Newbie with a wildly modified 2001 needing help

OtherCarsnAlfa · Jul 25, 2014

Hi guys,

Completely new world for me here.

I very recently purchased a wildly modified 2002 2 door TDI Golf. It has coilovers, audi TT brakes, a freaking quaife front diff...someone spent a lot of money on this thing. I was told when it was built it was the fasted TDI Golf in the states.

As far as engine mods:
Larger turbo, european 150hp block, large front mount intercooler, injectors, software, automatic pump.

Here's where I need your guys' collective knowledge...

This car is basically undrivable the way it is. Max boost is about 30lbs but as soon as boost even registers on the dial it is leaving noticeable smoke behind, and once in significant boost it's a cloud so thick people are getting upset. The turbo was recently replaced I'm told, but I'm not going to rule that out.

Is there anything I can do to vastly reduce smoke under boost? I'm very open to turning down the boost, reducing fuel, whatever it takes. I have several years of experience tuning stand alone ecu's so if I could even do some kind of software trim for the time being I'd be open to that.

I look forward to your help, I'm a little upset that I have to be so worried driving this car in California the way it is right now

Thank you,
Grant

StevenL · Jul 26, 2014

Depends on which turbo and which injectors it's got really.

But if they are a good match then perhaps you could try adjusting down the iq, and check if you've got any boost hoses leaking that might cause that sort of overfuelling.

If all that is fine then the map might be one for maximum horsepower and reducing the fuelling might be the answer.

MichaelB · Jul 26, 2014

OtherCarsnAlfa said:
Hi guys,

Completely new world for me here.

I very recently purchased a wildly modified 2002 2 door TDI Golf. It has coilovers, audi TT brakes, a freaking quaife front diff...someone spent a lot of money on this thing. I was told when it was built it was the fasted TDI Golf in the states.

As far as engine mods:
Larger turbo, european 150hp block, large front mount intercooler, injectors, software, automatic pump.

Here's where I need your guys' collective knowledge...

This car is basically undrivable the way it is. Max boost is about 30lbs but as soon as boost even registers on the dial it is leaving noticeable smoke behind, and once in significant boost it's a cloud so thick people are getting upset. The turbo was recently replaced I'm told, but I'm not going to rule that out.

Is there anything I can do to vastly reduce smoke under boost? I'm very open to turning down the boost, reducing fuel, whatever it takes. I have several years of experience tuning stand alone ecu's so if I could even do some kind of software trim for the time being I'd be open to that.

I look forward to your help, I'm a little upset that I have to be so worried driving this car in California the way it is right now

Thank you,
Grant

So why did you buy it? In general terms VW diesels aren't hot rods

LNXGUY · Jul 26, 2014

Re-tune.

gerico_200 · Jul 26, 2014

Yes re-tune

IndigoBlueWagon · Jul 26, 2014

If your car's an '02, not sure what a "European 150 HP block" means, unless someone did a combo of a PD150 bottom end with an ALH head. But that probably isn't a big deal.

Who did you buy the car from? What can they tell you about how it's set up? What turbo is in it, (you can look at the plate on the side of the compressor housing if the PO can't tell you), what injectors, what injection pump (11mm or 10mm), what cam, what intake manifold, airbox, airbox to intake, MAF? All these things matter if you're going to get the tune sorted out. And most important, who tuned the car?

I'm not going to speculate on why it's smoking, could be any number of issues from a boost leak to a improperly set up turbo to over-fueling. Short term you could probably reduce smoke by lowering the fuel injection quantity with VCDS. If you don't have one, you're going to need it.

If you're not in touch with the PO, put up a pic of the car. Someone here may know about it. Highly modified TDIs are a small universe.

[486] · Jul 26, 2014

Less fuel, less smoke.
It's just that simple.

Easiest way? Modulate your throttle pedal. Don't go full retard and mash it to the floor.

Dodoma · Jul 26, 2014

Instead of wasting your time and money to find what is the problem when you are not sure what is in the engine, you will come out ahead just replacing with a stock used engine they you can buy from a junk yard. Don't waste money on the existing engine that is not fixable.

dlai · Jul 26, 2014

Ok, if this is the car I think it is, it used to be owned by AtomicSushi (Howard) up in the Sacramento area.

Once upon a time he did have the fastest 1/4 mile TDI so I'm guessing you either brought it from him or someone after him.

As I recall it has the following mods but this is from when I saw it years ago:

VNT 20/15 hybrid turbo, ASV RocketChip Stage 4/5 custom, Bosio Race 520 Injectors, 11mm Pump, GHL 2.5" downpipe, Techtonics Tuning 2.5" Catback, an Upsolute FMIC, and PD 150 intake manifold (not a block as you stated.)

