Volkswagen's Clean Air Act violations on 2009+ TDIs spark huge recall, investigations

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peiphil

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bubbagumpshrimp said:
Let's be real here....the EPA has been gunning for diesel engines for a while. All VW did here is give the EPA an excuse to go on a diesel witch-hunt (which the EPA is already talking about doing). What I expect to come out of this mess is an increase in hybrid and electric vehicle sales.
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I live in Canada
Can you picture me in a snow storm with an electric car?
What keeps the heater going?
Battery goes dead no heat get out and walk in a blizzard only to get hit by a snowplow
The EPA (smoke police ) guys travel how?
In a jet that's leaving that trail of soot that they I guess cant check or a free electric car they can drive for an hour or so at a time
Do they check the exhaust on powerplant chimneys?
Are these not what recharges these cars?
What about the fuel tax to maintain roads bridges etc.
Will I have to pay road tax on my next light bill?
 
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PlaneCrazy

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TDIintheLOU said:
Or not such a bargain if they can't pass emissions and can not be allowed back on the road. Let's face it if they could have fixed this over the past few years of this scam they would have before it cost the company billions. If I was a share holder I would be even more pissed than just being an owner.
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Nonsense, the EPA have already said that the cars remain legal to drive and sell.

Some dealers won't take them on trade so that's putting downward pressure on resale value, hence the speculation about bargains.

We aren't prepared to part with ours, so it won't be one of the bargains.
 
bhtooefr

bhtooefr

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SageBrush: Here's the letter, and the relevant text: http://pics3.tdiclub.com/data/3209/stop-sale-note3.pdf

Because of this situation, we are implementing an immediate stop-sale on new 4 cylinder TDI vehicles in dealer inventory, and on used 4 cylinder TDI vehicles in the Certified Pre-Owned (CPO) program. The system coding will be updated as soon as possible to reflect the stop-sale. In addition, we recommend not selling other used 4 cylinder TDI vehicles until the compliance issues have been addressed.
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In summary, new and CPO == mandatory stop sale, non-CPO used == recommended, but not mandatory, stop-sale.
 
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tsingtao

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Ultra Diesel said:
I purchased my 2014 Volkswagen Passat SEL TDI back in April of 2014. My previous vehicle was a 2011 Ford F150, which was averaging 15mpg while traveling 18k miles per year. I started to look for a better mpg alternative with great reviews, gas mileage and low emissions- "clean diesel"- to do my part in cleaning up the environment & further lower our dependency on foreign oil. The Passat back in 2014 was the perfect match!!! I really liked the car for the first 17 months of ownership with no issues to report & averaging 40 mpg per tank, driving highway 80% of the time. Fast Forward to 9/18/2015..A multi million dollar corporation has knowingly defrauded myself and every other consumer who has purchased a 2012 or newer VW TDI "CLEAN DIESEL" by installing an emissions defeater chip so they can claim the small car diesel market in the U.S. My trade in value has dropped 3k dollars since & now I cannot get rid of this fraud of an automobile. Myself and every other VW consumer should demand an immediate buy-back of our automobiles to make us consumers whole again. It's the only solution to this mess & I would've never purchased this vehicle because it most likely would've never been able to achieve the mpg and performance I was looking to attain. My hope is for an expedited and financially acceptable solution.
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Correction: 2009 or newer "Clean Diesel"; they came out in 2009.

Other than that, I agree completely.
 
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tsingtao

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turbobrick240 said:
I hate to burst your bubble, but NO auto ever made is cleaning up the environment. The best you can hope for is harm reduction. Folks like you who abandon ship at the first sign of rough seas are going to make for some great bargains on used TDI's. For god's sake get a prius .
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Do you have a big VW emblem in a shrine at your house? I can't all believe all the people who are defending them.

Yes, my car still drives great and is fun to drive, blah, blah, blah.

But also, YES, VW defrauded their customers by misrepresenting the product they were selling.
 
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SageBrush

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Was the 'clean diesel' marketing campaign started around the same time we think the emissions fraud began ? If so, the rabbit hole might go deeper than even I suspect.
 
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Bloggingemail973

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Meaningful Comparisons

I am looking for meaningful comparisons to help me decide what to do regarding my brand new 2015 Golf TDI. Although I know that the NoX emissions are 10-40 times greater than reported, what does that mean in the real world compared to a diesel repair van, a small bus, a school bus or a truck? What does that mean compared to a pre-2009 diesel rabbit? Also, my Golf has the AdBlue system, how much does that reduce NoX emissions and is it significantly better than the Golf's without AdBlue? Thanks!
 
turbobrick240

turbobrick240

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tsingtao said:
Do you have a big VW emblem in a shrine at your house? I can't all believe all the people who are defending them.

