2.0 CR170 Turbo size

turbo johan · Mar 25, 2011

Does anybody know the exact sizes of a CBBB turbo?
Are those wheels the same size as a GT1749VC or even smaller?
You can make good power out of it, but EGT goes high quite fast.
Even after deleted the DPF and made 2.5" downpipe..
I think turbo is just to small, but i didn't measure EMP yet.

Johan

Bojje · Mar 25, 2011

turbo johan said:
Does anybody know the exact sizes of a CBBB turbo?
Are those wheels the same size as a GT1749VC or even smaller?
You can make good power out of it, but EGT goes high quite fast.
Even after deleted the DPF and made 2.5" downpipe..
I think turbo is just to small, but i didn't measure EMP yet.

Johan

How much hp did you manage squeeze out?

Piranha · Mar 25, 2011

on a stock bmn or cbbb I'd expect 210-215 with dpf delete..

I have one coming i soon, will have exact numberds then.

turbo johan · Mar 25, 2011

210 HP.
Make more quite easy, but i dont want to set egt limit higher than 850 deg c...

Johan

turbo johan · Mar 25, 2011

210 HP.
Make more quite easy, but i dont want to set egt limit higher than 850 deg c...
Johan

ryanp · Mar 26, 2011

I've got 5 CR turbo's here, cant remember which engines they came from exactly, I'll dig out the measurements i took a while ago, I'd say they are a little smaller than a VA IIRC

slow-moe · Mar 26, 2011

Specs were close to 17VC with slightly larger compressor inducer and turbine exducer (36.5 and 38.3mm). Borg Warner has a restrictive vane area (lower and oldstyle vanes). Compressor wheel has nickel-based coating.

ryanp · Mar 26, 2011

i've emailed the pics over Johan

seems i only have a 136ps turbo!

Rub87 · Mar 26, 2011

Never dyno'd mine nor measured egt but it does 245-250 kph gps (if you can wait) with 18" wheels so I guess it will have 200hp easily

altough after 10 min wot nothing melted so seems EGT is not really a problem.. oil becomes quite warm altough.. increasng boost more up high does not change lambda

Its now working fine for 40.000km, doesnt want to blow altough I have a 2056vl ready to replace it

Turbine looks same size as 140hp unit but with less vanes

TDIfreak · Mar 26, 2011

turbo johan said:
210 HP.
Make more quite easy, but i dont want to set egt limit higher than 850 deg c...
Johan

2.0 CR injectors are quite big, aren't they

.

900C is usually the limit of full fueling for me. Sometimes even more but our roads are so slow that turbos don't get to melt. I know in Holland you drive a bit faster

.

ArturCosta · Mar 26, 2011

turbo johan said:
210 HP.
Make more quite easy, but i dont want to set egt limit higher than 850 deg c...
Johan

850?

Have you done a log with it stock? At WOT you wont get past 600ºC easy. 200hp you wont get even 700ºC if tune is done properly.

And this is with DPF and everything full stock.

Rub87 · Mar 26, 2011

TDIfreak said:
2.0 CR injectors are quite big, aren't they .

900C is usually the limit of full fueling for me. Sometimes even more but our roads are so slow that turbos don't get to melt. I know in Holland you drive a bit faster .

I run IIRC around 1ms duration at 1860bar at 4000rpm

ArturCosta · Mar 26, 2011

Rub87 said:
I run IIRC around 1ms duration at 1860bar at 4000rpm

What is your SOI at that RPM ?

Rub87 · Mar 26, 2011

end of injection shortly after tdc

turbo johan · Mar 26, 2011

This car made 760+ deg c stock on dyno run.
I have the feeling the egt sensor is not good..

Johan

Rub87 · Mar 26, 2011

ArturCosta said:
850?

Have you done a log with it stock? At WOT you wont get past 600ºC easy. 200hp you wont get even 700ºC if tune is done properly.

And this is with DPF and everything full stock.

200hp and 700 deg seems also unrealisticly low.. imo

ArturCosta · Mar 26, 2011

Rub87 said:
end of injection shortly after tdc

1ms that is 24º... I think that car makes stock 18ºC at 4000rpm...

Did you see for example the injection of a PPD170 ? SOI and duration?
Its all agains what you like to say of no injection past TDC

ArturCosta · Mar 26, 2011

turbo johan said:
This car made 760+ deg c stock on dyno run.
I have the feeling the egt sensor is not good..

