BRM Camshaft replacement: DIY or HSDI?

LF06VWJTDI · Mar 25, 2011

I received the camshaft kit I ordered from bleachedbora today. In the end I decided to go with the BEW camshaft mostly because it was readily available and for reliability, since apparently they're better engineered than BRM camshafts.

Anyways, here's now my dilemma: I was asked $1300 (worst case scenario if head has to be taken off and sent to a shop to have it redone). Cash is tight right now and that expense, on top of what I've already spent for the kit, is going to hurt quite a bit for quite a while.

I am not a mechanic, and those minor repairs I've done to my TDI during the 5 years since I bought it, I did them after hours spent on reading my Bentley and researching on this site. I certainly have never performed any significant repairs such as the one this would be.

I am considering doing the work myself, to save some precious cash, and I understand that a job many of you can do in 6 hours is probably going to take me 6 full week-ends, mostly spent on reading the various DIY's on this site and myturbodiesel.

So to all of you diesel gurus out there, the $64,000 question: What are the chances of a total amateur like me engaging in this endeavour and actually live to tell the successful story?

Do It Yourself or Have Someone Do It? (in case you were wondering what the other weird acronym stood for)

cevans · Mar 25, 2011

Have someone do it. Worst case scenario is major head damage. I think $1300 in labor is very steep, however. Call some TDI Gurus to see what they charge for this job.

Mach1 · Mar 25, 2011

For someone that doesnt do them regularly, I would caution, its not a good job to stop and come back in a couple of days...

Its an intense/anal required job..have to pay attention, and be very anal about every move, takes 3-4 jobs to get comfortable..

You could probably do the job but cant mess up..

Hope this helps..

Ol'Rattler · Mar 26, 2011

If they told you "the head may have to come off", they don't know what they are doing and will probably use the "mark and pray method to install the timing belt and Fubar your timing when they put it back together. Best to go to someone that actually knows these engines.

Check out the oiling mod that Franko6 came up with. It would probably make the new cam last longer.

BleachedBora · Mar 26, 2011

Get a hold of TDIJetta99 or Hevster1, both are relatively close, would cost less, and do a great job

.

-BB

chittychittybangbang · Mar 26, 2011

I would DIY since "Cash is tight right now". However, if you're not good at following instructions and have no mechanical experience or aptitude, maybe not because it will cost you more to repair what you mess up. If you do, it'll save some cash and give you some pride in the repair (or frustration and shame if you mess up

) There is a detailed step by step pictorial on my website if you want to DIY.

Prepare, read, reread the instructions, and it should be doable in 1 day if you reuse the timing belt (no need to remove motor mount).

mnguy · Mar 27, 2011

If you do it yourself you will have to buy tools for the timing belt and you will need a nice torque wrench. It is not that difficult if you follow the instructions on this site, they have it outlined so well that if you read and read again and take your time you will have no problem. When I did my cam I left the injector pump on and turned the cam 90 degrees and slid it right out, you will need the seal for the other end of the cam. I also bought a dead blow hammer and "set" the bearings as I read on this site, they have little tabs on them to align and when you put it all together it looks like it needs a good smack to align everything. I bought a chiltons when I was 16 and tore apart a dual overhead cam v6 to replace the head gaskets and all went well. You have to start somewhere and knowing your car is a very good thing and the money you save is amazing.

Harvieux · Mar 27, 2011

How about the dial gauge and stand set-up, special cam hub puller, and special cam counter hold tool? You could probably shade tree some of the steps but, I don't think I would chance it. Later!

LF06VWJTDI · Mar 27, 2011

Thanks to all for the good advice.

I thought I did not have to touch the timing belt...why should I buy tools for that?

TwoTone · Mar 27, 2011

LF06VWJTDI said:
Thanks to all for the good advice.

I thought I did not have to touch the timing belt...why should I buy tools for that?

Timing Belt- Times the cam to the crank.
It runs on sprockets that are attached to both. Not sure how you planned on getting the cam out without taking the belt and sprocket off.

LF06VWJTDI · Mar 27, 2011

I guess I got more reading to do...

unionamt · Mar 27, 2011

I've got a cam coming my way soon, and I plan to tackle it on my own. I figured to get cam pulley off I would use a brass punch, and install it with the sprocket on using the metalnerd tool as a counterhold to torque it. Frank gives an alternative method for setting the rocker lash here:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=306911
All in all it doesn't seem like a tough job, and there are ways to get around some of the special tooling. Good luck with whatever you choose

Harvieux · Mar 28, 2011

unionamt said:
I've got a cam coming my way soon, and I plan to tackle it on my own. I figured to get cam pulley off I would use a brass punch, and install it with the sprocket on using the metalnerd tool as a counterhold to torque it. Frank gives an alternative method for setting the rocker lash here:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=306911
All in all it doesn't seem like a tough job, and there are ways to get around some of the special tooling. Good luck with whatever you choose

Kudos to Frank for showing how to set up injector lash without using the dial gauge and dial gauge holder set-up.

