FYI: DPF regen info from my '09 TDI

8an05

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Welcome to the club

To clean out DPF on TDI take it off wash it out water.
Thanks for the welcome :)

So can the DPF be cleaned up like that? So, what's the point of geting anxious about its regeneration, if one can simply clean it like that?
 

MonsterTDI09

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Thanks for the welcome :)

So can the DPF be cleaned up like that? So, what's the point of geting anxious about its regeneration, if one can simply clean it like that?
You want regen if not it will clog up.Then you drop the exhaust and clean out.
 

Samcar222

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Interesting data I'm collecting.. We just filled up the JSW after a tank which included 360 miles of highway driving.

Question (rehtorical, perhaps) - it must have undergone a passive (?) regen at some point of those highway miles, right?

- So when we get back home, about 200 more around town (I don't baby the car..) miles through a week of time, up to 557 miles - we fill up with diesel, and a few blocks before I pull into my driveway (after fillup), I notice it's holding 3rd gear. So I knew it was under an active regen.
Do these regen intervals seem about right? Is there a difference in effectiveness (in terms of amount of soot burned) of the two types of regens? Aka, two (that I noticed) regens of a different variety (?) are ok on one tank (of "only" 550 miles)?


Oh, and it was 93 F ambient outside, and nothing melted!!! :D I cracked the hood anyway :)
 
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Plus 3 Golfer

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Interesting data I'm collecting.. We just filled up the JSW after a tank which included 360 miles of highway driving.

Question (rehtorical, perhaps) - it must have undergone a passive (?) regen at some point of those highway miles, right? Passive regen depends on exhaust gas temperature.

- So when we get back home, about 200 more around town (I don't baby the car..) miles through a week of time, up to 557 miles - we fill up with diesel, and a few blocks before I pull into my driveway (after fillup), I notice it's holding 3rd gear. So I knew it was under an active regen.
Do these regen intervals seem about right? There is no "right" answer. :DIs there a difference in effectiveness (in terms of amount of soot burned) of the two types of regens? Yes, see balance point temp below. Aka, two (that I noticed) regens of a different variety (?) are ok on one tank (of "only" 550 miles)?There is nothing to notice during passive regeneration.

Oh, and it was 93 F ambient outside, and nothing melted!!! :D I cracked the hood anyway :)
Passive regeneration continually occurs when the exhaust gas temperature is between about 350 - 500*C. So, it's likely that during the 360 mile trip that the exhaust gas was in the proper temperature range for continuous passive regeneration (soot is being oxidized continuously). What we don't know is if an acitve or distance regeration was also initiated during this 360 miles. What we do know is that an active or distance regeneration occured at the end of an additional 200 miles.

Soot will continue to build in the DPF until the balance point temperature of the DPF is reached (the temperature at which the amount of soot entering the DPF is completely oxidized such that the soot level does not increase.) It's likely that during the 360 mile trip that soot levels were still building but to a lesser extent than during the 200 miles of around town driving.

The ECM will initiate an acitve regen (based on soot load of the DPF) or a distance regen. In both, extra fuel is injected after the main injection (post injection) to raise the exahust gas temperature to 550-650*C which is above the balance point temperature. Thus, more soot is oxidized then enters the DPF. Soot levels in the DPF then decline.

A distance regen is initiated by the ECM every 466 to 621 miles if a regen has not been completed regardless of soot level.

Bottom line: as long as the DPF light on the instrument cluster stays off, regeneration is doing its job. Drive more, worry less about whether your regens are about right.;)
 
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andy7079

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Bottom line: as long as the DPF light on the instrument cluster stays off, regeneration is doing its job. Drive more, worry less about whether your regens are about right.;)
It would be nice to have a light that says when it is in an active regen. That might help more people not freak out when they get out of their car and the fans are running. I'm imagining a yellow (caution) or green (good) light.

Heck, I was driving a 4wd Ford Ranger the other day, and it had a yellow light to tell me I was in 4wd.
 

Nutsnbolts

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In regards to post DPF temp remaining high during deceleration, the exhaust will contain more oxygen during decel, since there is almost no fuel being injected, so if the DPF is already at the proper oxidation temperature, the additional oxygen should enhance the passive regen process during slowdown, particularly after high load running.

Great thread, and great info!

-Rich
 

MacBuckeye

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Performing Regen with VAGCOM, Regen data

Has anyone performed a Regen with their VAGCOM? What was the result? What was your experience? Just curious how many of you tried it.
Going to try the "Dwiesel" method today to see if I can make the car do it on it's own. Will try and catch it with VAGCOM running.
My oil ash volume level increased dramatically so I'm not sure what's going. Perhaps the results from VAGCOM were prior to a regen? Has anyone noticed if the oil ash volume decreases (fluctuates) or does it only increase?

