Anyone using NAPA GOLD oil fisters and

Runaway_TDI · Feb 24, 2008

Anyone using NAPA GOLD oil filters and

are you haveing any problems with them. I used one on the last oil change and developed an oil leak. Almost leaked about a 1/2 quart in 10k miles. Looking at the shield you would think it leaked the entire crakcase out. Any way it looked like it leaked out the top of the oil filter housing. Never did this til I used a NAPA GOLD filter. The filter cap was tight. My first thought was a bad o-ring or I forgot to put it in. But it was there and not damaged. I still had the old o-ring so I compared them and they appear to be the same thickness. I put another NAPA GOLD in it today and it appears to be leaking out the top again. I'm thinking of getting a filter from the dealership to see if it stops leaking. But was wondering if anyone here is using the NAPA GOLD filters and if you are having any problems with them.

If not is there a known problem with the oil filter housings?

Mach1 · Feb 24, 2008

I dont use the Napa gold filters on my Ford diesel trucks and I sure as..., dont use their junk filters on my Jetta, I use ALL OEM filters since day one, Haven't had any problems yet..

There is a known problem on the 6L Ford where as the filter bleeds down and doesn't contain the oil in the filter housing, so every time you start the truck, the filter housing has to fill with oil. So every dry start, it is even drier using the NAPA filter, I dont use them..
I would have thought that a NAPA 'GOLD' filter meant something..

I dont recomend them to any one and I use the OEM filters to keep people in the waranty period.

Blowin Oil · Feb 25, 2008

I have been using the Napa Gold filters since 5k miles and have never had any problems on my 06.5 TDI. I just did my 30k mile oil change and not one problem. I have a supply to last me to 90k. I'm not sure why you are having problems, but mine has never leaked a drop. I usually dip the rubber O rings in fresh oil before I install it, not sure if that helps anything. Also did you replace the smaller O ring as well? Try the OEM filter and let us know if that corrects the problem.

SootHappens · Feb 25, 2008

I normally use OEM filters, but at my 40k service I had sucked out all the oil and tossed the old filter before I realized I hadn't ordered a new filter with the oil.
Had to run to Napa and get one. So far so good - about a thousand miles on the napa-gold with no probs

Runaway_TDI · Feb 25, 2008

Mach1 said:
I dont use the Napa gold filters on my Ford diesel trucks and I sure as..., dont use their junk filters on my Jetta, I use ALL OEM filters since day one, Haven't had any problems yet..

There is a known problem on the 6L Ford where as the filter bleeds down and doesn't contain the oil in the filter housing, so every time you start the truck, the filter housing has to fill with oil. So every dry start, it is even drier using the NAPA filter, I dont use them..
I would have thought that a NAPA 'GOLD' filter meant something..

I dont recomend them to any one and I use the OEM filters to keep people in the waranty period.

And this has what to do with my question about NAPA GOLD filters on a TDI? Not much help here...

Runaway_TDI · Feb 25, 2008

Blowin Oil said:
I have been using the Napa Gold filters since 5k miles and have never had any problems on my 06.5 TDI. I just did my 30k mile oil change and not one problem. I have a supply to last me to 90k. I'm not sure why you are having problems, but mine has never leaked a drop. I usually dip the rubber O rings in fresh oil before I install it, not sure if that helps anything. Also did you replace the smaller O ring as well? Try the OEM filter and let us know if that corrects the problem.

Yea, I was using OEM filters and tried the NAPA filter the last oil change and now the oil leak. Yep, sure did put the smaller o-ring on the bottom and the big o-ring on top. They were both coated in oil before install. Got me perplexed, thats for sure. Won't have time to change filter til later in the week. Will let you know what happens.

lost1wing · Feb 25, 2008

The Napa gold filter made by Wix? Sure, I use them. Never had a bad one on any car that I have owned.

lost1wing · Feb 25, 2008

Mach1 said:
There is a known problem on the 6L Ford where as the filter bleeds down and doesn't contain the oil in the filter housing,

Please check your filter name. On my Fords, I also use the Napa gold filters. If I am not mistaken, the Napa Gold spin-on filters have a check valve in them, but some Napa cheap filters do not.

Mach1 · Feb 25, 2008

And this has what to do with my question about NAPA GOLD filters on a TDI? Not much help here...

