2260 took a split. Literally. BW EFR to replace?

loudspl · May 6, 2014

Sharing the carnage with you guys.
Here's what turbo overspeed can do...

Shut it down as soon as it popped. Compression still good. Oil looked ok and IC will be cleaned out as well.
Looking at BW EFR 6758 as possible replacement/upgrade. Comments/thoughts?

dieseleux · May 6, 2014

Too much force apply by hose on compressor side or some thing touch and thermal expention do this job.
Or... compressor wheel exploded! (aluminium housing have a hole and where the compressor wheel?)

Dieseleux

JFettig · May 6, 2014

If you're running the same boost that you were before.... yup, overspeeding

loudspl · May 6, 2014

dieseleux said:
Too much force apply by hose on compressor side or some thing touch and thermal expention do this job.
Or... compressor wheel exploded! (aluminium housing have a hole and where the compressor wheel?)

i think it said...i'm outta here man!

MIA... probably went to the moon who knows

loudspl · May 6, 2014

Considering this for replacement...

Maybe stronger shaft than 2260....more flow, light wheels, but no VNT....boost by ~3k?

brnsgrbr · May 6, 2014

So how much boost did that?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Nash_TDI · May 6, 2014

brnsgrbr said:
So how much boost did that?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Same question.

loudspl · May 6, 2014

Around 45psi/3.1bar..

Turbo was used when first installed. Became louder before it finally decided to detonate.

I've had this turbo for years. Had one last hard run before it decided on an exit strategy

andy2 · May 6, 2014

That's a large jump in size from approx 45mm to 54mm inducer.Think Id try somthing around a 50mm compressor inducer.When you get up to these bigger turbo's lag is not a consideration VNT or not

.

The gt3571klnv I used as a secondary had a 50.5mm inducer.Definitely could use a smaller turbine for a daily driver though.

andy2 · May 6, 2014

On second thought mabye the 2260 would have produced good results with an external wastegate to limit shaft speed while using Nos.Assuming you were using Nos when this happened ?

loudspl · May 6, 2014

This 6758 is similar in size to GTB3576klnrv

3576 has either 53 or 50mm inducer depending on version

6758 is 53.9mm inducer but with lighter wheels

Maybe better suited as an LP but I'm OK with later boost. Had a large IC on before w/2260 so I'm used to slower spool

loudspl · May 6, 2014

No NOS used when this happened actually..

Actuator set to crack open a bit earlier, forgot about it...loaded aggressive map...boom goes turbo

Homer Simpson: D'oh!

I had a laggy 2260 with the large IC. If I'm going to have lag....I need flow to go with. 2260 just didn't make enough power without "help" IMO...

hatemi · May 6, 2014

Get a proper sized VNT and you'll have best of both worlds

Slower spool but the top end will more than make up for the lost RPM at the beginning

Borg Warner has some good options. Smaller S200 have crappy compressors at stock, but the turbine is sized pretty good with 56mm exducer. I will be putting one of those modified with better compressor (GTX2867 hopefully) to my 3.0l.
S356V has 56/80mm compressor and IIRC 62mm turbine.
S362V has 62/88mm compressor and same turbine. We had to limit the spool to get it working surge free. 0.3bar at 2500rpm. 1.1bar at 3500rpm. 2.1bar at 3700rpm. 3bar+ from 4000rpm to +6500rpm

andy2 · May 6, 2014

loudspl said:
If I'm going to have lag....I need flow to go with.

Sounds good.I sometimes wonder if my current secondary turbo (gta4082klnv) would spool much slower if it was fixed geometry.

You just can't close the vanes down too far with the big turbo's.There is a point where EMP's are just too high to try and spool a large turbine.

JFettig · May 7, 2014

Keep in mind that the GTB2260VK flows ~35-37lb/min, now you're wanting to jump to 53lb/min with a turbo that can't handle the pressure ratio required to push anywhere near 53lb/min even at 6000rpm? Look into the EFR 6258 if you really want to do this.

devonutopia · May 7, 2014

Wow, sure hope mine doesn't do that. :O

loudspl · May 7, 2014

hatemi said:
Get a proper sized VNT and you'll have best of both worlds Slower spool but the top end will more than make up for the lost RPM at the beginning
Borg Warner has some good options. Smaller S200 have crappy compressors at stock, but the turbine is sized pretty good with 56mm exducer. I will be putting one of those modified with better compressor (GTX2867 hopefully) to my 3.0l.
S356V has 56/80mm compressor and IIRC 62mm turbine.
S362V has 62/88mm compressor and same turbine. We had to limit the spool to get it working surge free. 0.3bar at 2500rpm. 1.1bar at 3500rpm. 2.1bar at 3700rpm. 3bar+ from 4000rpm to +6500rpm

62mm inducer is big jump from 50/53mm inducer on GTB3576!
This was on 8v VE?
I would go with Bullseye but someone enlighten me why they are better than the EFR series? Is it the billet "BatMoWheel" or this new wheel here?

hatemi · May 7, 2014

Yes it was on 8v VE with 0.341 and 11mm pump. With 53mm inducer 3576vklr the boost request goes like this:
2400rpm 1.24bar
2700rpm 1.5bar
3300rpm 2bar
4000rpm 2.7bar and 3bar after 4300rpm.
That car has always been surge prone even with 2260, so it might work better in some other car. It could spool way earlier without the limited request.

