Does Climatronic have aux heat?

CRPauletto

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Dec 9, 2011
Location
Spokane, WA
TDI
2014 Passat TDI SEL & 2012 Jetta TDI DSG Premium
My Passat seems to take forever to heat up, a lot slower than my Jetta. In VCDS the aux heater isn't checked so is there not one installed? I also am not impressed with the blower in the HVAC. Doesn't seem to put out the volume the cheaper Jetta. Other than that it is a great car.
 

vw_norm

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Jul 22, 2012
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Hawaii
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2012 NMS TDI SEL Platinum Gray w/moonrock
My Passat seems to take forever to heat up, a lot slower than my Jetta. In VCDS the aux heater isn't checked so is there not one installed? I also am not impressed with the blower in the HVAC. Doesn't seem to put out the volume the cheaper Jetta. Other than that it is a great car.
Have you cranked the temperature up to HI? My experience has been that in order to get the electric aux heater engaged, the heater temp has to be set at least 10*F higher than the outside air temp. You can also check for the presence of these 3 40A (circled) fuses in the underhood fuse box. They provide the current to the electric heater in the HVAC duct.



The 2 relays circled with red are the relays that control the power to the electric heater. The white one (644) is the high heat relay and energizes 2 elements of the heater through fuses SB 21 and SB 22 and the black relay (645) energizes a single heating element through fuse SB32. It would appear that the relays are controlled in stages, apparently by the temperature setting of the HVAC controls.

 
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VeeDubTDI

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It should absolutely have it. I don't know whether it needs to be checked in VCDS or not...
 

tdiatlast

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I was just out in 18f, Climatronic set on Auto/72. I was surprised/annoyed that the fan stayed at "4" (number of lights) for the entire city drive of about 7 miles. Scangauge ultimately showed 185f, and it was still blowing barely warm air.
Next time I do this, I'll turn the heat to Max and see how quickly the fan slows down.

I don't think the Climatronic is VWoA's best engineering. With our 1993 Audi S-4, we NEVER moved the temp off 75, year round. I recall using the defrost maybe twice. It was balance perfectly, and hardly audible...sigh...go figure...
 

darrelt

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Nov 4, 2013
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Canada
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2013 Passat
This is my first winter with my 2013 Passat and I too have been trying to figure out what is 'normal' to expect for heat in temps below 0c.

Mine takes an extremely long time as well to begin to warm up and I generally understand the difference in the way the diesel generates heat compared to a gasser.

I will be checking for the relays in my car tonight as I also do not seem to be getting any benefit of an aux heater if there is one installed. Given I have a Canadian model, I would expect that there is one, but I'm not sure it is actually working.

At temperatures below 0c my car seldom reaches operating temps of 75c, unless it is doing a regen in which it will reach 85-88c, and then quickly drops back down when finished. I am suspecting a stuck thermostat, but I also understand that 70c is within the 'range' of the factory unit, so not completely sure.

Needless to say, keeping the chill off and the front window clear is a bit of a challenge.

Is anyone aware of a monitored PID or any other way of indicating when the aux heater is on? I use the Torque App and if there is a way, it would be good to have some kind of indicator.

Any suggestions on what might be going on, or what to look for would be appreciated.
 

VernK

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2012 Passat 2.5L Gas
From what I can gather, the fan doesn't run fast to maximize the heating when the coolant is not up to operating temp (slower airflow over the heater core=more time for each molecule to heat up). Now we have a gasser, not a diesel, but our fan cycles to a high speed when the temp gauge hits 75C. In -9C weather, that takes about 7 minutes of city driving.

Yours
Vern
 

VeeDubTDI

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You can view the aux heating element in VCDS directly, if I remember correctly. I don't remember if it tells you how many stages are running or if it tells you the power consumption, but there is something there that you can look at. I guess I'll also have to poke around with VCDS and see if the aux heat checkbox is checked on ours.

I have noticed that the aux heat will run up until a coolant temp of about 166F (based on energy consumption as well as idle speed) as long as there is a significant demand for warm air (cabin temp is below setpoint). Remember that the HVAC controller will command a fast engine idle any time the aux heater is enabled.

I almost always leave the Climatronic in full auto with the AC off (in the winter) and the temp set at 73 or 74. The cabin will heat up slightly faster if I control it myself, but I haven't really been bothered by it in auto mode. I will admit that the programming isn't ideal/perfect in heating mode... I would prefer more center vent flow (only seems to blow heat when it's really trying to heat things up quickly) and more floor airflow (a product of the small duct design).
 