Yes, my car still drives great and is fun to drive, blah, blah, blah.

But also, YES, VW defrauded their customers by misrepresenting the product they were selling.
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No shrine here. I'm upset about the dishonesty too. I just don't get my panties all bunched up about it. I do very much like my tdi. Just as I did before "dieselgate".
 
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hikertdi

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SageBrush said:
I remember reading 30 km for the rural route. Presumably the other routes give distances as well.
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The report was very detailed for the pre-defined routes. The multi-state trip was in total 4000kms. It only really shows a 3 state map and a description of the overall route, Pages 28-30. The NOx results are on page 79. In the LA-SEA portion of the trip there is some data showing under 0.043gm/km for the Passat - the only car that did this trip. There are other data points more in line with the pre-defined routes ranging 0.1 to 0.7 gm/km. The SCR car "can" do better then the standard in some on road conditions. The report cites, hiway, flat, cruise control as an explaination for the good data. Something that never happened in routes 1-5, the pre-defined LA and San Fran routes.
 
Jimmy Coconuts

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tsingtao said:
Do you have a big VW emblem in a shrine at your house? I can't all believe all the people who are defending them.

Yes, my car still drives great and is fun to drive, blah, blah, blah.

But also, YES, VW defrauded their customers by misrepresenting the product they were selling.
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I've been enjoying the posts about having to "pry my TDI from my cold dead hands" etc, many of which have come from people who frequently complained about the reliability/durability issues with these cars, pre-dieselgate of course.....
 
1854sailor

1854sailor

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rotarykid said:
Actually Rudoff used peanut oil for his design..... and Ackroid the British inventer who first came up with the idea of a compression based combustion based engine, his design was based on using gun powder!:rolleyes::confused::eek:
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No, his original design used coal dust as fuel. Do some research… ;)
 
El Dobro

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SageBrush

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hikertdi said:
The report was very detailed for the pre-defined routes. The multi-state trip was in total 4000kms. It only really shows a 3 state map and a description of the overall route, Pages 28-30. The NOx results are on page 79. In the LA-SEA portion of the trip there is some data showing under 0.043gm/km for the Passat - the only car that did this trip. There are other data points more in line with the pre-defined routes ranging 0.1 to 0.7 gm/km. The SCR car "can" do better then the standard in some on road conditions. The report cites, hiway, flat, cruise control as an explaination for the good data. Something that never happened in routes 1-5, the pre-defined LA and San Fran routes.
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Ah ... sorry. Route mix-up.

Why don't you use the pre-defined routes ?
 
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Winchester92367

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Alright..am done. can't read ..anymore,,..All I will say is I love my TDI Jetta..the most fun car I have ever purchased... I drive it and is the most fun I can have with m clothes on..I love the 50+ miles highway milage..I love the 6 speed slush box. I just filled it up and if nice tomorrow a little drive and nice wash and detail.

Drive the crap out of your tdi's and have fun! Have a nice weekend folks..

John
 
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hikertdi

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SageBrush said:
Ah ... sorry. Route mix-up.

Why don't you use the pre-defined routes ?
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I've looked at them a lot, they have a lot to tell. Many people buy TDIs as they are on open hiways very often and put on lots of miles. The multi-state route is the only one with data showing the TDI capable of being below 0.04gm/km. Its possibly a very representative route for many owners. All the discussion about the poor performance in LA and San fran, but no one seems to acknowledge there is some data in the same report showing some conditions in standard.
 
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whipwarrior

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Yeah, I just washed & detailed my TDI this afternoon, which means it will definitely rain tomorrow, precluding any quality road time in my Golf. I really need to get out on the Interstate for a long drive to activate the regen. Maybe I'll get to take out the dinosaur burner next weekend. :D
 
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mmn

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Now that our summer water restrictions are finally lifted, I was able to get out and do a proper hand wash on my ride. Looks bad ass as ever, drives exactly how it did last week and still getting great mileage.

How many of the dorks on here whining about NOx levels and contributing to childhood asthma and not being able to drive their car in good conscience because environment ACTUALLY looked into any of the emissions details when you bought your car? Or did you buy it because it was fairly well built, expected to last because diesels have longevity and the mileage kicks ass so you'll save a few bucks along the way? Get real, you bought the car cause it has a nice mix of torque, fuel economy and fun - the "clean diesel" aspect was a nice bonus that we could all feel silently smug about. Quit acting like you were physically assaulted by VW. VW has sh*t the bed here, and they'll pay dearly.

