Chinese Manufactured ALH/BEW/BRM Oil Pumps

Some time ago when reordering stock of oil pumps, we were sent some that didn't come in the same boxes that we were used to. The pumps appeared to have some manufacturing differences and worse, they were poorly made.
This first picture is not from excessive duration or trash that went through the pump. We took off a poorly hardened internals and after few thousand miles, this is what we saw...

The teeth of the pump were worn and pitted after short service. We removed the pump due to low oil pressure.

In order to spot these pumps, we have some pictures of the housing and especially, the gears, which are not made like the OEM pumps. First, a picture of a genuine pump.

the pump is distinguishable by the engraved 'Feintool' sprocket and the plastic alignment roll pins. Like it or not, the genuine roll pins are black plastic.

Here are some pics of oil pumps that are forgeries. The first is the sprocket, which is not only obviously heat treated, but the 'Feingold' labeling is laser etched rather than deeply stamped in the metal.


Here are some pics of the body of the the knock-off pump.



There are two other notable problems with the pump. On several of the pumps, the center lobe was cut off-center, so that the pump lobes struck each other at one point and had a .012" gap on the opposite side. Also, the sprocket bolt was little more than hand tight. The genuine pumps have the sprocket bolt assembled so tight that it takes some heat and persuasion to remove.

If you receive a pump like this, be forewarned, the quality is poor and may lead to the destruction of an engine. We have seen this same pump sold by our favorite CRAP distributor.

The last two photos of the body, are they also the photos of the forgeries?

crawdaddy said:

The last two photos of the body, are they also the photos of the forgeries?

Click to expand...

That's how I read what Frank posted.

Makes me so spitting mad. We need to put some real teeth in our import/export trade agreements. China needs to start putting people that sell such obvious forgeries in prison.

For a real treat google myturbodiesel.com and many times the first hit is an add with Prothe selling rebuilt turbos for $349. Haven't seen the add lately. Prothe must be waiting for another shipment of his signature TDI destroying turbos.

Yes. The pictures at the bottom of my post are knock-off pumps. I will edit the entry for clarity.

The one glaring difference in the pumps are:
1. The steel alignment roll pins
2. loose torx bolt
3. laser etched sprockets.

We have seen a version of the Feintool sprocket that is not imprinted the same and suspect it as a forgery. The other strangely glaring issue is that the finish of the OEM pump is not a good as the knock-off. I believe the Germans spend the effort on the internals, not the housing.

I also mentioned the sprocket bolts on the 'real' ones is so tight that we have broken the 45 torx getting them off.

As for getting the Chinese to 'cease and desist' is not going to happen any more than 'intelligent property' means anything to them. The only way that a vendor can expect to work with the Chinese is to hold some threat of reprisal or, in one associates case, 'run the company store'. There is a company we know that hires, fires and quality controls the business they run in China. Otherwise, you have to hold enough power in volume and threat of going to another Chinese competitor to hold them in check.

Many of the well-known companies we deal with are having product produced in China. They have to give up trade secrets and suffer theft of some of the sales from the same Chinese that produce product for them.

We had an offer to buy Chinese Garrett turbos a few years ago. The offer was that the Chinese were making exactly the same turbo for Garrett, only "...one line, they produced for their own sales." I checked back several months later with the person offering those turbos and he said they had substituted a different compressor wheel. NO THANKS

WOW, they even cast VW's part number, is that also the right #?
I watched few Youtube videos last night, their is nothing they don't copy. Even making fake food, eggs, plastic rice, pull pork (made from cardboard), grapes etc.
Just wait until chinese made cars come to north america, it will happen one day, just watch.

But then again, if nobody bought this crap, it would dry up quickly . . .

tadawson said:

But then again, if nobody bought this crap, it would dry up quickly . . .

Click to expand...

This!

How certain are you (we) that these aren't cast from retired German molds, molds that were shipped out for scrap and smelting?
Or that they aren't Chinese VW made and intended for their domestic market?