I hope there is not the same problem as what we see on the 6L Ford's, because they leak down and dont contain the oil in the oil filter housing so when you start your engine you get a true dry start each and every time...

Now how does this relate to a TDI?? I will spell it out for you...If it happens with another of their filter WITH the same oil filter housing design, then I would be leary to use them..I have to ask, does anyone have an oil pressure gauge to see if this is what is happening..You can see this on the 6L Fords, it takes a good 3-5 seconds for the oil pressure to come up, now without an oil pressure gauge how can you tell for sure?

I was trying to pass some good info along, about a certain filter manufacturer, I guess disregard this post if you are happy and you have oil pressure..I wont use em..

Tim Birney · Feb 26, 2008

To simplify the discussion...
You do hunt down, and purchase the correct oil, 505.01, correct?
Then what possible advantage could there be to go on the cheap with the filter that the Oil passes through?

lost1wing · Feb 26, 2008

My point is ... Napa Gold filters for my Fords and TDI are made by Wix. They are good filters. The cheaper Napa filters are made by some other company. I will only buy the Napa Gold filters from Napa. I have been for years and never had a problem with them.

dhdenney · Feb 26, 2008

OK I'm not really seeing the correlation between the housing leaking and the filter element itself. Looks to me like a problem with NAPA Gold's large o-ring, not the filter itself.

Tim Birney · Feb 26, 2008

lost1wing said:
My point is ... Napa Gold filters for my Fords and TDI are made by Wix. They are good filters. The cheaper Napa filters are made by some other company. I will only buy the Napa Gold filters from Napa. I have been for years and never had a problem with them.

My point is/was why skew from the OEM?
My F-250 saw nothing but OEM Filters, and My Jetta's/Passat sees nothing but OEM.
EOL
(End Of Line in computer speak)

Mach1 · Feb 26, 2008

I can tell you a fact...If the oring is sepping oil externally, then it is letting air in the filter housing which will allow the oil level to fall inside the filter housing causing the oil pump to work harder/longer and creating an extended/uneeded 'DRY START'..

So may it be from their filter design on the 6L and possibly on the 1.9 TDI, But also from there not being able to spec the correct size oring, They are inducing unnecessary Dry Starts..

Oh well, I known about them and have witnesed it, I dont/wont use them. As Tim stated Why take a chance?

lost1wing · Feb 27, 2008

dhdenney said:
OK I'm not really seeing the correlation between the housing leaking and the filter element itself. Looks to me like a problem with NAPA Gold's large o-ring, not the filter itself.

Someone has an opinion that NAPA GOLD filters are crap and they let the oil drain back to the sump (I'm guessing a spin-on filter for a Ford), which has nothing to do with the original post (you are correct). The correlation is that I use both type filters, NAPA GOLD for the TDI, and NAPA GOLD for my fords. I never had a problem with NAPA GOLD filters leaking past the check valve (spin-on type) or leaking past the o-rings (TDI).

It is posible that the OP installed a defective o-ring causing his leak or for some reason the o-ring was damaged during the installation. I wouldn't start blaming NAPA GOLD filters (WIX) without at least trying another one.

OEM stuff is fine most of the time. I tend to use products that are reliable, and to me NAPA GOLD filters fit.

lost1wing · Feb 27, 2008

Mach1 said:
I

So may it be from their filter design on the 6L and possibly on the 1.9 TDI, But also from there not being able to spec the correct size oring, They are inducing unnecessary Dry Starts..

I have not seen or had this problem on either type.

Runaway_TDI · Feb 27, 2008

Wow...

didn't mean to start a range war here.

I just checked after putting on a 1000 miles and appears to be dry

. Beats the HECK out of me why the first one did what it did. Will continue to check it as the miles pile up. I generally put on 1000 -1500 miles a week, sometimes more. Anyway, thanks for replies.

Mach1 · Feb 27, 2008

All BS a side, the engine mounted, element style, oil filter that is being used more and more in the automotive arena, its very critical that the filter be manufactured to tight design specs. This is to ensure the filter housing doesn't 'Bleeddown'. May it be from improper filter design, sealing problems created by dimension inaccuracies, it is absolutely imparitive that the filter be exactly manufactured to extremely tight OEM specifications.

If there is any dimensional deviation, leaking oring, etc. the gravity will pull the oil out of the housing and drain back into the pan. Thus creating a dry start condition.

