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Mid-west USA Local discussions for those on the Mid-West US. ( Minnesota, Iowa, Wisconsin, Michigan, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, Nebraska, North Dakota, South Dakota, Kansas, Missouri)

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Old April 22nd, 2009, 14:19   #31
PalosParked
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Jetta09Chicago and Thunderstruck
Hello again....I kinda lost touch with you and this topic after the ULSD station locations thread. I didn't notice this new thread until now.
Yes, I'd like to help out.
Thunderstruck...I'm still using the BP and Ogden and Main, Downers Grove. The BP (Whiting) fuel engineer did convince me not to worry about condensation at the D.G. filling station. I also used some winterized premium I found at the Fullers in Hinsdale (pricey but full service indulgence on a cold winter's day). And the Speedway 898 W Ogden D.G. down the road from the BP is selling the D2.
Back in January when we were all fired up on the ULSD and B11 issue, I contacted my VW dealership to see where the dealership was buying us our first fill up. Turns out my first fill was B11 from Thorntons. So, for me B5 or B11, I kinda think I'm covered by somebody's warranty since then.
Let me share with you how one of my (e-mail) conversations with my dealership went. It's a little long and redundant to this post but it's eaier for me to just cut and paste. Take from it what you will.
Quote:
...I agree that 1 tank of B11 (in an emergency) should be no big deal and probably unavoidable at times.
...I realize that Thorntons is convenient but it probably would be better for a dealer to put the D#2 (no bio, especially not B11)) in there.
...I'm not mad....
...But...I feel that we are partners in this and need to work together for all kinds of reasons.
...Let me offer you the following info to give to other 2009 TDI owners who start freaking out about fuel.
...It's because at most service stations the attendants are clueless about what they are selling. Especially for the winterized stuff. If the pumps are not marked (or you don't look to see the labels) it can be a problem.
...Yes, ...expressway stations are usually good choices. All the BP's in Indiana carry winterized Diesel #2 (Atlas Oil Co. Taylor MI owns them)
...I found a diesel fuel distributor (http://texor.com/) is supplying winterized (-15F) Diesel #2 treated with diesel #1 (70/30 blend) to a Marathon at 16643 S Halsted, Harvey They also supply Fullers in Hinsdale with winterized premium D#2. (D1 and D2 blend)
...I alos learned that Distributor, Atlas Oil Co, http://www.insideindianabusiness.com...m.asp?ID=32283just purchased 57 BP stations on the south and east side. They sell cold flow BP D#2 refined in Whiting. Their closest stations (so far) are; BP, 9545 191st St, Mokena, or BP, 16 E Lincoln, Frankfort. They (Atlas) have big eyes on expansion into the Chicagoland area..That would really help.
...And a friend (Jetta09Chicago) told me that Meijer stores are selling winterized premium D#2.
...Furthermore, a diesel fuel engineer at BP told me that summer diesel from Whiting is cloud rated to +15F. Cold flow winterized is -15F to -20F..
He (BP diesel fuel engineer) also told me that the diesel would float on the water. Diesel does not absorb the water. And the pump fuel suction tube rests at least 8 inches above the bottom of the tank. Only way you'd get water is if something else was wrong with the tank. He went on to say that Powerservice white bottle type stuff will only reduce the cloud point by an additional 10degrees so it's better to buy the winterized fuel.
He also told me that Bio blend fuel up to 5% can be called D#2 with no additional label on the tank (except ULSD of course).
Anything over 5% needs to be clearly labeled as Biofuel. There's no sales tax (6.25%) on bio blends above 10%, Hence the big deal on B11 around here.
Jetta09Chicago, Thank you for carrying on and creating a post location for us to list the (D2)stations as we find them.
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Old April 22nd, 2009, 15:17   #32
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Thumbs up o rly, premium?

brilliant! now we need to find out some cetane ratings. I won't believe any claim of "premium" diesel until I see some convincing proof, or if my car runs noticeably better on it

I want 49+ cetane

when did Fuller's have winterized diesel? I'm assuming this was awhile ago, they can't still have winterized stuff can they?

what do they have right now? non-winterized "premium"? what is the current price per gallon? I paid $2.299 last time I topped-off @ a BP. I would be very interested in running a couple tanks of any alleged premium
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Old April 22nd, 2009, 15:52   #33
PalosParked
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Default Fullers premium D2

Sip'n,
I was in to Fullers only once (2/3/09- and I'm ashamed to say what I paid. It was outrageou$$). It was really cold out and because the D#2 in my car (BP-Ogden and Main) wasn't winterized I splurged on the 'good stuff' to keep me protected. I had called the distributor (got the name off a tanker truck, Texor Petrolium) and spoke to a guy named Arnie. He said that Fullers was not a high volume but that they had recently filled his tank with D1-D2 blend I mentioned. (I didn't think D1 was even available to us until he told me.) At the time I was more concerned with getting non bio diesel and the cloud or gel rating and Arnie and I talked mostly on this subject. They seem pretty open about describing what and to whom they are selling diesel to. You could give them a call to see if they provide the 'premium blend' and the cetane rating. (my winter mpg was down so I can't say I ran any better or worse on it.)