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jck66

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Greenwich, CT, USA
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12 Passat SE / 14 BMW 535d
Set mine at 67 for the winter and I notice that it blows like heck for the first five minutes or so of my return commute, then about the time I get to the highway (2 miles) the fan calms down and the coolant needle has made some progress towards operating temp. This doesn't happen in the morning - I imagine it's because the car is garaged overnight so doesn't see as high a temperature differential (current T vs. setpoint) on startup. Seems consistent with what I'm reading here.
 

dzcad90

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Joliet, IL USA
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Jetta - 97 (RIP), '03 (Sold), '09
So far, this is the first VW we've owned with Climatronic and so far I'm pretty pleased. I leave it set at 72 and let it do it's thing. Granted, we've only had it in the winter but so far so good. I don't really notice anything about the amount of heat nor where it's coming from to need to mess with the dials.


I almost always leave the Climatronic in full auto with the AC off (in the winter) and the temp set at 73 or 74.
Do you just touch the AC button every time, or is there some way to turn it off for the long haul?

I know the AC benefits defrosting, however it seems that Climatronic always has the compressor running. I realize today's compressors take a lot less demand from the engines than those of generations past, however I'd prefer it's not on by default.
 

VeeDubTDI

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You have to press AC to turn if off after pressing AUTO. Not that it runs at this temperature anyway, but...
 

VernK

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Kelowna
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2012 Passat 2.5L Gas
And, to be clear, the compressor does not have a clutch so on or off the compressor still rotates. Being a swash plate design it doesn't pump anything though, so it's not an energy waste beyond a little bearing drag.

Yours
Vern
 

767wrench

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You can view the aux heating element in VCDS directly, if I remember correctly. I don't remember if it tells you how many stages are running or if it tells you the power consumption, but there is something there that you can look at. I guess I'll also have to poke around with VCDS and see if the aux heat checkbox is checked on ours.

I have noticed that the aux heat will run up until a coolant temp of about 166F (based on energy consumption as well as idle speed) as long as there is a significant demand for warm air (cabin temp is below setpoint). Remember that the HVAC controller will command a fast engine idle any time the aux heater is enabled.

I almost always leave the Climatronic in full auto with the AC off (in the winter) and the temp set at 73 or 74. The cabin will heat up slightly faster if I control it myself, but I haven't really been bothered by it in auto mode. I will admit that the programming isn't ideal/perfect in heating mode... I would prefer more center vent flow (only seems to blow heat when it's really trying to heat things up quickly) and more floor airflow (a product of the small duct design).
Just curious how can you tell that the aux heater is running and shutting off at the discussed temps? I've been trying to use different settings feeling the air from the vents and I havent seen any sign of it so far. Ive been freezing for about 15 minutes on these mornings that its - 10 degrees! and thats with my frost heater keeping the coolant temps around 130 at startup
 

VeeDubTDI

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Well... I know because it's doing a fast idle that is commanded by the HVAC controller at the temps I discussed above. You can monitor it in VCDS, as I said. Once you know what you're looking for, it becomes more apparent when you're just driving around without VCDS.

A lot of people think that the aux heater is going to blast them with heat. It doesn't. It only makes the TDI blow out approximately as much heat as an equivalent gasoline-powered car. If you were to pull the fuses out for the aux heater, you would know what I'm talking about. If you've ever driven an ALH in the winter, you'll also know what I'm talking about (because you'll freeze your ass off!). :)

767wrench: Does your car idle at 800 RPM or almost 1000 RPM when the HVAC is on and the engine is below 166?
 

VeeDubTDI

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Also try this... turn the HVAC system OFF. You should hear a relay click under the dash accompanied by a drop in idle speed. When you turn it back on, you'll hear the same click and the idle will slowly increase about 150-200 RPM. That's the aux heater doing its thing.
 

767wrench

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I know it does idle around 1000 when cold. I havent tried turning the HVAC off Ill have to do that. I just thought that was keeping the engine warm similar to my powerstrokes high idle in the cold
 

oilhammer

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outside St Louis, MO
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There are just too many to list....
My diesel B5 Passat warms the cabin quicker than the 2.5L gasser NMS Passat I rented a while ago. So I think some of it may just be the HVAC/car design, and not so much the engine's ability to make (or not make) waste heat.

Although it was not like I was 'cold' inside, though. But I remember thinking that maybe they should have installed the electric heater in the gassers, too. :p
 

Herkguy

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minneapolis
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2013 passat SE sun/nav
767 the aux heater should be able to warm you up in -10 weather without issue. My TDI is an SE with the manual system ( I know you are auto system) but we have been sub zero for most of the last 2 months in the morning and my car will give me warm air from the vents in the first minute of driving. I have it set to full hot to combat the -20 incoming air.

The one thing I wish was available was a blend function of outside/recirc instead of having to choose one or the other. In recirc It tends to fog a little and in deep - numbers it takes a lot to heat the outside air.
 

CRPauletto

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2014 Passat TDI SEL & 2012 Jetta TDI DSG Premium
Thanks for all your help. I finally just checked and mine does have the fuses. I have been driving the car with the temp set to "Hi" and controlling the fan manually. I will finally get comfortable after 30+ minutes. Will it do better in auto? Never have tried it. I guess that is the price to pay for a car that barely uses any fuel.
 

