VAG dieselgate shoots themselves in the foot

Yep, using an already proven platform used in the diesel cruze. I regrettably thing VW will never recover from this.

Remember though that is still a pile of poo Chevy. On our last Chevy, the right front strut was completely devoid of oil at 25K miles. you haven't lived until you drive down the road at freeway speed and it feels like there is a jackhammer at one of your wheels.

For folks that don't care if their car is a pile of poo, I guess a Chevy is the cat's meow. My 2006 Jetta at 170K miles has been a lot cheaper that a pile of poo Chevy because I have not had to replace a lot of the parts that seem to fail at low miles on a Chevy.

Modern Chevy's are just horrible cars. I don't really care if it comes in a Diesel. It will be just another small market car that the dealer mechanics have never seen and will destroy regularly because of their lack of familiarity with the specific requirement of a Diesel. Does "Mark and Pray" ring any bells?

40 mpg from a 1.6L? Is that supposed to be... good?

Ol'Rattler said:

Modern Chevy's are just horrible cars. I don't really care if it comes in a Diesel. It will be just another small market car that the dealer mechanics have never seen and will destroy regularly because of their lack of familiarity with the specific requirement of a Diesel. Does "Mark and Pray" ring any bells?

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Actually, GM knows diesel pretty well. They have millions of them driving around Europe, Asia, and England.

Of course, they apparently also "modified" the emissions when testing but somehow got away with it.

I had two crap GM cars. A 1983 Buick Skylark and a 1995 GMC Jimmy. Now, to be fair, the Jimmy had a "radical" new fuel injection system and did serve me for 180K miles in six years. My wife's Saturn Vue ran flawless for ten years and my Avlanche is barely broken in at ten years and 160K miles.

Every car company the size of GM, Toyota, Volkswagen is going to have some issues.

Fred's will become VMMotoriClub. You heard it here first.


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snakeye said:

40 mpg from a 1.6L? Is that supposed to be... good?

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In a CUV? Yes.

IFRCFI said:

Fred's will become VMMotoriClub. You heard it here first.


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The Cruze and Equinox will have an Opel engine. The engine has been in the world for a while in Europe and has already proven itself to be a good engine. The Buick Envision, the Buick version of the Equinox hopefully will get the same diesel option.

I'm not sure how many more threads are needed about the Equinox getting a diesel for 2018.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=467365
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=467328
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=467349
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=467312

Perfectreign said:

Actually, GM knows diesel pretty well. They have millions of them driving around Europe, Asia, and England.

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His point is not about GM as a corporation but rather the techs on US soil who will or won't be servicing the cars.

Hmmm..... sounds like a new website opportunity in the making...

PH

I am not sure what difference this really makes. I am in favor of more diesels, despite the EPA's vendetta against them. So I welcome any and all from any of the manufacturers.

However, the diesel Cruze we DID get sold in very low numbers, and for nearly double the price of most gasoline Cruze models which sold quite well it is not surprising. A lot of people do not even realize a diesel Cruze even was available here. I predicted IF they even came to market, they would be frightfully expensive (they were) and would sell poorly (they did).

Now, they are set to bring them back, alongside a diesel version of another decent selling model. In a climate where fuel is cheap, diesels are even more hated by the general public, and ignorance about them is blossoming by half truths spouted by the media. Thank you, Volkswagen.

I predict that these, too, well sell poorly. But I would strongly encourage anyone looking at something of this genre give the diesel version an objective check out anyway. But I really do not think this is going to be a huge hit for Volkswagen in general. Their US sales as compared to GM US sales are almost laughable, and then to factor in a tiny piece of this pie in the passenger car diesel market is not worthy of much scrutiny.

But we'll see....

Equinox Diesel by Opel, sounds cool.

I nearly pulled the trigger on a 2010 or 11 ML 350 BlueTEC.

Keep me and my Jetta away from those monsters.

The gasser Equinoxes, RAV4s, CRVs, Foresters all approach 30 mpgs..not bad either.

I would have to lower my standard of living if I had to drive something that only got 30 MPG every day. And I am not really sure some of them actually would even come close to that in real world driving. I have two CRVs and a RAV4 in the family, they all barely get 25, and they all absolutely SUCK to drive. Jittery, unsettled, buzzy things.