When I saw it last, it did not smoke that much so something must have changed. As others have suggested, you can turn down the IQ via VCDS but you might want to contact Jeff at Rocketchip and see if he can help with a retune. He is familiar with this car and can probably help you with some missing details on the car. Or, you can try contacting AtomicSushi, but he has not logged into this website since late last year.

I'm also guessing that the VNT 20/15 might have blown and someone replaced it with some other turbo not matched correctly to the mods on the car, hence the smoking.

Hope the info helps, that's about all I know about the car. I lost contact with Howard a few years back...

OtherCarsnAlfa · Jul 26, 2014

dlai you nailed it. I bought it from the owner after him. The PO told me today the turbo is a VNT20. What is the IQ?

Thank you for the great help, these leads will be very helpful for me!

I'll try to upload some photos of the car as it currently sits. I'm not a fan of some of the mods like the seats, god awful steering wheel, red TDI badging, etc. Also the polyurethane engine mounts are unbelievably annoying.

There's a lot of really cool stuff done to this car, I'd just like to sort it out a bit so it can be used as an every day driver. I'm very glad to hear this thing didn't use to smoke! I somehow thought you had to roll coal if you wanted to go fast with a turbo diesel. Sorry for the lack of knowledge, I'm trying to read all I can with my tight schedule so I can at least drive it on the road without attracting so much attention.

OtherCarsnAlfa · Jul 26, 2014

By the way, if the block actually is the factory block, that would be good news for me as far as smog compliance goes. The PO seemed very certain that a low mileage PD150 block was swapped in early on in the car's life time. I'll try and see if I can figure out a way to identify the block.

Thanks again.

OtherCarsnAlfa · Jul 26, 2014

Some of the personalized touches I've shown here aren't quite my style but when I came across this car with such fun mods in the engine/drivetrain/and suspension department I knew I had to grab it. I'm the kind of person that will modify whatever I own and I was hoping this would help me reduce the temptation of modifying the car further.

I'm glad to be a part of this family and I look forward to my time on this board.

OtherCarsnAlfa · Jul 27, 2014

Regarding some of the negative comments (really? I'm brand new and you are going to bash?), any moderate throttle input or whenever the boost is over 7lbs, there is very noticeable smoke. Currently it is hard to accelerate with the flow of traffic with the current fueling/injection timing so this has nothing to do with "mashing the throttle".

Just wanted to clarify.

hatemi · Jul 27, 2014

If you want a quck fix on the smoke then just unplug the maf sensor. I have a feeling this car is still with maf based smoke limit. Then you will not smoke but be dead slow.

You might want to take the car to a mechanic who is familiar with these engines and mods. Then rule out one by one the possible causes for the smoke. I'm guessing a boost leak or that someone replaced the maf sensor with something that doesn't belong there.

Lähetetty minun GT-I9300 laitteesta Tapatalkilla

IndigoBlueWagon · Jul 27, 2014

I'm betting it has the wrong turbo for the tune on it now. VNT-20s do smoke, at least the ones I'm familiar with.

Here's my suggestion: Sell the turbo that's on the car. Get a VNT-17 or 17/22 and install with PP520 injectors. Have Jeff re-tune the car to RC4+, or RC5. That will compliment the other mods mentioned above and give you a low smoke, economical, but quick daily driver. I've driven variations of this setup for years and it works well.

BuzzKen · Jul 27, 2014

Try to identify what turbo is currently on the car since you say it was recently replaced. If it was 'a mechanic' working on the car, who knows, maybe they would just throw a stock turbo on.

dlai · Jul 27, 2014

OtherCarsnAlfa said:
dlai you nailed it. I bought it from the owner after him. The PO told me today the turbo is a VNT20. What is the IQ?

Thank you for the great help, these leads will be very helpful for me!

I'll try to upload some photos of the car as it currently sits. I'm not a fan of some of the mods like the seats, god awful steering wheel, red TDI badging, etc. Also the polyurethane engine mounts are unbelievably annoying.

There's a lot of really cool stuff done to this car, I'd just like to sort it out a bit so it can be used as an every day driver. I'm very glad to hear this thing didn't use to smoke! I somehow thought you had to roll coal if you wanted to go fast with a turbo diesel. Sorry for the lack of knowledge, I'm trying to read all I can with my tight schedule so I can at least drive it on the road without attracting so much attention.

Glad to help. I would do as IndigoBlueWagon suggested and swap out that turbo for a VNT 17 or 17/22 hybrid and get a retune. There are some local tuners in the bay area who are Malone or TDTuning dealers who can help you if you need a tune quick or contact Jeff and have him help you out here.

Your car used to run great (I rode in it before) so it's worth sorting out. Howard spent some serious coin on the car so it's worth fixing He used to contribute here a ton. BTW, the car looks, shall we say, different, than when I last saw it. Not sure what's going on with that steering wheel and other stuff but it wasn't there when I saw it. Those are all quick fixes. Howard used it for drag strip stuff hence some of the mods he did were geared towards that.

oldpoopie · Jul 27, 2014

I agree, sounds like a turbo to tune mismatch, or possibly the vanes are seizing up.... Regardless, get it to someone who can recognize the hardware, its condition, and make the appropriate suggestions.

