion thread. PM a member if you want to discuss details further.
Only the past 12 months data is showing. For older data, click here.
Entry Format
MemberName:
Model Year:
Model:
Tranny:
Miles:
Oil Ash Volume:
Oil Type: (ex. Castrol LL03, Mobile 1 ESP, etc.)
Avrg. MPG:
Comments: (not required)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Last edited by MacBuckeye; July 11th, 2014 at 08:10.
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Old July 15th, 2011, 19:01   #2
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MemberName: MacBuckeye
Model Year: 2009
Model: Jetta Sedan
Tranny: DSG
Miles: 40,950
Oil Ash Volume: 39 ml
Avrg. MPG: 38.5
Comments: Taken on 9-16-10. I have also included in the spreadsheet all my other readings.
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Old July 15th, 2011, 19:28   #3
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MemberName: wvu tdi
Model Year: 2010
Model: Golf, 4dr
Tranny: 6M
Miles: 23525
Oil Ash Volume: 18ml
Avrg. MPG: group 240 gives me 27L, 550km, and 432 unknown units? 550km/27L = roughly 48mpg. The highest hand calc'd mpg I've seen in the car is 45.6mpg, highest the MFI has shown is 45.3, both during my last tank. Avg mpg for the life of the car so far is 40.3mpg.
No. of regens: 4.0
Current soot load: 15.6
Oil type: Lubro Moly Top Tec 4200 http://www.idparts.com/catalog/produ...oducts_id=1967

Other comments: I turned the car off in the middle of a regen ohhh, a week ago or so? 550km since then seems high, but not by much.

Let me know if there's anything else you'd like to see. I'd be glad to assist
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Old July 17th, 2011, 08:44   #4
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Entry Format
MemberName: TDIFred
Model Year: 2009
Model: Jetta Sportwagen
Tranny: 6M
Miles: 37217 (59895km)
Oil Ash Volume: 30mL
Avrg. MPG: 47 (Imperial gallons) approx. 39 per US gal)
Comments: number of regens 3, fuel consumption since last regen 11.1 l, 200 km since last regen, time 204 (not sure units), DPF soot load, calculated 13.2g, soot load measure 1.2g
Location: ON
Oil: Castrol (dealer-serviced)
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Old July 17th, 2011, 12:07   #5
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Entry Format
MemberName: JSWTDI09
Model Year: 2009
Model: Jetta Sportwagen
Tranny: 6M
Miles: 32,325
Oil Ash Volume: 30
Avrg. MPG: 38
Comments: Mobil 1 ESP oil used since 10k oil change. Most driving is in town with only occasional highway trips.

Have Fun!

Don


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Old July 18th, 2011, 19:13   #6
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Default Our DPF's can't be cleaned... ?