I have experienced this with the NAPA GOLD filters on the Ford/International VT365-more commonly referred to a 6 liter. (not the 7.3 that has a canister type filter), Lost wing did you catch this one.

The only way you can see this is on a vehicle that has an oil pressure gauge, you can actually count while the oil pressure takes to build up and register. This is detrimental to engine life..The experts will show that 95% of engine oil wear is directly contributed to the dry start syndrome. Extending this dry start time is not good.

I idenify which filters have an effect on engine operation-especially dry start conditions, to rule these out, and not using them in my applications..

I am not trying to pick on anyone/any brand, this is what I have experienced and trying to pass experience and knowledge along..

I do own a 6L VT-365(I say again, not a 7.3) International engine Ford truck that this has happened on. I dont use the NAPA Gold filter on it any more, I use OEM.

You can take a chance and use other then an OEM, but for the cost savings its a small price to pay to keep a $15K engine meeting waranty requirements..

You can pay me now or you can pay me later..

daleho1 · Feb 27, 2008

Valve in base of module

This doesn't address the filter issues but would the dry starts. Assuming (big word) Bentley is correct, there is a valve in the filter housing, pg03-18
"By removing filter element, a valve in base of module is opened that allows oil in filter housing to automatically back into crankcase. Changing oil filter first allows the used oil to be drained or siphoned out with oil in pan. This prevents oil in module from remaining in engine and mixing with new oil."

if this is correct the housing would stay full after shut down but with the air getting in from a bad O ring would the oil still bleed back thru the oil lines?

lost1wing · Feb 28, 2008

Mach1 said:
I have experienced this with the NAPA GOLD filters on the Ford/International VT365-more commonly referred to a 6 liter. (not the 7.3 that has a canister type filter), Lost wing did you catch this one.
quote]

Caught it. If the specs are off on the filter construction, oil could drain back to the sump seeping past the o-ring. I don't hear a dry start on my TDI, except after an oil change. I don't even hear it now since I started pouring fresh oil into the filter housing.

My friend has a Ford 6l and an oil pressure gauge. I know he uses the cheapest filter known to man, so I am curious of what his oil pressure looks like at start up.

Runaway.... You didn't start a war. You asked for an opinion and you received a few of them. Some people have strong feelings for OEM products. I do to, but not on oil filters. I do look for a quality filter however, like Wix.

Mach1 · Feb 29, 2008

Lost Wing the 6L oil pressure gauge will work for the test, FWIW-this problem with the NAPA Gold filters for the 6L is all over the Ford Diesel threads..

Audible tests are good as well..

sohccammer427 · Mar 6, 2008

Runaway, I don't think anyone has addressed the torque value for the oil filter housing cap.

Have you tightened it to spec (25Nm or 18 ft-lbs)??

If the o-ring is not defective I cannot imagine why it would leak other that not being tight enough or possibly the cap is defective.

btw what is the part number for the NAPA Gold oil filter?

sohccammer427 · Mar 10, 2008

I went to NAPA the other day and ordered a case (6 qts) of Synpower 5w-40 and went ahead and bought a Napa Gold oil filter . I believe the part # was 7083?

Anwhow it, or course, is not a zig zag like OEM. But the filter is stamped "made in Poland", where is believe the BRM engine is made

Filter appears to be very good quality. O-rings were actually sealed in a plastic bag. Napa appears to be have attempted to supply a quality filter. The GOLD line is suppose to equal or exceed OEM.

Probably won't use it until mid 2008. Will follow up it any issues.

____________
'06.5 Jetta TDi

sohccammer427 · Mar 11, 2008

Wrong o-ring placement

Post from another thread:

I think I figured it out. I was pushing the o-ring too far up. I took the cover off of the oil filter cannister and looked at the o-ring. It was split in 3 places. In 2 of those places the o-ring had completely separated. There is no way an o-ring can work in the bottom groove. There is another groove about 1/8 - 1/4" from the bottom that holds the o-ring fine and slides into the cylinder cleanly. I was just using the wrong groove! Can someone confirm this? There is no clear instruction in the shop manual that VW sells. I am use to a Mercedes where there is only one possible place to put the o-ring.

From another post (same thread):

Yes its looks like it should go at the top but in fact does not. The ring placement is about 1/8" from the top and like posted previously there is a groove at the top of the threads.

This appears to be the most logical explanation for the leak from the canister cap.

Anyone using NAPA GOLD oil fisters and

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