Contact David (frankencar) and see if he has time to peek at it.

OtherCarsnAlfa · Jul 27, 2014

Thanks for more great advice.

BTW who is Jeff? Is he the RocketChip guy?

What is the reason for downsizing the turbo? I figured if the amount of fuel just matched the compressor output that should be the main goal? What will downsizing the turbo do for me other than change when the turbo builds boost?

As it is btw it's fairly laggy when you exit a turn but when 3K rpm and 30lbs of boost arrives....hold on

OtherCarsnAlfa · Jul 27, 2014

Also as I mentioned before I've tuned many gasoline engines before using anything from piggy backs to complete standalones (Motecs to Megasquirts)

I have heard of VW guys using VAGCOM to at least monitor parameters. Am I able to do any global fuel trims wit VAGCOM software? For a gas engine you definitely don't want to go lean under load, is there the same risk for diesel engines? From what I have been reading it seems that more fuel = more heat until you are just dumping fuel in with heavy smoke as a by product. I'd appreciate any input on software tuning if possible as I continue to research.

On another note, I'll be taking the car to the TDIguy in San Jose area to change out the engine mounts from poly to OEM. The dogbone is full poly too...the PO recommended I NOT change that, but I think I would want to change that to OEM as well. Any recommendations?

OtherCarsnAlfa · Jul 27, 2014

Dlai, do you remember the 1/4 mile times at all?

LNXGUY · Jul 27, 2014

I wouldn't bother swapping out the turbo, if it's in good condition leave it alone. Any tuner worth a damn can easily tune that car.

JSWTDI09 · Jul 27, 2014

OtherCarsnAlfa said:
What is the IQ?

IQ is Injection Quantity. It can be adjusted with VCDS. A search here will give you lots if info on how it works

OtherCarsnAlfa said:
BTW who is Jeff? Is he the RocketChip guy?

Yes, Jeff is RocketChip. He knows his stuff.

Have Fun!

Don

IndigoBlueWagon · Jul 27, 2014

OtherCarsnAlfa said:
As it is btw it's fairly laggy when you exit a turn but when 3K rpm and 30lbs of boost arrives....hold on

That's how VNT-20s are, although some may disagree. Years ago a friend and I were at a track day, him with a VNT-20 and PP764s, me with stock turbo and PP520s. My car was quicker because his turbo wouldn't spool fast enough coming out of corners. By the time it was on full boost it was time to brake for the next turn. And it smoked, a lot.

OtherCarsnAlfa · Jul 27, 2014

Thanks guys!

dlai · Jul 27, 2014

An interesting thread on your car from back in the day:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=86170

[486] · Jul 27, 2014

OtherCarsnAlfa said:
Regarding some of the negative comments (really? I'm brand new and you are going to bash?), any moderate throttle input or whenever the boost is over 7lbs, there is very noticeable smoke. Currently it is hard to accelerate with the flow of traffic with the current fueling/injection timing so this has nothing to do with "mashing the throttle".

Just wanted to clarify.

Apologies, I'm just naturally an ass.
Sometimes it dribbles a little on here.

The reason it smokes with the bigger turbo is that you tune in more fuel to get the EGTs up to spool the bigger turbo quicker. Strictly a "get on boost as soon as possible" thing.

So, either cut the fueling down in the lower maf/map regions of the maps to alleviate the off-boost smoke,
or just don't stab the throttle unless you wanna be outta the path of that speeding cement truck ASAP.

ETA: And apparently I suck at reading too. Magic.

OtherCarsnAlfa · Jul 28, 2014

I talked to Shaz at "TheTdiguy" shop.

He suggested I drop down to smaller injectors and re-tune the map.

But first he's going to help me with the rediculous poly engine mounts

LNXGUY · Jul 29, 2014

All your fueling needs can be taken care of in the tune, there shouldn't be any reason to run smaller nozzles.

OtherCarsnAlfa · Jul 29, 2014

I think I agree with him, if I won't be dumping in as much fuel, using smaller nozzles should allow for better "resolution" when tuning. I think smaller nozzles also allow for a cleaner burn to from what I read online?

That being said, I may just elect to keep the nozzles to save some of my budget for other things the car needs.

Newbie with a wildly modified 2001 needing help

Well-known member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Top Post Dawg

Well-known member

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/

Top Post Dawg

Veteran Member

Top Post Dawg

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Veteran Member

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/

Vendor , w/Business number

Top Post Dawg

Vendor

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Top Post Dawg

Top Post Dawg

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/

Well-known member

Top Post Dawg

Top Post Dawg

Well-known member

Top Post Dawg

Well-known member