The trouble with Global Manufacturing to save on import and export costs, and to use locally sourced components for locally made items for local markets, is that there is, has been, and will continue to be, fundamental differences in what is considered "quality".
A definition of 'quality' is fitness or suitability for use. That oil pump worked for a few thousand miles. In some world markets that few thousand miles might well be a 'lifetime' and acceptable. In some others it is not.
Think of that the next time you balk at full price and find the 'same' item for $15 less elsewhere. Never forget that it was still profitable to make that item at that lower price. Now ask yourself how that was possible.

On the flip side, there are so many parts that are relabeled and sold for more. Lots of "dealer" parts that are straight MSRP pricing are relabeled/boxed manufacturers.

As an example get a bearing at the dealer for $225 or get the exact SKF/INA/FAG bearing for $75 elsewhere. That is just a random numbers example that I have seen over and over again with many dealers.

So, one has to balance this with care, as these "cheaper" alternatives can work well if you know what you are doing. Also there are a lot of parts that if name in china would have no ill effect as they are simple non-essential items.

Anyway, just don't write off every "cheap" out in the wild...

The more I know about the methods of the Chinese, the less I like them. We have a family member that is in the country, trying to help them improve themselves. Unfortuately the average Chinaman attitude is, 'Enough to get by' is plenty good. There is seemingly little effort in pride of workmanship.

As for what the Chinese copy, I have no doubt they will copy anything. They don't need to buy old molding equipment. They make the whole thing themseles. The 'look' is more important than the 'effect'. The body of the pump is a much cleaner mold than the Germans would bother with. A rough casting with the money spent on the internals is more what you will see with an OEM pump.

What is more irritating is that we had to pick out these counterfeit Chinese parts from the total order that we made...like we wouldn't notice the difference. The State-side vendors are part of the problem trying to see what they can foist onto the American consumer who would not know the difference. That is underhanded.

As for what you say, Keaton, we very often buy from the manufacturers of OEM parts, rather than buying VW labeled parts. We buy the same parts, only without the VW logo on it which makes some people feel more comfortable that it's 'the real thing'.

We have seen OEM forgeries that the bag and the label cost more than the part inside. Last year at the AutoMechanika, Germany, the German police were confiscating knockoff parts and arresting the vendors at the exhibit. I can't say that all were far Eastern, but a large percentage were Chinese. It's about time ...

I understand that counterfeit parts are a big problem for planes in addition to cars. No way would I buy any parts or tools manufactured in China.

Buying Chinese made mud flaps or fuzzy dice is about as far as I would be willing to go. However on the flip side I just replaced a rear wheel bearing hub on my 05 golf. I had a big disappointment when I saw Made in China on the side of the FAG bearing and box that I had deliberately went out of my way and paid more for so I wouldn't have to deal with C.R.A.P. I installed it so time will tell I suppose.

When even historically trustworthy companies farm out their supply to China, what can you do?

G.E. pulled their appliance (dishwasher, I recall?) manufacturing out of China a couple of years ago because of quality problems. They relocated it back to their old large facility in Kentucky.

I was at a plant that made expensive boat trailers in the southeast a few months ago. The production manager was buying brake calipers (pre-assembled) from China. His scrap rate was upwards of 50% due to leakers and frozen pistons. They tested all of them before installation. I asked if he returned the bad ones and he said no. Apparently, they were cheap enough to just write them off and scrap them.

aja8888 said:

G.E. pulled their appliance (dishwasher, I recall?) manufacturing out of China a couple of years ago because of quality problems. They relocated it back to their old large facility in Kentucky.

AndyBees said:
About 4 years ago, we purchased a "replacement" Maytag dishwasher. The box clearly stated Made in USA. When I opened the box and set the unit so I could connect pipes, hoses, etc., there ........ label said: Made in China. ......... and it has been CRAP.

I was at a plant that made expensive boat trailers in the southeast a few months ago. The production manager was buying brake calipers (pre-assembled) from China. His scrap rate was upwards of 50% due to leakers and frozen pistons. They tested all of them before installation. I asked if he returned the bad ones and he said no. Apparently, they were cheap enough to just write them off and scrap them.

