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Go Back   TDIClub Forums > TDI Model Specific Discussions Areas > VW Passat Family (NMS and B7) TDIs (2012+)

VW Passat Family (NMS and B7) TDIs (2012+) Discussion area for the 2012+ Passat TDI (North American and rest of world versions versions). The North American model was previously codenamed NMS (New Midsize Sedan) and the version the rest of the world gets is sometimes referred to as B7.

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Old March 20th, 2017, 10:43   #1
jw4free
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Default CJAA vs CKRA vs CVCA

The differences between these engines can be found with some searching.

My question is what are your opinions of positive and negatives with respect to each engine.

I'll go first.

I think solenoid injectors are better than Piezo for long term durability.

A separate pumped loop for intercooler temperature control seems like additional complexity without substantial benefit (though the '15 have a phase 1 fix, and the '12-'14 don't).

The CKRA 3 year model run vs. global continued supply is an advantage to CVCA.

I know the CJAA didn't come in a Passat. This isn't really model specific, I just didn't think it was TDI 101 stuff. (move it if you want).

If this post is lame, just don't reply.
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Old June 7th, 2018, 09:05   #2
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What are differences in the engines?
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Old June 7th, 2018, 09:43   #3
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My favorite is the 1Z but that isn't offered anymore...

Simple turbo/wastegate setup, simple exhaust treatment, minimal EGR/CCV/alphabet stuff, easily hardware modifications, and the list goes on.

I miss my old Passat. Wah.
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Old June 7th, 2018, 10:42   #4
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Gen1 Gen2 and Gen3, as listed in the title.

gen2 and i think gen3 use solenoid injectors, gen1 piezos

There are hands down way more Gen1's out there (jettas, wagons, golfs) that have proven pretty good miles under their belts.

Complexity of the later gens went up (especially coolant loops./pumps) which may negate any savings in cheaper injectors.

I don't think anything after the CEBA use a balance shaft, which was a 2009 only run. I could be wrong on this, no balance shaft is better IMO
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Old June 7th, 2018, 13:13   #5
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I believe the Audi A3 used the CBEA through the '14 model year. The CKRA also uses a balance shaft like the CBEA.
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Old June 7th, 2018, 13:15   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 740GLE View Post
<snip>

I don't think anything after the CEBA use a balance shaft, which was a 2009 only run. I could be wrong on this, no balance shaft is better IMO
This self-study document from the thread "2014 CKRA engine diagram or cutaway view" Common Rail SELF STUDY DOC33_IL_40CA_1680_Diesel_Engine_2.0L_TDI_CommonRa il_BIN5_UL.pdf

...shows 2 balance shafts on p. 14. Doesn't look like the CKRA engine on our car in the pix, but elsewhere in that thread, "oilhammer" says the CKRA has a balance shaft, and I'd be inclined to trust his knowledge. I think most of the 4-cylinder cars we've owned have had balance shafts, never a problem, and given what I understand of the issues in balancing these engines, I really don't know how one would dispense with them.
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Old June 7th, 2018, 22:19   #7
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anyone else here the rumor that VW mite look at bringing diesel back again?
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Old June 8th, 2018, 00:31   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrm View Post
anyone else here the rumor that VW mite look at bringing diesel back again?
Why did you post that here?
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Old June 8th, 2018, 03:53   #9
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The CBEA and CJAA are essentially the same, except the CBEA has a balance shaft module. Also the 2009 CBEA cars have a couple other minor differences, most notably the one-piece DPF/catalyst and different pressure sensors.

While the G/J/B switched to the CJAA in 2010, the Audi A3 continued with the CBEA through 2014, but with the updated pressure sensors and two-piece exhaust parts of the CJAA. The A3 also uses a different fuel filter.

CBEA/CJAA use piezo fired injectors, higher rail pressure, and the dual EGR and deNOx catalysts as their only [intended] NOx controls.

They still both use the same style air-to-air charge air cooler as the previous TDIs use.

The CKRA shares hardly any parts with the other engines. It uses solenoid injectors, lower rail pressure, an air-to-water charge air cooler on the intake manifold. In addition to the dual EGR, it also adds SCR. It also has a balance shaft module. It has a different head, turbo, block, timing components, oil filter, fuel filter (like the A3's), etc. than the other engines.

While the CBEA/CJAA have more turbo problems than the older PD and VE TDIs, the CKRA's turbo problems are twice as bad as that. So bad, that a warranty extension was issued for them. They also have DEF tank heater issues, also resulting in a warranty extension. However, the SCR does afford them a wee bit better fuel efficiency, despite moving a bigger heavier car.

The CVCA, while I would not consider it a 100% clean slate engine, is pretty different from the previous versions. It is probably most closely related to the CKRA, although it doesn't really share much of any parts with it.

It has dual balance shafts, but are now in the block. It also adds variable water pump (which has been a weak spot) and variable oil pump (VAG gassers have had these for a decade or so now). The oil filter was moved back down below, the SCR system is completely revamped, with the DEF injector now being up high by the firewall. It also holds more oil.

Given the CVCA was, for us, a one year only, and we only got the "first" year, I suspect there will be a lot of teething troubles with it... some, possibly most, of which have likely been eliminated by now (2018, almost 2019, models), but we of course won't get to experience that. Some of these improvements may even be reverse compatible... so an improved water pump that say came into service half way through the 2016 model year may be able to be installed on a 2015 engine to remedy the premature failures we've seen.

But there may be other issues that will never be able to be easily gotten past. Really a shame, as I think that would have marked the final maturing process of the CR TDI, and by now would probably provide a really stellar engine for someone actually able to purchase a new one.
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Old June 8th, 2018, 04:35   #10
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Thanks for clarifying on the balance shafts. Are you aware of block seals on the balance shaft for the CVCA?

From my limited knowledge of EA888 gassers, there have been a few reported leaks from their seals which are just as bad as RMS to replace. Curious if this may also pose an issue for the CVCA.

I believe the head design between CKRA and CVCA is another revision better for increased EGR cooling and quicker warm up times.
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Old June 8th, 2018, 05:39   #11
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Have not seen any issues with those plugs yet, but have heard of it on the gassers. Of course, the VAG gas engines have so many problems it is hard to keep up with any more. Makes the older gassers' problems seem so trivial in comparison. Man I would not own one of those new ones, LOL.
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Old June 8th, 2018, 09:04   #12
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Lalalala i hear nothing i hear nothing lalalalala
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Old June 8th, 2018, 09:09   #13
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Trust me, as a fan of the brand, it sickens me to no end.
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