VeeDubTDI

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Thanks for all your help. I finally just checked and mine does have the fuses. I have been driving the car with the temp set to "Hi" and controlling the fan manually. I will finally get comfortable after 30+ minutes. Will it do better in auto? Never have tried it. I guess that is the price to pay for a car that barely uses any fuel.

Try it in auto... It probably won't be much different. Worth a shot though.
 

767wrench

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Also try this... turn the HVAC system OFF. You should hear a relay click under the dash accompanied by a drop in idle speed. When you turn it back on, you'll hear the same click and the idle will slowly increase about 150-200 RPM. That's the aux heater doing its thing.
I had some time and experimented today. With coolant temp between 90 Fahrenheit and 130 or so the car idled at 980 continously. I tried switching off Hvac and there was no change in rpm. I looked in VCDS and didn't see anything to watch the aux heater but I may have missed it. Is it in the hvac controller under measuring values? also I havent seen a place to click installed or not installed yet. It does have the fuses and relays mentioned. All I know is this car would never be warm if I wasn't doing highway commutes every day!
 

VeeDubTDI

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That's interesting, although I'm not sure why you're getting those results. I'll get a video of ours today to demonstrate. Perhaps we'll even get some VCDS screen shots.
 

MichaelB

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SE Wisconsin
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I had some time and experimented today. With coolant temp between 90 Fahrenheit and 130 or so the car idled at 980 continously. I tried switching off Hvac and there was no change in rpm. I looked in VCDS and didn't see anything to watch the aux heater but I may have missed it. Is it in the hvac controller under measuring values? also I havent seen a place to click installed or not installed yet. It does have the fuses and relays mentioned. All I know is this car would never be warm if I wasn't doing highway commutes every day!
My observations are that the auxiliary heater will not warm up the cabin but it will defrost the windshield rather than waiting for the engine to come up to temp to do so.
 

VeeDubTDI

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I tried turning off the HVAC with the coolant temp below 120 an the RPMs did not drop. We did have other accessories on including the heated seats. Doing some VCDS logs in a few minutes when we head back home.
 

767wrench

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Got into VCDS Tonight. I found the box to check for aux heater installed in the engine module under long coding. I tried to check the vox as installed and it reports an error saying the request is out of range.
 

VeeDubTDI

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We fiddled around with VCDS and got it to show the measuring blocks that supposedly monitor the aux heater. Unfortunately, they didn't change while we were monitoring it, so I'm not really sure if they are reporting correctly or if there are other measuring blocks that we haven't found yet.
 

beanieboy182

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i have had a chance to use vcds and look at how my auxiliary electric heater works...
it only turns on when the AC (Econ light OFF) is activated and heating turned up quite a lot nearly all the way to 26oC
i have the model without climate controls and only the 3 dials (temp - fan speed - location)
with just using econ (light on) mode and turning heat up to max + fan up to full speed does not engage the electric heater and you will have to wait for the engine to come up to temp before getting any warm air.

Im wondering if there is a way to tell VCDS of HVAC to engage the electric heater without the AC being on ?
(say if heat is set to 26oC and fan is set to on) then turn the electric heater on?
that would be an ideal world im guessing.

anyone have any info on this ?
 

VeeDubTDI

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i have had a chance to use vcds and look at how my auxiliary electric heater works...
it only turns on when the AC (Econ light OFF) is activated and heating turned up quite a lot nearly all the way to 26oC
i have the model without climate controls and only the 3 dials (temp - fan speed - location)
with just using econ (light on) mode and turning heat up to max + fan up to full speed does not engage the electric heater and you will have to wait for the engine to come up to temp before getting any warm air.

Im wondering if there is a way to tell VCDS of HVAC to engage the electric heater without the AC being on ?
(say if heat is set to 26oC and fan is set to on) then turn the electric heater on?
that would be an ideal world im guessing.

anyone have any info on this ?
That isn't my experience at all, but I have Climatronic (which is what this thread is about). So I don't know. Also, some of the aux heat measuring blocks in VCDS don't seem to change they way they should, so they might not be reading the right things.
 

beanieboy182

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that could be the difference between non climatronic and climatronic systems.
Its very odd how and why they would install a electric in cabin air vent heater if only will work with the A/C turned on ?
I know this could be a defog feature for the windows but i think it should work without the A/C draining your fuel tank just to turn on a electric in cabin air vent heater.

If i had a car with climatronic i could test it out but sadly i dont :(

I did start wondering if one of my 40 amp fuses were gone by the battery fuse box but then thought wouldn't vcds show a fault code if it wasn't working correctly.
 

TheGrove

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As was pointed out earlier - just because the light is lit doesn't mean the A/C is running. It just means the system will engage the A/C if it needs it. And the A/C unit is not either on or off but is a variable system that varies the load as well. The impact on mileage is almost negligible. And believe me you want the A/C for the defrost! I turned mine off a couple weeks ago and within seconds the windows fogged up so I almost couldn't see even with the fan on high.
 
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