Biodiesel as a Fuel Additive

1854sailor

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I have access to ASTM 6751 biodiesel that I am considering using using as a lubricity improver in our Golf Sport Wagen. It will be within VW's 5% mandate and I am wondering if anyone has any opinions.
 

740GLE

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Do it, no harm in the system as long as you do decent road trip travel at least once a tank. Only concern for bio diesel is fuel dilution in the oil, but at 5% I don't believe there has been any reported cases of issues.

Also any additional sales help the bio diesel industry, they have to be hurting with oil prices so low.

I wish we had biodiesel readily available near me or at least a mandated 5% blend.
 

1854sailor

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Thanks. I'm on the board of our local biodiesel coop www.baltimorebiodiesel.org and we've been using B99 in our Golf and B20-B50 in the Passat since 2008. I was planning on just filling several ½ gallon jugs to make a B5 blend for a 10 gallon fill up.
 

St.Hubbins

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i've splash mixed every tank with B20 on our Golf and now the A3 - sometimes closer to 7or 8%. Golf ran like a top for 60k+ before buyback.
a bit off topic - any reason i shouldn't consider going for a '15 GSW with 10 or 20k on odometer? plenty available in low $20's, which would pocket us several thousand after A3 buyback... wondering if prices will be even more attractive come holidays
 

Blue_Hen_TDI

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Most of the big studies done the past 10-15 years concluded that a B2 blend provides excellent lubricity and any higher percentage has diminishing returns in terms of cost, additional lubricity, and miles per gallon. Unless you have other eco-type goals and motivations, B2 is about as far as you need to go with bio, and "need" is a very subjective term here - the later iterations of the hpfp on the VW CRD's has proven far more robust than the 09-12ish variety.
 
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St.Hubbins

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but if B20 is cheaper than D2, which it consistently is here, than no diminishing returns... unless you think an 8% blend is going to damage the DPF or something
 

Blue_Hen_TDI

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but if B20 is cheaper than D2, which it consistently is here, than no diminishing returns... unless you think an 8% blend is going to damage the DPF or something
If it's cheap enough to offset the reduced mpg you'll see from it, then that certainly checks off the fuel cost portion of the decision. Then you'd just have some questions to answer on oil dilution, injector deposits, dpf life, etc and if you are good with all that with no real additional benefit to lubricity, then you might make the personal decision to use B20.

I wouldn't, when B2 is cheaper to achieve (we don't have a B20 mandate or state subsidies for it here so D2 is obviously cheaper) and meets VW warranty requirements.

But again, at the end of the day it's a personal decision. Do what makes you happy.
 

740GLE

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but if B20 is cheaper than D2, which it consistently is here, than no diminishing returns... unless you think an 8% blend is going to damage the DPF or something

Issue is oil fuel dilution, if anything I believe Bio is better than dino for the DPF.
 

St.Hubbins

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Issue is oil fuel dilution, if anything I believe Bio is better than dino for the DPF.
gotcha - so you think my Golf would've started having issues after 60k? in case i wasn't clear, Blue Hen, i was never running B20 - i was splash mixing into D2 at somewhere in the 5-8% range.
our B20 pump is always 25 or 30cents below D2, fwiw.
 

MichaelB

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I don't know but I have been following the biodiesel threads since my first 2009 JSW. The oil dilution issue is always mentioned. Has anybody here had a real issue with said oil dilution either showing up in an oil analysis or engine wear or failure? Like I said it is always mentioned but to my knowledge, no one has ever made any reports about it in their TDI. DBW cautioned against biodiesel due to injector coking and has witnessed it.
 

kjclow

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gotcha - so you think my Golf would've started having issues after 60k? in case i wasn't clear, Blue Hen, i was never running B20 - i was splash mixing into D2 at somewhere in the 5-8% range.
our B20 pump is always 25 or 30cents below D2, fwiw.
Many states (especially farm states) have tax incentives for biofuel blends. One of the reasons by 10% ethanol blends are almost always cheaper than straight regular.
 