And just for poops and giggles.... would changing the oil have any effect on DPF data, regen cycle, etc. ? I'm sure there would be long-term effects like if you never changed your oil.
 

JSWTDI09

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Has anyone performed a Regen with their VAGCOM? What was the result? What was your experience? Just curious how many of you tried it.
Going to try the "Dwiesel" method today to see if I can make the car do it on it's own. Will try and catch it with VAGCOM running.
My oil ash volume level increased dramatically so I'm not sure what's going. Perhaps the results from VAGCOM were prior to a regen? Has anyone noticed if the oil ash volume decreases (fluctuates) or does it only increase?

And just for poops and giggles.... would changing the oil have any effect on DPF data, regen cycle, etc. ? I'm sure there would be long-term effects like if you never changed your oil.
The Vag-Com initiates regen is termed an "emergency" regen and should probably only be done when necessary (ie: when everything else fails). It probably would do no harm, but why bother.

I seriously doubt that an oil change would have any effect (assuming that the old and new oils were both the correct type of oil). Most of the ash comes from the fuel oil (diesel fuel) rather than you engine oil. Hopefully, you are not burning a lot of engine oil.

Have Fun!

Don
 

El Dobro

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The European VAG cars (and other manufacturers) use two different DPF systems. One is the same as ours with the high temp regens, the other includes an additive and lower temps. That system has a seperate tank that holds an additive where when the fuel tank is filled, it injects a small portion of the special additive into the fuel tank to mix with the fuel. This additive lowers the temps at which the soot burns, so there is more soot cleaning without the extra fuel injections.

This system extends the life of the exhaust system because of the lower running temps and increases fuel mileage due to fewer fuel injections to heat up the DPF. The downside is that the additive is expensive. The VW part number for the additive is G 052 143 A2. It may be worth it if it'll allow the exhaust system to last a lot longer.
 

MacBuckeye

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2009 Jetta
Interesting data from regen

Took a nice drive Saturday morning to give my car a chance to go thru a regen cycle. Here's some data I gathered. I cruised at about 66-68 MPH (2300 RPM's).
Start of trip
Requested Regens: 4
DPF Soot Load Calc.: 16.2 g
DPF Soot Load Meas.: 9.9 g
DPF Oil Ash Volume: 60 ml

Car went through a regen at 58,338 miles. Most of the settings reset back to zero (miles since last regen, fuel consumption since last regen. Requested Regens dropped to 2. Then 1, and then finally zero. Not sure why it didn't drop directly from 4 to 0.

Immediately after Regen
Requested Regens: 2
DPF Soot Load Calc.: 2.3 g (this fluctuated for several miles 1.8, 2.1, 1.5)
DPF Soot Load Meas.: 0 g
DPF Oil Ash Volume: 60 ml

End of Drive
Requested Regens: 0
DPF Soot Load Calc.: 1.5 g
DPF Soot Load Meas.: 0 g
DPF Oil Ash Volume: 60 ml

Temperatures (Celsius)
Prior to Recatalytic Converter: 450 to 792 (was waiting for the floor boards to catch fire)
Prior to DPF: 438 to 654

At 41K miles the Oil Ash Volume was 39 ml. Now at 58K miles its 60 ml. Is it possible for the Oil Ash volume to increase faster when the car can't regen on a regular basis? Or is Oil Ash volume independant from the regen process? I like what El Dobro mentioned about the other DFP systems that don't get so darn hot. Perhaps the "adblue" systems are better than ours? Anyways, open to expert opinions on the data I gathered.
 

El Dobro

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The stuff I'm talking about is called Eolys fluid and is added to the fuel to clean the DPF. Adblue is injected into the exhaust after the DPF.

For the heck of it, I may give the VW dealer a buzz with the part number to see if they have a listing in the USA.
 

newbury

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It occurs to me that some enterprising TDIClubber with a good working knowledge of digital electronics and an understanding of the VAG bus communication protocol could prolly pretty easily design a small box that would plug into the dash port and illuminate an LED whenever "Regenerations requested" flipped from "3" to "4". This would be a pretty nice public service. I know I'd buy one (if the price was right, of course). Plugging in my laptop and wading through VCDS's less than elegant interface just to check the value of "Regenerations requested" after every drive is just too much like work to do on a regular basis.
So when are you going to start selling them? :)
 

El Dobro

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I checked with the VW dealer on the DPF cleaning fluid and was told there's none in the USA, but it can be ordered on a "Red" order and would come from Germany. I was also told he would sell it to me for about $62 for a 1L bottle.
 