I wonder how well the 2271vk hybrids really work... Cha Cha Cha Cha Cha and then we go at the same RPM as 3576vklr. And with 4bar EMP with 3bar boost.

loudspl · May 7, 2014

hatemi said:
Yes it was on 8v VE with 0.341 and 11mm pump. With 53mm inducer 3576vklr the boost request goes like this:
2400rpm 1.24bar
2700rpm 1.5bar
3300rpm 2bar
4000rpm 2.7bar and 3bar after 4300rpm.
That car has always been surge prone even with 2260, so it might work better in some other car. It could spool way earlier without the limited request.
I wonder how well the 2271vk hybrids really work... Cha Cha Cha Cha Cha and then we go at the same RPM as 3576vklr. And with 4bar EMP with 3bar boost.

Yes that is also larger turbine (64mm) vs. EFR 6758 (58mm)...which is a good thing.

I know Jason and "prodrive" like theirs....but I think I will pass on 2260 hybrids (65mm-71mm). Still same shaft as normal 2260 on those IIRC.
Do the cha-cha on Cinco de Mayo. That was a couple days ago.

That Hino monster 3576 sounds perfect but...it is huge!
Might have to knock out firewall to get it to fit. Longitudinal has a good place for it. Sort-of...

hatemi · May 7, 2014

That engine bay looks familiar

Here you can see the 50mm inducer version fitted in a Golf. No real world data on how the turbo works since the engine dropped intake valve to the cylinder just after 70km of easy driving after rebuild. With it went one piston and one HF160% nozzle that has proven to be really difficult to replace.

loudspl · May 7, 2014

Looks good Hannu. Still tight fit!

Are both versions the same A/R 0.68? T3 or T4 flange?

Sorry about valve drop! Good results to come when fixed I'm sure

hatemi · May 7, 2014

The housings on the turbos are bit different but I cant remember if they had the same AR or not.

storx · May 7, 2014

Hatemi, i love that setup.. i wish i could experience it in real life haha..

I have tried both the 2265 and the 2260 and i found no difference in the surge.. they both seemed to surge at the same area in the powerband.. so i ponder if its the lack of flow through the cylinder head that causes it... on the CR140.. i found that the turbo surge less often when the intake flap valve was turned off compared to turned on.. i say this because tunes that surged when the flap valve plugged in.. wouldnt surge as bad or not at all....

Whitbread · May 7, 2014

pr of 3.6 and figures of 25lb/min and 38lb/min are much happier on either 6258 or 7064. One of those two is my vote. 6258 will be snappier obviously.

oldpoopie · May 7, 2014

Ouch. Where were you when it happened?

majesty78 · May 8, 2014

Nasty ^^

But sometimes they just decide to explode *gg*

2260 here (In background)

Thats why burst containment tests are actually usefull

loudspl · May 8, 2014

oldpoopie said:
Ouch. Where were you when it happened?

Poopie I was back in Asheville, NC.

Remember the actuator adjustment? Yep...

Whitbread said:
pr of 3.6 and figures of 25lb/min and 38lb/min are much happier on either 6258 or 7064. One of those two is my vote. 6258 will be snappier obviously.

On the 7064...any advantage in going with 0.92 A/R twin-scroll housing vs. the plain 0.83 A/R?

GTX-style 50mm inducer on VNT GTB3576 might beat the Borg offerings but I'm guessing the only advantage there is VNT, not wheel weights?

If anyone has compressor map for either version GTB3576klnrv...please post!

b5converison · May 8, 2014

really curious how were them boost request/limiter maps looking in your file ..

Alcaid · May 8, 2014

50mm inducer GTX style is exactly what I will be using on my 1.6TD

loudspl · May 9, 2014

b5converison said:
really curious how were them boost request/limiter maps looking in your file ..

Maps were fine. Limits were around 40psi/2.7bar.
This was a result of operator error...

This is a much better outcome than what I experienced with a StreetToys VNT-20 years ago. That was a total disaster

2260 took a split. Literally. BW EFR to replace?

Best single for 2260 upgrade?

BW EFR 7064

BW EFR 6258

GTX28XX

GTB3576 50mm inducer version

GTB2566 hybrid

Just replace with another GTB2260vk

Something else

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