Click to expand...

And, on the flip side, I picked up a pair of rear brake cylinders at Advance (ordered the day before) .......... Made in China. Since I had already removed the old ones, I took them (well over priced at $56 and change for the pair). Well, now, 7 years later, they are working fine with no leaks. But, again, way over-priced!

Tdijarhead said:

Buying Chinese made mud flaps or fuzzy dice is about as far as I would be willing to go. However on the flip side I just replaced a rear wheel bearing hub on my 05 golf. I had a big disappointment when I saw Made in China on the side of the FAG bearing and box that I had deliberately went out of my way and paid more for so I wouldn't have to deal with C.R.A.P. I installed it so time will tell I suppose.

When even historically trustworthy companies farm out their supply to China, what can you do?

Click to expand...

Not everything manufactured in China is junk. It all depends on the quality control requirements put in place by the named manufacturer. Take a close look at an Apple iPhone or Mac computer. Your FAG bearing will be fine as long as it was actually manufactured by their facility in China.

1854sailor said:

Not everything manufactured in China is junk. It all depends on the quality control requirements put in place by the named manufacturer. Take a close look at an Apple iPhone or Mac computer. Your FAG bearing will be fine as long as it was actually manufactured by their facility in China.

Click to expand...

That's what makes it so hard to gauge the quality of manufactured parts and goods. Unless you are like Apple and others, of which have successful Chinese plants and quality control systems, you can get easily fooled. A prime example of this is the oil pump Frank based this thread on.

Not too long ago, I bought a new "VW" door switch for my MKV on eBay for $100. We all know they cost $200+ everywhere else. It looked fine, but once installed, it did not work (Chinese knock off). Go figure, right? I got a refund, but not without threatening the seller that I was going to "open a case" with eBay. So I bought the $200+ switch and all was good.

Buying parts, we have to be careful.

Not related to cars ,but scary anyway

My leukemia med has its active ingredients made in china. It costs $9600/month. My druggist says - don't worry, but I do. At least my insurance pays for all of it.

In my opinion, China specifically has nothing to do with it. If anything, the root of this problem is right here in the USA. I call it the "Race to the bottom" - Who can make the part the cheapest so "I" can make the most profit. Most consumers shop on price alone so if someone else has the "same" part a couple bucks cheaper, that's what they buy. The part meets some random specification or is "ISO Certified" and comes with a warranty/guarantee/etc and some slick marketing so the typical consumer buys with confidence. This causes all the businesses in the middle to go all short sighted and freak out when their competition is selling the parts cheaper, so they go looking for a yet lower cost supplier so they can maintain sales/profits for the next quarterly review, etc and round and round it goes on a "Race to the bottom" of who can supply the part at the lowest cost.

Some of the best suppliers are Chinese based and they deliver phenomenal quality parts at much lower cost than the US/European based suppliers. And like any good customer, you must have regular quality audits of your suppliers and do all the due diligence up front to insure that you're going to get a quality part every time. All of this has nothing to do with where in the world the parts are made and everything to do with setting and maintaining high quality standards for your suppliers. Some business is lost to competitors who are willing to cut corners and some are OK with that as they won't compromise quality to meat a price target. You need to work harder to engineer a higher value or lower cost design or process that has equal or better quality and lower cost solution. Yes, it's a lot of work and it costs some money to do this, but it's an essential cost of doing business and being able to sleep at night.

Don't think that this phenomenon exists only at the retail level on parts you buy every day at WalMart, AutoZone, Harbor Freight, etc - it exists in all aspects of business with the biggest and most respected brands in the industry.
We get letters from customers that are sent to all suppliers stating that they must deliver 5% cost reductions each year or lose the business. This creates incredible pressures to take the easy path and pass this on to the next supplier in line and say "make this cheaper or lose the business", and so on down the line creating the race to the bottom mentioned above.

