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Go Back   TDIClub Forums > TDI Model Specific Discussions Areas > VW Passat Family (NMS and B7) TDIs (2012+)

VW Passat Family (NMS and B7) TDIs (2012+) Discussion area for the 2012+ Passat TDI (North American and rest of world versions versions). The North American model was previously codenamed NMS (New Midsize Sedan) and the version the rest of the world gets is sometimes referred to as B7.

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Old December 5th, 2019, 07:00   #1
Fastbird
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Default Cold Weather Hesitation/Stumble/Knocking, Torque Difference, NO CODES

Same issue I've been dealing with for going on my third winter now. Cold start only, very pronounced diesel nailing, and around 1750 RPM stumbling and hesitating, until engine starts warming up.

Car is NOT hard setting any codes. VCDS will show a pending code for "torque difference" on Cylinder 2 (I believe, been a while since I've looked at it). Symptoms are pointing to a failing injector like many other people have experienced.

HOWEVER......the local VW dealership says their computer shows no pending codes and refuses to even try to diagnose further. They test drive and say it's "normal" or check the oil and say it's slightly overfull and causing the problem.

So my question is......what is the threshold for getting that Torque Difference code to hard set? I've driven the car and had the stumbling so bad the car wouldn't accelerate anymore and no code ever hard set, no check engine light.
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Old December 5th, 2019, 11:44   #2
22eco
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It sounds like the injectors are going bad or at least one. I have dealt with this issue directly. let me guess the issue is only when you first start the car? The dealer cant replicate the issue?

Drop your car off the night before the appointment, leave a note in the car stating for a technician to start the car and drive it right away. They will feel the issue then figure it out from there.
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Old December 5th, 2019, 12:10   #3
Fastbird
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 22eco View Post
It sounds like the injectors are going bad or at least one. I have dealt with this issue directly. let me guess the issue is only when you first start the car? The dealer cant replicate the issue?
Drop your car off the night before the appointment, leave a note in the car stating for a technician to start the car and drive it right away. They will feel the issue then figure it out from there.
Done this. They can never seem to replicate or tell me the hesitation/stuttering is normal as it warms up. The techs are full of.....excrement, even the head tech who said there's no way it's an injector, they don't act like that when failing. Whatever. I'm just trying to get the dang code to hard set so their hand is forced into fixing it under the warranty. Problem is they're the only dealership in the area.
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Old December 5th, 2019, 19:13   #4
06bluebeetletdi
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Drop the car in the dealership parking lot the night before, do not leave your keys, go back in the morning. Insist someone drive it with you with the scan tool connected.
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Old December 6th, 2019, 08:39   #5
22eco
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That’s what I did, I took it to the dealer like 3 times before they figured it out.. You have to emphasize that they drive it right after they start it..
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Old December 10th, 2019, 10:19   #6
rmilchman
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I'm having the same hesitation issue. Dealer told me there are no codes and their is nothing they can do until a CEL comes on. I opened a case with VW, and the car goes back tomorrow. There seems to be several threads around the same topic, all of which point to the Injectors.
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Old December 10th, 2019, 11:05   #7
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You won't get a code to set and here's why

The applicable diagnostic routines in the ecu that relate to this condition are not in effect (aka "released") until the coolant temperature reaches 50C. So there won't be any codes set in the ecu when the car is first started and the engine is cold.

You will have to wait until the injector worsens enough so that the torque difference for the affected cylinder is outside the "accepted" tolerance band so that the ecu recognizes the condition while the diagnostics are operating.

If you want to diagnose which cylinder is unhappy, you will need to find the "inner torque" or "internal torque" in advanced measuring blocks, and compare the readings between cylinders. Should be pretty obvious.

Sadly, until there's a CEL, the injectors are technically "within spec", even though teh nailing is irritating.
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Old December 10th, 2019, 11:08   #8
rmilchman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KERMA View Post
You won't get a code to set and here's why



If you want to diagnose which cylinder is unhappy, you will need to find the "inner torque" or "internal torque" in advanced measuring blocks, and compare the readings between cylinders. Should be pretty obvious.
I'll give this information to the dealer when I drop the car off. I'm sure they won't be happy about me doing so.
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Old December 12th, 2019, 07:24   #9
rmilchman
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Now it's time for the real games to begin. Got a call from the dealer. After working with a VW tech on the phone and running tests the tech recommendation the outcome is to replace the 4 injectors. Since there is no CEL, I'm being told they don't think warranty will cover it (I smell BS). More to come....
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Old December 12th, 2019, 08:06   #10
rmilchman
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Just got a call back, that VW will cover it. Should be installed on Monday, tested Tuesday morning and hopefully the car is mine again Tuesday night.
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Old December 14th, 2019, 06:20   #11
06bluebeetletdi
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Great news
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Old December 19th, 2019, 02:16   #12
Fastbird
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmilchman View Post
Now it's time for the real games to begin. Got a call from the dealer. After working with a VW tech on the phone and running tests the tech recommendation the outcome is to replace the 4 injectors. Since there is no CEL, I'm being told they don't think warranty will cover it (I smell BS). More to come....

Just got a call back, that VW will cover it. Should be installed on Monday, tested Tuesday morning and hopefully the car is mine again Tuesday night.

Sent you a PM.
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Old January 1st, 2020, 06:29   #13
Mikestdi
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Dropped my 12' at the dealer this past Friday for the same issue. Although, I did have a pending P1007 Torque Difference Cylinder 4 code. I have about 1400 miles left on the 4/48 warranty, fingers crossed.
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Old January 1st, 2020, 06:51   #14
06bluebeetletdi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikestdi View Post
Dropped my 12' at the dealer this past Friday for the same issue. Although, I did have a pending P1007 Torque Difference Cylinder 4 code. I have about 1400 miles left on the 4/48 warranty, fingers crossed.
Did you get the letter extending the warranty another 3,000 miles? I received one for my Passat.
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Old January 1st, 2020, 06:53   #15
Mikestdi
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Nope. Did they say what the extension is in reference to?
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