I've gotten quite efficient using the dial guage system however, I could save about 10-15 minutes off the job using his line-up process instead. I also like his discovery of backing off the crank followed by rotating the cam clockwise to allow for the cam to be removed w/o having to remove the tandem pump. This process not only saves time, it also saves the need to purchase a tandem pump gasket. Later!

TDIJetta99 · Mar 28, 2011

$1300 is a LOT for labor to do the cam/lifters and whatnot.. Even if I charge the full 7.5 hours book time (quick online search for Motor labor time) it comes out to less than half of that..

LF06VWJTDI · Mar 28, 2011

Guys, thank you so much to everyone for your precious advice. In the end I decided to take my car into the trusted hands of a diesel guru, and that guy is TDIJetta99. I plan on putting at least another 250K miles on my TDI and I just can't take any chances on hacking it.

I also decided I will go with the BRM camshaft rather than the BEW, I read tons of material on this site about the one vs the other and again, I'd rather go with the appropriate equipment than taking any chances with a different piece.

BleachedBora is going to swap the right camshaft to me, no questions asked. Which also brings me to one last comment: I'm sure all vendors on this site are nice trustworthy people, but I've done business with BleachedBora quite a few times now and in the past, and I have to say the guy is a true gentleman and he'll take care of you any way he can. I super recommend him over and over again. I just felt I needed to say that.

Dimitri16V · Mar 28, 2011

if anybody needs the cam holder and pulley puller for the PDs, I have the VAG variety and can rent them.

LF06VWJTDI · Apr 10, 2011

Well, I went to Port Jervis, NY this past Friday and took my TDI to TDIJetta99's shop. I rented a UHaul truck with a dolly and that's how I towed the car all the way there. It was so bad that when it came time to unload it from the dolly, the car didn't even have the power to roll off the 1.5in. little hump that is on the platform where the tires sit on. Thick clouds of pitch black smoke everywhere.
When TDIJetta99 heard the sound of the engine, he thought the problem was more severe than anticipated, possibly something wrong with the head.
Nevertheless, Jason (TDIJetta99) performed the cam replacement using the kit I bought from Aaron BleachedBora, in a stunningly short (for me at least) 2.5 hours, and when he fired "Teedee" up the engine sounded like it had just come out off the factory. We took it for a ride and it ran beautiful!
The cam Jason replaced was very badly worn out, all lobes were scratched and had deep grooves in them, excavated by God knows what.
But, thanks to the very talented and skillful hands of TDIJetta99, my nightmare is now over, my baby has fully recovered from "open heart surgery"

and I can enjoy her for many more thousands of miles.
I wanted to thank Jason again for getting my car back to life. You're definitely going to see me for all extraordinary maintenance, buddy. You truly know your trade and I feel very comfortable in letting you touch my car. Good job, dude.

Henrick · Apr 10, 2011

-What cam did you end up, an OEM one or aftermarket?
-What was your break-in procedure?
-What oil did you use for initial fill? Afterwards?
-Willing to post pictures of the old/worn/failed parts?

LF06VWJTDI · Apr 11, 2011

I used an OEM cam (BRM) and my break in procedure was simply fire it up and drive it as I normally would for about 30 minutes. The initial fill was done with LubroMoly 5w40 and I'm doing another oil change at the 1K mi. mark from the replacement, using Rotella T6 5w40.
TDIJetta99 kept the cam to take some pictures, perhaps he can post them too. It was bad...bad.

leibuys · Apr 11, 2011

LF06VWJTDI said:
I used an OEM cam (BRM) and my break in procedure was simply fire it up and drive it as I normally would for about 30 minutes. The initial fill was done with LubroMoly 5w40 and I'm doing another oil change at the 1K mi. mark from the replacement, using Rotella T6 5w40.
TDIJetta99 kept the cam to take some pictures, perhaps he can post them too. It was bad...bad.

LFO6, Don't use Rotella T6! This is very good oil and it's inexpensive but the problem is it doesn't meet VW's 505.01 spec which you need to help prevent the cam wear in the BRM. If you were using T6 prior this could be a partial cause of the failure. There are guys in europe claiming to get 250,000 miles (400,000km) on their stock PD cams.

Can you let us know what oil you were using prior to the failure also how many miles on the car when it started to loose power? Also, what did the cam kit cost and how much did TDIJetta99 end up charging?

TDIJetta99 · Apr 11, 2011

Thanks for the kind words... It sounded like a connecting rod was letting go when we were trying to get it off the dolly.. We ended up anchoring the car to another car and pulling the dolly out from underneath it.. The replacement was an OE BRM cam..

The oil that went in initially was the lubro moly 5w40 that came with the kit.. I suggested to run it for 1k or so and change it using either Rotella T6 or Mobil1 TDT.. The Lubro Moly stuff is ok as long as it's the 5w40.. The 5w30 just doesn't seem to work well enough for the PD's..

As far as break-in, other than not letting it idle for hours, my advice is to just drive the car like you would normally drive.. Unless of course it's a track car.. It seems to work fine like that..