Here's a response I received from a company who services (cleans) DPF's....
"From the pictures in Gxxx Rxxxx tear down of a DPF, it looks pretty much impossible to clean these DPFs as illustrated by it having to be cut it apart. In order to clean effectively, one needs access to both faces of the DPF. I recommend you follow the manufacturer recommendations on low ash oil since by doing so the DPF life will be maximized. Ash will eventually clog a DPF enough to cause increased regenerations. The back pressure sensor cannot tell the difference between ash and soot. It just knows that there is too much back pressure and tells the ECM to perform an active regeneration. This of course only burns off the soot but the ash will remain. Ash is made up of inert inorganic metals and mineral compounds from lubricants and engine wear. Over time the ash will cause the DPF to fail. This looks as though it will be a very expensive replacement and it is unfortunate that the engineers or bean counters didn't feel it was cost effective for them to put a disconnect flange on either side of the DPF to allow for future maintenance. GM did the same thing on their Duramax trucks but Dodge and Ford (with the exception of 2010) made them cleanable."
If this is true and we have to have them replaced, the question now becomes when? At what point does the car stop performing a regen cycle and the DPF cloggs up? I'm going to email a couple dealerships to see if they can shed some light on what the life expectancy is and perhaps what technical specs (amount of oil ash build up??) the DPF can hold before it needs replaced.
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Old July 18th, 2011, 19:36   #7
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I've used Castrol LL03 for the the first 4 oil changes. For my 50k OC, I'll be using Mobil 1 ESP.
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Old July 21st, 2011, 07:40   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBuckeye View Post
Here's a response I received from a company who services (cleans) DPF's....
"From the pictures in Gxxx Rxxxx tear down of a DPF, it looks pretty much impossible to clean these DPFs as illustrated by it having to be cut it apart. In order to clean effectively, one needs access to both faces of the DPF. I recommend you follow the manufacturer recommendations on low ash oil since by doing so the DPF life will be maximized. Ash will eventually clog a DPF enough to cause increased regenerations. The back pressure sensor cannot tell the difference between ash and soot. It just knows that there is too much back pressure and tells the ECM to perform an active regeneration. This of course only burns off the soot but the ash will remain. Ash is made up of inert inorganic metals and mineral compounds from lubricants and engine wear. Over time the ash will cause the DPF to fail. This looks as though it will be a very expensive replacement and it is unfortunate that the engineers or bean counters didn't feel it was cost effective for them to put a disconnect flange on either side of the DPF to allow for future maintenance. GM did the same thing on their Duramax trucks but Dodge and Ford (with the exception of 2010) made them cleanable."
If this is true and we have to have them replaced, the question now becomes when? At what point does the car stop performing a regen cycle and the DPF cloggs up? I'm going to email a couple dealerships to see if they can shed some light on what the life expectancy is and perhaps what technical specs (amount of oil ash build up??) the DPF can hold before it needs replaced.
This is a very big concern IMO. I think it's safe to say that eventually, the DPF will become clogged and need to be replaced, whether that's at 100K or 250K. If they cannot be cleaned as I was hoping, VW better find a way to bring the price of replacing these down to a few hundred rather than thousands. Otherwise I see DPF deletes in many people's future or dumping their CR VW (which is a shame b/c this car is awesome) for possibly Mazda Sky-D.
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Old July 21st, 2011, 15:34   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Absolute Diesel View Post
This is a very big concern IMO. I think it's safe to say that eventually, the DPF will become clogged and need to be replaced, whether that's at 100K or 250K. If they cannot be cleaned as I was hoping, VW better find a way to bring the price of replacing these down to a few hundred rather than thousands. Otherwise I see DPF deletes in many people's future or dumping their CR VW (which is a shame b/c this car is awesome) for possibly Mazda Sky-D.
Agreed. Hopefully a more cost-effective solution will surface as the need increases.
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Old July 22nd, 2011, 15:56   #10
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MemberName: roninwarior007
Model Year: 2010
Model: golf
Tranny: 6mt
Miles: 62263
Oil Ash Volume: 60ml
Avrg. MPG: 42
Comments: just switched to b2-5 most recent fuel up
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Old July 23rd, 2011, 21:03   #11
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So....... based on the data collected thus far, the oil ash volume is building up at a rate of about 10 ml per 10,000 miles. I'm going to take a very uneducated guess and say the DPF can hold at least 1 liter of this crud. A little simple math and...... wait for it......... could it be true?????
1 million miles before the DPF clogs up!!!! OK, let's say it would only hold half that amount (1/2 liter). That still gives us 500K miles before the DPF is clogged. I'm OK with that. What are your thoughts? Even being more conservative would put us around 250K miles. That is still OK in my book. I've never owned a car that long or with that many miles.

Appreciate the data fellas. Hope to see additional member posts as well as future data from you.
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Old July 23rd, 2011, 23:13   #12
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23 July 2011
MemberName: bobt2382
Model Year: 2010
Model: Golf, 4dr
Tranny: 6M
Miles: 16316
Oil Ash Volume: 9ml
Avrg. MPG: 47.16
No. of regens: 3.0, 190 km since last regen
Current soot load: 12.9g
Oil type: Lubro Moly Top Tec 4200 ( have approx 6k miles on this oil)

Other comments: I've turned the car off in the middle of a regen 3 times over the last two months. Use B2-B5 blends and Opti-lube.