If we as consumers just had a way of knowing/trusting that we were getting a quality product and what corners were/were not cut or what mandates came down from some company executive who has tunnel vision of meeting this quarters financial performance for their shareholders, etc.

I too purchased a window regulator switch on e-bay, made in China. It did not fit properly and the passenger side did not function correctly. Sad thing is, this same e-bay seller is a respected vendor here on Fred's. I had to peel off his label to read the "Made in China".
By doing so voided any warranty. I managed to fix the OEM switch, cleaning and retightening is what it took.
I am typing this post on my new to me Lenovo, Made in China, lap top; LOL.

There is a reason Russians do not sell the Chinese their latest jet engines
They copy and make everything with the cheapest materials

As stated, not everything coming from china is junk, a lot of parts that our trusted suppliers on here sell, are made in china. Lemforder, FAG, Bosch, Topram and Febi/Bilstein to name a few of the bigger ones, these companies use different manufactures to produce the same parts, there are also different tier levels of quality offered. Price equals different materials used. Manufacturing happens all over the world, china, russia, mexico, hungary, germany, poland, taiwan etc...

To have a good product, It's all about quality control.

Yes, you can buy a turbo from china and it will work and last just like OEM, it all depends on how it was made(materials, quality control).

We want cheap parts that will last as long as the original, unfortunately, this costs money to do, research/design, making quality molds, using quality materials.

The parts suppliers here, buy from distributors/wholesalers/Importers and so they are at the mercy of them selling/getting them quality parts. Stay with a Parts supplier that has a good reputation for carrying quality parts(even if some are made in china).

Even VW dealers buy from wholesalers to make money over having to buy directly from VW at a ridiculous markup, even though they won't admit to it.

Within the last 5 years, Garrett started making Chinese manufactured turbos. I got an offer to buy some that came from the same Chinese manufacturer who was producing 'their own line' along side the Garrett brand...same stuff...$300 cheaper. I told the middleman I'd check back.

Six months later, I called and the middleman said, "They changed the compressor wheel."

I never called again.

We have family members in China. Their opinion of the Chinese is that they are hard to love and prone to do the minimum to get by. I agree, not all that they make is trash. But there is an overwhelming amount of material that they copy, knock-off and cheat to make. In general, I find them untrustworthy. It would be better if we stopped the 'race to the bottom'. I get what is wrong with the US for doing that. It's basic greed.

Last year at the AutoMekanica in Germany, the German police were confiscating Chinese counterfeit parts and arresting the representatives at the show. All I can say is, it's about time.

As for the Chinese, if their honesty and pride would show through, we wouldn't have all that hacked up CRAP coming into the US and they would put the US into a tailspin.

The Wall Street Journal published an article that was posted here at least two years ago, called, "Quality Fade", which is a rampant disease in the mentality of the Chinese to provide a good prototype part, get it accepted, then immediately spiral into junk that is poor quality, as they DO NOT APPARENTLYCARE.

And poor quality can crop up at any time. A friend of mine nearly had his arm severed when the Chinese replaced a stainless steel rivet with an aluminum rivet in a variable pitch performance radiator fan. He nearly bled out before he got to the hospital. The Chinese are about meeting quotas, not necessarily quality.

Last example: Got some poorly made 4340 rods several years ago. I complained with a laundry list of errors to the company. The president of the company said he would call back after speaking with the manufacturing company. His report..."The person responsible has been punished." I was a bit stunned. I said, "I guess that's how they handle things in China." He said, "I guess so." I probably got some poor sucker pilloried. I will not do business with that company ever again.

I wish this were simple. I do not think going back to the dark ages of isolation with the Chinese is the answer, but at the same time, the Chinese are not our friends and we should not treat them as if they are. Their goods need to be treated with suspicion way too often.

So the million dollar question is, where did you get the oil pump(s) from?

Franko6 said:

Within the last 5 years, Garrett started making Chinese manufactured turbos. I got an offer to buy some that came from the same Chinese manufacturer who was producing 'their own line' along side the Garrett brand...same stuff...$300 cheaper. I told the middleman I'd check back.