Texor Petroleum Company
3340 South Harlem Avenue
Riverside, Illinois 60546

708-447-1999 Main
708-447-1047 Fax

E-mail to: info@texor.com
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Last edited by PalosParked; April 23rd, 2009 at 09:26.
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Old April 22nd, 2009, 17:16   #34
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Hi, PalosParked . . . I am glad to keep this thread going for us 2009 owners. Thanks so much for your new stations which I will add to the master list on Page 1.

Last edited by Jetta09Chicago; April 22nd, 2009 at 17:42.
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Old April 22nd, 2009, 21:03   #35
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Good to see the thread is still alive. If I ever get a chance I'll check out Speedway on Touhy and the new Shell on 83@Higgins and see what their pumps say. I'll probably leave the car parked until the weekend rolls around and be doing the 2 wheeled thing since the weather has finally gotten nice.
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Old April 23rd, 2009, 10:27   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetta09Chicago
Hi, PalosParked . . . I am glad to keep this thread going for us 2009 owners. Thanks so much for your new stations which I will add to the master list on Page 1.
I'm benefiting from this thread, and I have a 2003
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Old April 23rd, 2009, 10:39   #37
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Hi Sip'n...I am glad you're with us here. While I originally intended to focus on the non-biodiesel issue, it is also helpful to get input on the availability of "premium" diesel locations. As a happy TDI newbie, I want to take great care of my new baby!
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Old April 23rd, 2009, 11:13   #38
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Originally Posted by Jetta09Chicago
Hi Sip'n...I am glad you're with us here. While I originally intended to focus on the non-biodiesel issue, it is also helpful to get input on the availability of "premium" diesel locations. As a happy TDI newbie, I want to take great care of my new baby!
darn tootin', feed your baby only the best! besides premium, I am interested in any non-biodiesel because I just want to know what I'm pumping at any given time/location. this knowledge would be useful if my injection pump starts to leak, for example. it could also explain sudden increases/decreases in tank-averaged fuel economy, etc. I also want to know so I can decide whether or not to use an additive. the list goes on and on...

the bottom line for me is: there is (and has been) a LAW that requires these "jobber's" (I like that term, because that's all they are anyways) to comply with... it's not even a complicated law either... just put a friggin' sticker on there! geez... I think if I had any more free time I would be driving around looking for stations who are not in compliance and notifying the Dept. of Weights n' Measures or whatever the appropriate agency is darn, now I have another hobby!

BTW - I don't know about the 2009s, but I know my car was designed to run on 49+ cetane
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Old April 28th, 2009, 12:46   #39
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Hi all, don't mean to spam (I already started this thread: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=245861), but this thread appears to be very relevant. I'm interested in building a map of addresses/information about stations that you frequent that offer premium grade diesel. I saw a few lists of stations posted earlier, but I only want to add stations that folks on this forum use personally. Let me know your favorite place to fill up!
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I'm trying to map out stations selling premium diesel fuel. Please send information about your favorite local places:
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en...5,41.52832&z=5
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Old April 28th, 2009, 21:38   #40
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Just for grins I topped off this weekend at the new Shell at 83 and Higgins, and neither the pump or receipt said anything about bio content that I could see. I was happy, after a day of rolling around in the burbs I got the fuel economy display up to 48.2 MPG when I filled. Dropped down to 47.1 by the time I got home, but I can't complain.
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Old April 29th, 2009, 10:44   #41
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Thumbs up Premium Non-Biodiesel Stations

I'm glad this thread is useful to 2009 and pre-2009 owners alike, as well folks outside Chicagoland! It would be great to get more listings of premium petrodiesel stations.

I am now updating the master list to add a notation where premium petrodiesel was confirmed. (In scouring throught the messages so far, we have identified one station in Winnetka and one in Hinsdale.)