MacBuckeye

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DPF / Exhaust diagram

Does anyone know where I can get a detailed diagram of our DPF system? I found a company that cleans DPF's. They emailed me back asking for a diagram and additional info. I'm curious what they are capable of doing... if anything.
 

birkie

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El Dobro

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Looking at that thread, I would say that's about as good as it gets.
 

MacBuckeye

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birkie- Thanks for the link. I'll forward this to the company I emailed. I might try and get a schematic or diagram from my dealer.
I hope the DFP's can just be removed and a new one installed without having to refinance my house to pay for it!
 

El Dobro

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tcp_ip_dude

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birkie- Thanks for the link. I'll forward this to the company I emailed. I might try and get a schematic or diagram from my dealer.
I hope the DFP's can just be removed and a new one installed without having to refinance my house to pay for it!
Regardless, it's a lot of work/labor ($$) just to get it out...
 

tdi90hp

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so lots of talk of technicalities on dpf regens and cycle times and temps and lambda sensors.....its all engineering gobly gook to most people....the question in my mind is...will most TDIers with CRs be stuck with 2600-3000 dollars + 5-7 hrs labor at 100 bucks an hr + taxes= maybe 4000 dollars in canada....IS THERE A SOLUTION TO THIS LOOMING DISASTER cause if there is none my TDI is saying bye bye before I my DPF is plugged....
Can we have a discussion about this?? I mean is this not the real elephant in the room with current tdis??
 

MacBuckeye

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tdi90- I agree. I would like to see owners who have a VAGCOM start posting their DPF data. Miles driven, oil ash volume, etc. I'm real curious how other cars are doing as they age and get more miles on them.
 

tdi90hp

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anyone want to chime in or is everyone hiding under a tree on this major issue....
 

birkie

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anyone want to chime in or is everyone hiding under a tree on this major issue....
Some of us might be considering plans that cannot be discussed as per the rules of this forum. Others might be waiting for a 3rd party equivalent, or a price drop. The going rate for an OEM dpf may not be constant over time.
 

MacBuckeye

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DPF oil ash volume, soot load.

I'm willing to compile data for 2009+ owners who have a VAGCOM or who can get their cars scanned. I'd like to see how the oil-ash volume is building up in these cars. If there is any other data that would be relevant I can track that also.

Oil ash volume can be found in group 108 or 241 in VAGCOM. Soot Load can also be found in Group 241.
 

tdi90hp

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I'm willing to compile data for 2009+ owners who have a VAGCOM or who can get their cars scanned. I'd like to see how the oil-ash volume is building up in these cars. If there is any other data that would be relevant I can track that also.

Oil ash volume can be found in group 108 or 241 in VAGCOM. Soot Load can also be found in Group 241.
besides setting off a code...at what point will we know if DPF is loaded and needs replacement? nobody in the world has come up with a way to clean these things out?
 

JSWTDI09

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besides setting off a code...at what point will we know if DPF is loaded and needs replacement? nobody in the world has come up with a way to clean these things out?
Yes, there are companies in Europe who do clean out DPFs. There are also companies in America that clean DPFs in big trucks. The problem is that here in North America, there are relatively few CR diesels with over 120k miles. Therefore, there has been little need for DPF cleaning (yet). This will undoubtedly change as these cars get older (more miles). I expect that DPF cleaning will become more common in a few years. Those owners who put on a lot of miles will be the first to drive this change and the rest of us will be the ones to benefit from their experience.

Have Fun!

Don
 

Scenic Driver

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tdi90- I agree. I would like to see owners who have a VAGCOM start posting their DPF data. Miles driven, oil ash volume, etc. I'm real curious how other cars are doing as they age and get more miles on them.
I scanned mine this morning
2010 Golf (CJAA)
Milage: 47658
Oil Ash Volume: 48ml
Soot Load Calc: 3.6
Soot Load Meas: 0
Milage since last regen: 10
Time since last regen: 12
 

OILPowered

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The problem is that here in North America, there are relatively few CR diesels with over 120k miles. Therefore, there has been little need for DPF cleaning (yet). This will undoubtedly change as these cars get older (more miles). I expect that DPF cleaning will become more common in a few years. Those owners who put on a lot of miles will be the first to drive this change and the rest of us will be the ones to benefit from their experience.

Don
This makes good sense. It seems as the need increases, we will see more DPF services that hopefully will not be exclusive to full system replacement (i.e. cleaning). It may be wishful thinking, but I do hope VW designed the system with serviceability in mind.
 
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MacBuckeye

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Scenic- Thanks for posting your info. I'm going to start a new thread just for keeping track of member DPF data. I should have something up later today or tonight. My oil ash was also 48 ml at 47K miles and 53K miles. At 58K it went to 60 ml. Going to run VAGCOM over the weekend to see what it is again. My car is just over 60K miles.
 
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