Johan

I have no log of the CR version but the PPD version did 590ºC stock 4th ant 5th gear run at highway. And with fuel for 200hp it did 630 safe place.

Probably the one I remaped was faulty. Thing is , the car is really fast and EGTs keep really low.. and probe is in the turbo.

Rub87 · Mar 26, 2011

maybe you read t5 temp after the oxicat?

ArturCosta · Mar 26, 2011

Rub87 said:
maybe you read t5 temp after the oxicat?

PPD only has 1 EGT probe and its between exhaust manifold and turbo.

I also think that is a really low value but same day did some changes on a moded 1.9 150hp FIAT and stock it also did not go over 600ºC ever.... but this car has no cat...

turbo johan · Mar 26, 2011

Egt goes over 850 after 220 km/h.
4th gear runs are no problem.
customer drive daily flat out for quote some time....

Johan

ArturCosta · Mar 26, 2011

turbo johan said:
Egt goes over 850 after 220 km/h.
4th gear runs are no problem.
customer drive daily flat out for quote some time....

Johan

Ohh that is a problem.
Max I did was 200kmh and max egt 630. Still here its not very warm outside.

But on the ecu software stock limit of EGT is set to start taking fuel ate 530ºC and a lot of fuel at 590ºC... so I dont think my probe was faulty.

Cant you just keep the EGT limiter at a value and let the ECU take fuel when it gets there?

TDIfreak · Mar 27, 2011

I think Artur's Celsius figures have offset of about -200... maybe he reads wrong temp sensor. Passat PPD has all three sensors as any other VAG with DPF I know.

Some temps from my VCDS logs:

Stock Tiguan CR140 makes 684 degrees Celsius on 4th gear to the end (4350rpm) and it was about zero degrees outside. Did not tune it yet.

Stock Passat PD170 made 776 Celsius at 4500 rpm last Summer on the dyno.

Stock Superb PD 2.0 8V 140hp made 718 Celsius last Summer and 930C with empty DPF and 34->32 degree Duration @ 4200->4500 rpm.

T5 BNZ with empty DPF and better IC also 930C from 3800rpm up, tune was aggressive.

ArturCosta · Mar 27, 2011

Where do you read the values on Vag Com then?

Here is what I read on a Audi A4 2.0TDI 170hp PPD:

Cant find other channel that reads EGTs besides this one.
That is a 4th gear from 2800rpm to 5th gear at 4000rpm. Stock.

Remaped on the same spot did 630ºC.

Obviously on a dyno it will read more but as you see you dont need offsets just a bit of brains to understand what I was talking about.

TDIfreak · Mar 27, 2011

Artur, you have wrong group, that 033 has not EGT before turbo.

There's a lot more groups and you'll find it.
Hope you have found the correct EGT limiter in sw, that will tell you that stock EGT/fueling limit is way above 600C.

Audi BRD 018 AQ stock 695C, mod without DPF 790C in November cold weather, speed no more than 150 km/h.

Johan, just limit 6th gear so it stays in safe levels.

correcaminos · Mar 28, 2011

Artur, log channel 75. EGT sensors are correlative (turbo, pre and post DPF)

turbo johan · Mar 30, 2011

With CR MB33 gives EGT before turbo.
PPD MB33 gives temp before DPF.
MB75 gives block 1 EGT before turbo (black connector), block 2 EGT before DPF (brown con), block 4 EGT after DPF (orange con).

Did a PPD170 yesterday and made 900 deg EGT with 206 hp and no DPF.
Today i had a CR140 makes 756 deg bone stock..

Johan

Rub87 · Mar 30, 2011

If you do CR gen2 with Solenoid düsen you find out the head it slightly better than the gen1 PD like head =)

turbo johan · Mar 30, 2011

Ruben do you have pictures?
CAGA gives different number for head than CABA etc.
What is the big differents between these heads?

Johan

Rub87 · Mar 30, 2011

the first cr head was just made almost like the 16v PD head, so the inlet ports had to go sort of around the PD injector, the new head you can recognize easily by the agr passage going through the head at the gearbox side, here the inlet ports are nicer because the CR injector is much smaller, and this space is now free for inlet ports

2.0 CR170 Turbo size

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