Please let's try to be judicious when we use the term "premium." It would be best to limit "premium" to describe where a supplier has documented standards (e.g,. higher cetane ratings). However, let's not fall prey to marketing hyperbole when the standards are not documented.
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Old April 29th, 2009, 11:49   #42
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... and we must also realize that if a given station has (confirmed) premium at this time, they may not have the same blend the next time their tanks are filled. if we can find a station who consistently offers premium diesel to consumers, perhaps they could automatically go to the top of the list

BTW - this is all complicated due to the marketing hype surrounding fuel quality. as we know, many stations claim "premium" diesel just because they have a certain additive package and/or bio-diesel blend. so, if we find some premium we should try to get as much info as possible. this could be problematic, for example: I find a station with a 49 cetane rating (confirmed via bill of lading or correspondence with the distributor.) OK. great. well, oops it is 49 cetane but it's also B11. d'oh! maybe that's good for me, but not necessarily good for '09 TDIs.

also, there is the matter of cetane rating versus index. I forget which is which but this is what I know: say D2 from the refinery is X cetane, well we all know that a small (B2?) bio-diesel blend increases the quality (cetane) of the fuel. additive packages also increase quality (cetane.) so, we would want to know before/after numbers, etc

question: what should our benchmark for premium be? 46 cetane? 47 cetane? 48 cetane? etc... would I be "greedy" if I said the minimum benchmark for "premium" should be 49 cetane? it is what my TDI was designed/engineered to run on afterall

FWIW - the gentleman with the 335d in Maryland said his bimmer calls for 51 cetane SHIZE

edit: I'm trying to find a specific thread I read many moons ago. it is basically "cetane rating versus index"
this is all I got so far, from the FAQ:
Quote:
7) Which of the following is false about the cetane rating of a fuel? a) The cetane index is a calculated value using the ASTM mid boiling point and API gravity. b) Aromatic (i.e. benzene-containing) compounds as a rule have lower cetane numbers than liquid paraffinic (i.e. saturated alkyl) hydrocarbons. c) A direct relationship is observed between a fuel's cetane rating and its energy of combustion. d) A correlation is observed between a fuel's cetane rating and its volatility and specific weight.
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Cetane - Diesel fuel is rated in cetane number (roughly analogous to gasoline octane). The common cetane rating is 40 to 45 in North America. A higher cetane rating number indicates a "premium" grade which is not required for the Volkswagen TDi. The use of a higher cetane fuel may increase performance and mileage, but generally costs more per gallon. Decide for yourself if the cost increase is offset by improvements in performance and mileage.
Quote:
Cetane Number/Cetane Index Cetane number is a relative measure of the interval between the beginning of injection and autoignition of the fuel. The higher the number, the shorter the delay interval. Fuels with low Cetane Numbers will cause hard starting, rough operation, noise and exhaust smoke. Current commercial fuel cetane requirements may not adequately address these customer satisfaction issues. Generally, diesel engines will operate better on fuels with cetane numbers above 50 compared to fuels with cetane numbers of the national average of approximately 45.
Cetane number may be increased through the refining process or the blending of combustion ignition improving additives by fuel suppliers.
Cetane index is an approximation of fuel ignition quality through measurement of distillation range and specific gravity. It is not affected by the use of combustion improver additives; therefore it produces an indication of the base cetane number of the fuel. http://www.tdiclub.com/articles/Diesel_Fuel_Guidlines/
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Old April 29th, 2009, 14:16   #43
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FWIW - this is a very relevant link which was posted to popopop77's thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by tditom
you may find this article interesting:
http://www.turbodieselregister.com/a...sel/Page1.html
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Old May 9th, 2009, 18:21   #44
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Unhappy Shell Update--NOT Exclusively Petrodiesel

This is an update to a previous posting dated 4/7/09 regarding Shell diesel in the Chicago area. At that time, Shell's corporate office claimed that all of their Chicago diesel was petrodiesel. Actually I have found that some Shell stations in this area do in fact sell biodiesel.

On 5/8/09 I visited the new Shell at 1805 East Oakton Street in Elk Grove Village. Their diesel pump has a sticker indicating a 6-20% biodiesel blend. Thus, 2009 owners cannot count on Shell being petrodiesel chain-wide.

On the master list, I have removed the link to Shell's station finder. Instead, we will need to list Shell's confirmed petrodiesel locations on a station-by-station basis. Thanks for any suggestions!
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Old May 13th, 2009, 19:54   #45
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Jetta09....I visited the Speedway 6241 S Cass, Westmont..Price$2.259 but the pump is clearly marked bioblend 6 to 20%.
Shell ,210 E Ogden, Hinsdale is selling D2. Price April 28 was $2.299. Super clean and fast pumps clearly marked as diesel...receipt D2.
I'm still looking for that high cetane-premium stuff for Sip'n
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