24 July, Just returned from a 80 mile trip, mostly highway miles, turned the car off and the fans were running, Checked to see if it was a REGEN or just due to a hot engine. Looks like a REGEN.

Miles: 16396
Oil Ash Volume: 9ml
Avrg. MPG: 47.16
No. of regens: 2.0, 0 km since last regen
Current soot load: 5.0 g

Last edited by bobt2382; July 24th, 2011 at 22:48. Reason: Recent REGEN
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Old July 24th, 2011, 05:18   #13
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MemberName: EJS
Model Year: 2009
Model: Jetta
Tranny: 6A
Miles: 40,485
Oil Ash Volume: 39ml
Requested regens: 3.0, 230 km since last regen
Current soot load: 11.1g
Oil type: Fuch's 507.00 spec, changed @ 39,800

Sorry for being late to the party, been too damn hot to do the scan (car is outside all the time)
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Old July 24th, 2011, 07:34   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBuckeye View Post
So....... based on the data collected thus far, the oil ash volume is building up at a rate of about 10 ml per 10,000 miles. I'm going to take a very uneducated guess and say the DPF can hold at least 1 liter of this crud. A little simple math and...... wait for it......... could it be true?????
1 million miles before the DPF clogs up!!!! OK, let's say it would only hold half that amount (1/2 liter). That still gives us 500K miles before the DPF is clogged. I'm OK with that. What are your thoughts? Even being more conservative would put us around 250K miles. That is still OK in my book. I've never owned a car that long or with that many miles.

Appreciate the data fellas. Hope to see additional member posts as well as future data from you.
IIRC, in VCDS didn't the note say that the range of the Oil Ash Volume was 380 ml? If that is an indication of maximum volume, then that would put the mileage in the 380k mile range at the 10 ml / 10k rate.

Also, VW states:

Quote:
When the load condition reaches 1.59
ounces (45 grams), service regeneration
is no longer possible. Because the
danger of destroying the filter is too
great with this load, the filter must be
replaced.


A quick search indicates the density of diesel soot is usually less than 0.1g/ml. So, a simple calculation shows that 45 g of soot load is (45 g / (0.1g/ml)) = 450 ml. Again, could that be close to the storage volume of the DPF before it needs replaced?

VW's recommended inspection of the DPF data at 120k miles is likely a severe service scenario - like those NYC TDI taxis someone was selling on here a while back which were likely driven mostly in the city and ideling alot. I believe that the life of the DPF under "normal" service conditions is a lot more than the 120k miles.
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Old July 24th, 2011, 14:55   #15
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Plus 3-
Good stuff. For some reason I couldn't get the little "info bubble" to come up while VCDS was running. I'm not sure if the info from VW (45 grams of soot load) is the same as oil ash volume. The soot burns off during regens. Not sure if all of the soot burns off or if a percentage remains. I've watched the soot load measurements increase and then drop back towards zero after a regen. If the measurements are correct, then all the soot is burned, thus a reading of 0.0 after the regen is complete. The lowest soot load measured during my scans was 1.5. Even after a regen it didn't go to 0.0. Soot load calculated does go to 0.0 after a regen. I'm wondering if the "45 grams" VW is referring to is not oil ash volume, but the soot load. If the soot load (either measured or calculated) reaches 45 gr, then an emergency regen is no longer safe. But, as long as the car is able to regen on a regular basis, the soot load would never get this high. The highest my soot load (measured) ever reached was 16.2 gr.
The oil ash volume has never decreased from the few observations/measurements I've taken. I would like to see more gradual increases and not increases of 8-11 ml. in one shot. I guess I'll have to keep the laptop with me more often and get a lot more readings. I sent a PM to a member with a 2009 that has 92K miles on it. I'm hoping he can scan his car and give us the oil ash volume. Doesn't Rod Bearing have a high mileage 2009?
If we can get between 250K - 380K miles out of a DPF that gives us some time to save up for a new one!
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