Six months later, I called and the middleman said, "They changed the compressor wheel."

I never called again.

We have family members in China. Their opinion of the Chinese is that they are hard to love and prone to do the minimum to get by. I agree, not all that they make is trash. But there is an overwhelming amount of material that they copy, knock-off and cheat to make. In general, I find them untrustworthy. It would be better if we stopped the 'race to the bottom'. I get what is wrong with the US for doing that. It's basic greed.

Last year at the AutoMekanica in Germany, the German police were confiscating Chinese counterfeit parts and arresting the representatives at the show. All I can say is, it's about time.

As for the Chinese, if their honesty and pride would show through, we wouldn't have all that hacked up CRAP coming into the US and they would put the US into a tailspin.

The Wall Street Journal published an article that was posted here at least two years ago, called, "Quality Fade", which is a rampant disease in the mentality of the Chinese to provide a good prototype part, get it accepted, then immediately spiral into junk that is poor quality, as they DO NOT APPARENTLYCARE.

And poor quality can crop up at any time. A friend of mine nearly had his arm severed when the Chinese replaced a stainless steel rivet with an aluminum rivet in a variable pitch performance radiator fan. He nearly bled out before he got to the hospital. The Chinese are about meeting quotas, not necessarily quality.

Last example: Got some poorly made 4340 rods several years ago. I complained with a laundry list of errors to the company. The president of the company said he would call back after speaking with the manufacturing company. His report..."The person responsible has been punished." I was a bit stunned. I said, "I guess that's how they handle things in China." He said, "I guess so." I probably got some poor sucker pilloried. I will not do business with that company ever again.

I wish this were simple. I do not think going back to the dark ages of isolation with the Chinese is the answer, but at the same time, the Chinese are not our friends and we should not treat them as if they are. Their goods need to be treated with suspicion way too often.

Click to expand...

Ever read the book "Poorly made in China" by Paul Midler? It's a first had account of a poor bugger that had to work with the Chinese companies and the tricks, lies, and games they played to increase profits at the expense of the purchaser. Anyone who has not, I suggest you give it a read . . .

- Tim

I buy from auto part house wholesalers in the US and Europe. The large names are really no secret and I buy in multiples to reduce the cost per unit. We have no compunction returning any bad parts and warning wholesalers against such repeat performance. We also deal with a specific salespersons with whom we create a relationship and who knows that we are sticklers for 'genuine'. Believe me, this makes a difference. A repeat customer for any marketing department is all about 'keeping the customer happy.' They keep me happy, I keep you happy.

The best thing I can suggest is to deal a seller who has a good reputation. That is not a 100% guarantee, but it can help. Stay away from the large automotive brick and mortar chain stores. This is very unfortunate as it is pervasive in in the large chains to compete in the aforementioned race to the bottom.

Most important, look for name brands that are known quality. Bosch, Mahle, Kolbenschmidt, INA, Graf, Dayco, etc. Be suspicious of brands like Febi, as they produce nothing and are middlemen for the cheapest unit cost they can extract. Examine parts and compare to your OEM part. Suspicion is wise. We try to buy parts made by the suppliers for VW, but not directly from VW, as all that gets us is a middleman markup.

Frank, I know you're aware that all of the manufacturers you name have plants in China. I have no problem with that, as they're well-regarded companies that will protect their brand and stand by the quality of their products. But if you want nothing from China, you might be disappointed in those names. Behr, Valeo, Mann, Zimmermann are a few more.

I am not so foolish to think nothing good comes from China. I also realize that there are problems with way too many Chinese parts. The biggest problem is those who would make you think you are getting 'the real thing' and charging you as if you did. If the parts were priced according to cost of manufacture, perhaps a drop of 50% or more would be in order.

Within the last few years, we were rejecting Garrett turbos that came out of China or Mexico. The Mexican versions were assembling Chinese parts. The units had high failure rates, compared to the European manufacture of the same units.

