Jetta TDIs - Are they a Money Pit?

I am becoming unhappy with my 2001 VW Jetta TDI 87K. Again it will not start with out grinding away on the starter and it spits and spuders while driving. I have had the glow plug harness replaced 15k ago along with the timing belt. I have again checked the glow plug harness and everything checks out good (voltage, current, resistance). It is currently at the dealer getting check out and I am having the intake cleaned. Get a load of this the dealer just called. My intake is plugged and the EGR cooler is leaking internally, another $400 and this doesn't mean the mass air flow sensor is not shot yet. Are these cars a money pit? Love the fuel economy but I am starting to wonder if a Honda won't be a better choice.

There are some simple fixes for the plugged intake.
ERG adaption
and, or CCV bypass

= no clogged intake.

The job can be done by someone with some mechanical experience, it's just time consuming.

jason

Hard starting when engine cold at moderate outside temperature? Check injection timing and set it properly.

Hard starting when engine warm? Check/replace battery and starter motor.

If the glow plug components were replaced due to the starting issues and not due to a fault code and lit MIL on the instrument panel, you were barking up the wrong tree.

Clogged intake and EGR systems are really easy to prevent. Do the EGR adaptation that's in the TDIFAQ.

If the MAF fails, replace it with the Pierburg unit that has been discussed on these forums.

These cars are not a money pit. Minor problems that are mis-diagnosed can turn little things INTO a money pit ... but that's not the car's fault. This is a common issue with ALL modern cars ... they are so complex that most mechanics don't fully understand how everything works.

it's true, every car has it's quirks... some more than others, but it's a leap of faith.

I disagree with the complexity issue... I personally think cars have become 10X easier to diagnose since the carburated days... at least now the computer will give you an area to look into, rather than doing the ol' air/fuel/spark thing and having to fiddle with jets. True, though, that mechanics are usually grease monkeys who don't give a rat's ass and just wanna go home and drink beer and bang their floppy titty ex-stripper g/f. Gone are the days of the noble/knowledgable neighborhood mechanic. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[ QUOTE ]
bbarbulo said:
it's true, every car has it's quirks... some more than others, but it's a leap of faith.

I disagree with the complexity issue... I personally think cars have become 10X easier to diagnose since the carburated days... at least now the computer will give you an area to look into, rather than doing the ol' air/fuel/spark thing and having to fiddle with jets. True, though, that mechanics are usually grease monkeys who don't give a rat's ass and just wanna go home and drink beer and bang their floppy titty ex-stripper g/f. Gone are the days of the noble/knowledgable neighborhood mechanic. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[/ QUOTE ] ROFLMFAO /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Howdy "shiner"..
Where are you located ?
With a little "info"....you can totaly eliminate the egr cooler....and the whole EGR system...without affecting engine perfromance or economy..and no "CEL".

[ QUOTE ]
bbarbulo said:
I disagree with the complexity issue... I personally think cars have become 10X easier to diagnose since the carburated days... at least now the computer will give you an area to look into, rather than doing the ol' air/fuel/spark thing and having to fiddle with jets. True, though, that mechanics are usually grease monkeys who don't give a rat's ass and just wanna go home and drink beer and bang their floppy titty ex-stripper g/f. Gone are the days of the noble/knowledgable neighborhood mechanic. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

You're right ... IF the mechanic in question has the correct diagnostic equipment AND has read the shop manual AND recognizes that faults displayed in the diagnostics don't necessarily point directly to the problem AND recognizes that not all faults show up in the diagnostics AND uses common sense and knowledge when things progress beyond the factory service procedures!

That's not always the case, though ... There's countless stories of cars being connected to the diagnostics in response to a complaint, but it's something the diagnostics cannot know about, so the mechanic says "nothing's wrong" ... Relay 109 is like this, for one example ... There's another problem with the diagnostic procedure for the glow plug system - the one that's been wrong in the shop manual for years ...

I, personally, am glad that my car does not have ABS, power sunroof, power seats, oxygen sensors, navigation system, automatic climate control, traction control, and a whole bunch more. Less crap to go wrong.

I totally agree with GoFaster on this one... if there is a "money pit" it's usually in the dealer service bay. For example, there have been multiple stories here of dealers replacing "blown turbos" to fix a no-boost problem only to find out that that wasn't the problem... and ultimately a new MAF or N75 fixes it.

Herm,would you care to elaborate on your statement?

"With a little "info"....you can totaly eliminate the egr cooler....and the whole EGR system...without affecting engine perfromance or economy..and no "CEL"."

Would this mod effect emissions?

Thanks,
Jack

In short, the ECU monitors the operation of the EGR by watching the MAF (airflow) values. When the EGR opens, the MAF reading should decrease by a known amount (because some of the intake charge is now coming through the EGR). When you disable the EGR by whatever method, the MAF no longer shows a decrease in airflow and trips a CEL (check engine light).

A simple device can be used to fool the ECU by modifying the MAF reading when the EGR is supposed to be on. Search for Epsilonian confederation for details. Also, the EGR duty cycle can be fine tuned using VagCom. Setting it to the minimum allowed value greatly decreases the intake fouling issue, and some people have been able to completely disable the EGR and avoid a CEL when the EGR is dialed to minimum with VagCom. I dont know if this will work for everyone though.

To answer your 2nd question, of course disabling an emissions device (EGR) will effect your emissions(increase NOx).

I have a problem with the dealer diagnosis that "the EGR cooler is leaking internally". I'm trying to figure out which way it would leak.

Allow me to think out loud here. The EGR is an exhaust gas-to-coolant heat exchanger. In order for the EGR system to operate, the EGR has to be at a higher pressure than the intake manifold pressure ... on the order of 1 atm (14 psi). Coolant pressures are on the order of 15psi. I'm thinking an internal cooler leak would cause coolant to leak into the EGR gas, and eventually would migrate into the intake manifold destined for the engine! /images/graemlins/eek.gif

That would certainly explain the rough running condition of the engine. I'm wondering what other damage might have been done? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

Or ... would the EGR gas leak into the coolant? What are the implications there?

This hurts my head ... /images/graemlins/confused.gif

Your first guess is more likely, that coolant is coming into the engine. This would be a bad thing if true.