The best part still - VW hasn't announced ANYTHING regarding exactly the vehicles that will be recalled/fixed/whatever, nor what they'll do for owners! Almost 400 pages of jackassery, with a few dozen level headed posts from a handful of sane people, but absolutely nothing more than pure opinions and speculation about what will come of this. Goin driving tomorrow, just to burn some diesel.
 
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SageBrush

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hikertdi said:
I've looked at them a lot, they have a lot to tell. Many people buy TDIs as they are on open hiways very often and put on lots of miles. The multi-state route is the only one with data showing the TDI capable of being below 0.04gm/km. Its possibly a very representative route for many owners. All the discussion about the poor performance in LA and San fran, but no one seems to acknowledge there is some data in the same report showing some conditions in standard.
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It was talked about some. The NOx spikes tend to correlate with either high load or low load.

To your point: I gather that is common for high mileage drivers to also drive fast. That is not in the ICCT at all.
 
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bmali98

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Well did get the HARD NOx LIFE sticker made up after work and put it on the rear glass. Instantly regretted not placing the x on the top. My iPad is being stupid so I can't post a pic.

Then after I got the sticker on, loaded the family in the car and went to the Lindsay Ex for the tractor pulls. The smoke was so thick I thought they might close part of the midway.

Ha, if this post doesn't say where I stand on the emissions matter.. ......
 
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Sooner

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Bloggingemail973 said:
I am looking for meaningful comparisons to help me decide what to do regarding my brand new 2015 Golf TDI. Although I know that the NoX emissions are 10-40 times greater than reported, what does that mean in the real world compared to a diesel repair van, a small bus, a school bus or a truck? What does that mean compared to a pre-2009 diesel rabbit? Also, my Golf has the AdBlue system, how much does that reduce NoX emissions and is it significantly better than the Golf's without AdBlue? Thanks!
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oddly there have been no official tests. A non EPA test with done by my wonderful school WVU using criteria they determined. First for you, your car has a completely upgraded engine which was never tested. It was thrown under the bus by the Embarrassed EPA which VW lied to since the May 2014 test of older tdi engines. The 2015 my be in good shape but since there has been a massive over reaction this is what we get.
 
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ChemMan

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hikertdi said:
Agreed. In CA and NYC, the EV makes a good deal of sense, and since power in generated locally, they also are in standard so to speak.

I still find the multi-state data in the WVU report highly interesting (along with the X5). The Passat had a number of NOx readings well under the spec in the steady speed hiway section. And on the whole the numbers came in around 5-6x spec. But the WVU report does not give enough data to truly calculate a proper g/mile avg. You can only equally weight each segment of the reported data. No miles or Kms are given.
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The distance of each segment is given plus average speed, maps, elevation, acceleration, and probably more details than you could possibly want.

The Jetta works out to 1734 mg/mi across all the test routes. The Passat 903 mg/mi.
 
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Sooner

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hikertdi said:
Agreed. In CA and NYC, the EV makes a good deal of sense, and since power in generated locally, they also are in standard so to speak.

I still find the multi-state data in the WVU report highly interesting (along with the X5). The Passat had a number of NOx readings well under the spec in the steady speed hiway section. And on the whole the numbers came in around 5-6x spec. But the WVU report does not give enough data to truly calculate a proper g/mile avg. You can only equally weight each segment of the reported data. No miles or Kms are given.
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That is because the WVU report while interesting was not official or sanctioned by EPA. Real test procedures are certainly coming soon which will be standardized. this could take a while. Meanwhile VW gets less healthy every day from their NOx and lack of business..hurt VW but do not kill them off.

Heck even after ww2 the us rebuilt the very industry under the Marshall plan to get Germany back on its feet after hanging some key villains. This mess is insulting to Americans when you consider who rebuilt Germany. However 20 grams per person of extra NOx per year is light years from WW2 given the 100,000 grams we all produce per year.. Fix the problem and move on should be the spirit of things after some fines and restitution that is
 
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SageBrush

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VW is telling Europe that the models built for Euro6 compliance do not have the cheat installed, yet the ICCT on-road study of 32 cars that were supposed to be at least Euro6 compliant overall do very poorly in NOx emissions overall.
 
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