Kolbenschmidt last year or two, made a bunch of BEW camshafts in China. We ended up with some as a completion of an order. We had them hardness tested. The camshaft lobes Rockwell C was 44. The journals were 24. We blew the whistle on them. I am afraid there are a lot of total CRAP camshafts sold by retailers who do not check their parts. Did you check your stock, Peter? We check any Kolbenschmidt cams for country of origin.


If you remember, I was also very happy to put the end to one 'artist'. JB Morrison was selling Bosch knock-offs with extreme failure rates. When I approached the Bosch representatives, they provided me with conclusive evidence that the numbers listed on those nozzles were completely bogus. When I offered up the information to the TDIClub, JB Morrison vanished. This was a good thing.

I will agree, there are good Chinese facilities. We have dealt in the past with one of the first auto parts manufacturers we ever heard of in China, making Chevy race parts. They placed the facility and did all the QC in the plant. Still do it today, after many years. That is how quality is done; by someone who is interested in the product; not the profit. Actually, when you finally figure it out, quality and profit are, in the long run, the same.

What is irksome about the Chinese mindset is they are given a contract to produce parts, then they are given trade secret information to produce the parts, they waste little time using the information against the company that trusted them and compete directly.

tadawson said:

Ever read the book "Poorly made in China" by Paul Midler? It's a first had account of a poor bugger that had to work with the Chinese companies and the tricks, lies, and games they played to increase profits at the expense of the purchaser. Anyone who has not, I suggest you give it a read . . .

- Tim

Click to expand...

I read it last year. Great book. It really explains the how manufacturing business is done over there. They can make good stuff when they want to, but they often times do not. The book explains why.

Franko6 said:

Kolbenschmidt ... made a bunch of BEW camshafts in China. We ended up with some.... We had them hardness tested. The camshaft lobes Rockwell C was 44. The journals were 24. We blew the whistle on them.

Click to expand...

I'm not a metalurgist, so I need to understand why that is a problem.
The PD cam journals are much less suceptible to the effect of friction wear due to having much, much softer sacrifical bearing shells (unlike the no-shell 1Z/AHU/ALH cam). The cams are less brittle and suspect to fracture due to the lower level of hardness in areas where hardness isn't as critical.
The lobes need the hardness, and the trade-off of risking chipping is more than off-set by the much longer life, but the journals?
I honestly don't recognize a lesser hardness in a less critical wear area as a detriment. I'd like your explanation as to why you consider it to be one.
P.M. or use my e-mail address under my name if the explanation is too lengthy or technical for the forum.

Then let me tell you why we do the chrome-plating, off topic or not. The rockwell hardness of the plating is 75C, which is not the main point, but the smoother, more friction resistant, better heat transfer of the chrome is a parasitic drag improvement. It's a racing improvement. The soft cam bearings are supposed to blend into the cam journal to create a perfect face to carry the oil wedge from the top bearing. There should be no contact, but as anyone can see, that is difficult with the poorly supported lower bearing shell in a PD engine. We try to enhance to ability for the cam to carry load.

You are right, the extremity of journal hardness it is not as critical an area, but it is NOT SUPPOSED TO BE SOFT! 22 is soft. 44 on a lobe is soft. Also, the blending of the bearings to the journals and the blending of the lobes to the cam followers, in theory, should not be metal to metal contact. There is an oil wedge which is supposed to maintain an oil separation. That is why the proper viscosity oil is so important and the quick movement of oil through the bearings is also important. Cooler oil maintains better viscosity and therefore, maintains the proper lubricity and lubricity is about keeping the metal and friction minimized. The metals are not supposed to touch. If they did not have an oil film, the cam and lifters wouldn't last 15 minutes.

A properly hardened PD lobe is between 59-61C. As an example, the Cummins cam is harder; usually around 65-68, but you are exactly right, that there is a risk of fractures, more fissures into the top of the lobe. Too hard can be a problem like too soft a lobe.

We found another vendor that sells the oil pump that we received that had metal roll pins. You can buy it for the best price on any of Peter Rothenbacher's sites. I think it was about $38. You get what you pay for... you pay for what you get.