During the past few months I have test driven a few SUVs. 2012 or 13 CRV had horrible road manners yet was roomy. A 2010 Explorer Eddie Bauer was nice but guzzled gas, 2014 Explorer base model with AWD (my Dad's) and most recently the 10 or 11 ML BlueTEC very enticing yet problematic financially. Getting an SUV just for weekends, landscaping, summer vacation, cargo carrying or snow blizzards just not my ideal ride.
I can't afford taking on a third vehicle just for those reasons. SUVs just don't make sense in my Northeastern suburb where the plows take care of the roads pretty good. Our road trips may have to get a little better planned as far as renting an SUV or just borrowing Dad's when the needs for those chores arise.
I'm a first time TDI owner who has gotten thicker skin in my 4 years of ownership. Sure my DPF failed and I paid dearly to replace it, but I'm getting my money back now with the buyback.
There is no way I will take on a new car payment such as with an Equinox Diesel and I doubt they will sell many. There are some Golf and Passat TSIs which have just been turned in after their leases which I may consider.
What has happened to VW is a real shame. Just when they were getting a foothold with pretty good TDI sales, bam kaboom it's up in smoke. Gassers that approach high 30s mpg if babied have become my next alternative.
Volkswagen TSI may be in my future, still no idea what I'll get but at least I'm sure it won't be an SUV.

oilhammer said:

I am not sure what difference this really makes. I am in favor of more diesels, despite the EPA's vendetta against them. So I welcome any and all from any of the manufacturers.
However, the diesel Cruze we DID get sold in very low numbers, and for nearly double the price of most gasoline Cruze models which sold quite well it is not surprising. A lot of people do not even realize a diesel Cruze even was available here. I predicted IF they even came to market, they would be frightfully expensive (they were) and would sell poorly (they did).
Now, they are set to bring them back, alongside a diesel version of another decent selling model. In a climate where fuel is cheap, diesels are even more hated by the general public, and ignorance about them is blossoming by half truths spouted by the media. Thank you, Volkswagen.
I predict that these, too, well sell poorly. But I would strongly encourage anyone looking at something of this genre give the diesel version an objective check out anyway. But I really do not think this is going to be a huge hit for Volkswagen in general. Their US sales as compared to GM US sales are almost laughable, and then to factor in a tiny piece of this pie in the passenger car diesel market is not worthy of much scrutiny.
But we'll see....

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Same here. What OH said.

I'm not in the market for another car right now but I plan to check out the diesel Equinox out of curiosity if nothing else after it starts appearing on GM dealer's lots. I may also check out some diesel pickup trucks while I'm at it.

As was said, VW was or seemed to be getting a foothold with the TDI's.
Here's my question....
What would a TDI's MPG be without the defeat system engaged? I'm really curious what numbers made VW feel they needed to fudge the system to gain a market edge. I mean, if the TDI would get say, 30 MPG without the defeat system how would affect sales... 35 MPG? what was the number that or numbers that caused this catastrophe for VW.

tejastommy said:

What would a TDI's MPG be without the defeat system engaged?

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Pretty much, see Chevrolet Cruze TD. Similar size car and engine. The diff is that GM uses SCR / AdBlue and doesn't cheat (so it uses considerably more AdBlue than the cheating SCR-equipped VWs do). Fuel consumption is in the same ballpark bearing in mind that it is two different vehicles, two different engines, two different transmissions, etc.

The difference would have been:
- VW would have had to license the use of SCR from a competitor (Mercedes-Benz) and it would have apparently cost them about US$350 more per vehicle.
- They would have had to find a place in the vehicle for the SCR tank and dosing system. (They eventually had to do just that, anyhow.)

Still not understanding this whole licensing of SCR from MB, as that system was around long before MB was using it, and VAG was already using it in some models.

Did MB somehow buy the patents all up for SCR? And then is EVERYONE that uses it (which is literally EVERYONE selling on-road diesels here now it seems) paying MB for it? And what was VAG's deal for using it on other models already, even if its dosing and tuning wasn't sufficient to adhere to NOx standards?

tejastommy said:

As was said, VW was or seemed to be getting a foothold with the TDI's.
Here's my question....
What would a TDI's MPG be without the defeat system engaged? I'm really curious what numbers made VW feel they needed to fudge the system to gain a market edge. I mean, if the TDI would get say, 30 MPG without the defeat system how would affect sales... 35 MPG? what was the number that or numbers that caused this catastrophe for VW.

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I think the decision focused more on the wear on the emissions system from having to be under sustained load than it was MPG's. I think MPG will only drop a little, I think system component failure will increase substantially.

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