740GLE

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I don't know but I have been following the biodiesel threads since my first 2009 JSW. The oil dilution issue is always mentioned. Has anybody here had a real issue with said oil dilution either showing up in an oil analysis or engine wear or failure? Like I said it is always mentioned but to my knowledge, no one has ever made any reports about it in their TDI. DBW cautioned against biodiesel due to injector coking and has witnessed it.
I'd just go with what VW stated about those who live in B20 mandated states of reducing the OCI to what 5-7K instead of 10K to cover their butts.

But I haven't seen any reports of catastrophic dilution.

Biggest thing to remember is that BioD evaporation temp is higher than D2, and if you go on short trips with high % BioD the oil may not get up to temp to evaporate the BioD. But if you were running higher percentage, 50-75%, and put on 100+ miles every time you turned the key, you prob won't have much issues, but frequent checking would prob be in order.
 

2015vwgolfdiesel

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Okie here ~~ I'd be happy to pay to keep BIO out of my tank

But noooooooooo Idiots somewhere in gov requires us to buy BIO 5

Feel same about 100 % gasoline in wife's 2015 Toyota RAV4 LIMITED

As we bought her new car, the requirement was only RUG. Naturally she loves her car and was questioning why she should pay 'bout $.22 MORE per gallon

I told her BIO was like corn, soybeans, wheat, sugarcane, etc. or something else.

If nothing else, will be a selling point come time to sell her RAV4:D
 
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PD Rig

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My point exactly!
I run b20. I have done multiple uoas on my 2012 golf. Nothing but normal wear without the flashpoint dropping and no indication of fuel dilution. I have indicated the b20 use to the lab. Does not mean others have had the same experience. If you own a tdi and do all short trips inner city you may be headed for trouble. My driving is mixed but I really do not do all that many short trips. The grocery story is 2 miles away. And that only happens once a week. My 2 cents...


Edit: forgot to mention I do 10k mile oci. No problems thus far
 
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2015vwgolfdiesel

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I run b20. I have done multiple uoas on my 2012 golf. Nothing but normal wear without the flashpoint dropping and no indication of fuel dilution. I have indicated the b20 use to the lab. Does not mean others have had the same experience. If you own a tdi and do all short trips inner city you may be headed for trouble. My driving is mixed but I really do not do all that many short trips. The grocery story is 2 miles away. And that only happens once a week. My 2 cents...

Edit: forgot to mention I do 10k mile pic. No problems thus far

Which IS the point

There is-are folks who some-lot-any short hops.

And worse -- sometimes a life style changes, or even the driver-owner changes.

BIO will not safely fill all applications :mad:

And then issue of warranties :eek:
 

Lightflyer1

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Most diesel now days has some portion of bio in it. It isn't even required to be reported in some areas if it is below 5% or so. I used "up to 20%" as the sign says for 40k on my 2013 Passat tdi with no issues. I use the same now in my 2015 Beetle I just bought new. The 2015 EA288's I have read, have both a high and low oil level sensor, so should be easy to get noticed if fuel dilution raises the level.
 

740GLE

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Which IS the point
There is-are folks who some-lot-any short hops.
And worse -- sometimes a life style changes, or even the driver-owner changes.
BIO will not safely fill all applications :mad:
And then issue of warranties :eek:

Modern diesel emissions don't fit into all drivers life styles either, you can't pound a square peg thru a round hole.

Someone complaining of future issues because they put on 3-5K a year is same as the old may yelling at the sky cause it's blue.

/end rant
 

giuseppe_b

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My driving seems to include a fair portion of stop and go, but last evening I stopped with about 1 gal remaining, to fill up with diesel at a nearby truck travel centre. I thought it was B5, butit turns out that this station uses B10, according to the clerk who actually checked on this fact.
My GSW felt much better on the freeway. I figure putting B10 in with about a gallon of whatever diesel was in there before, wouldn't harm much. I may just wait about 1/2 tank and then add in some diesel from a normal station.
 
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