I'll post some pictures of the cam and lifters if it's ok with LF06...

TDIJetta99 · Apr 11, 2011

leibuys said:
LFO6, Don't use Rotella T6! This is very good oil and it's inexpensive but the problem is it doesn't meet VW's 505.01 spec which you need to help prevent the cam wear in the BRM. If you were using T6 prior this could be a partial cause of the failure. There are guys in europe claiming to get 250,000 miles (400,000km) on their stock PD cams.

Can you let us know what oil you were using prior to the failure also how many miles on the car when it started to loose power? Also, what did the cam kit cost and how much did TDIJetta99 end up charging?

The T6 AND Mobil 1 consistently return better UOA's than most of the 505.01 approved 5w30's... Go look around in the oil section.. There's nothing wrong with either oil..

He was using 505.01 approved oil, and the cam failed prematurely...

LF06VWJTDI · Apr 11, 2011

Jason, you can post the pictures of the cam. I think it is good documentation.

To leibuys, my TDI has always had 507 spec Longlife III in its engine since I bought it (whatever was in the engine when I drove it off the dealer's lot was no longer there a couple of hours later as changing the oil was the very first thing I did). For the first year of its life, I did oil changes every 5000 miles, then by reading threads upon threads on this forum, I decided to go to 10K miles intervals which I observed religiously.
The cam failed, to the point where I could no longer drive, when the car hit the 132500 mile mark.

TDIJetta charged me standard hourly price a reasonably priced shop would charge, for a 3-4 hours work (he also changed the engine temp thermostat).

Henrick · Apr 11, 2011

So you bought the car new and changed the oil in a few hours?

Also, I have heard that using LongLife II or LongLife III oils in cars without WIV (service interval extentions + on-board monitoring system) is a BIG NO NO (not sure why, though).

LF06VWJTDI · Apr 12, 2011

Henrick said:
So you bought the car new and changed the oil in a few hours?

That's exactly what I did.

Henrick said:
Also, I have heard that using LongLife II or LongLife III oils in cars without WIV (service interval extentions + on-board monitoring system) is a BIG NO NO (not sure why, though).

I have no idea. I was trying to follow VW recommendations on using 504/507 spec. They're obviously wrong.

damlot · Apr 11, 2013

Can you post a link

help, i cant find the link on your website

chittychittybangbang said:
I would DIY since "Cash is tight right now". However, if you're not good at following instructions and have no mechanical experience or aptitude, maybe not because it will cost you more to repair what you mess up. If you do, it'll save some cash and give you some pride in the repair (or frustration and shame if you mess up ) There is a detailed step by step pictorial on my website if you want to DIY.
Prepare, read, reread the instructions, and it should be doable in 1 day if you reuse the timing belt (no need to remove motor mount).

amandanicole · Jul 3, 2014

LF06VWJTDI said:
Well, I went to Port Jervis, NY this past Friday and took my TDI to TDIJetta99's shop. I rented a UHaul truck with a dolly and that's how I towed the car all the way there. It was so bad that when it came time to unload it from the dolly, the car didn't even have the power to roll off the 1.5in. little hump that is on the platform where the tires sit on. Thick clouds of pitch black smoke everywhere.
When TDIJetta99 heard the sound of the engine, he thought the problem was more severe than anticipated, possibly something wrong with the head.
Nevertheless, Jason (TDIJetta99) performed the cam replacement using the kit I bought from Aaron BleachedBora, in a stunningly short (for me at least) 2.5 hours, and when he fired "Teedee" up the engine sounded like it had just come out off the factory. We took it for a ride and it ran beautiful!
The cam Jason replaced was very badly worn out, all lobes were scratched and had deep grooves in them, excavated by God knows what.
But, thanks to the very talented and skillful hands of TDIJetta99, my nightmare is now over, my baby has fully recovered from "open heart surgery" and I can enjoy her for many more thousands of miles.
I wanted to thank Jason again for getting my car back to life. You're definitely going to see me for all extraordinary maintenance, buddy. You truly know your trade and I feel very comfortable in letting you touch my car. Good job, dude.

Bumping for an update. How are things with your Teedee a year later? Stock cam shaft right? going to be ordering ours in the next couple days with the install kit from Kerma and wnated to know if you have been doing anything differently to try and prolong the life of the cam? It is still running great?

kyles s · Aug 13, 2019

mnguy said:
When I did my cam I left the injector pump on and turned the cam 90 degrees and slid it right out, you will need the seal for the other end of the cam.

sorry to bring this up from the dead haha but did you rotate the crank 90 degrees also to avoid smashing the valves into the pistons? or can you simply just rotate cam 90 pop out old put new one in and rotate back 90?

James & Son · Aug 14, 2019

It is not dead, you can always learn from history. But you need a correct procedure and ideally understand why each step is required. The question you are asking is very important. The answer is NO to question one as the cam belt is still attached when you rotate 90 and the answer is no to question two as this is an interference engine. Once you now know these two facts I think you will understand the procedure.

crazyrunner33 · Aug 14, 2019

This video shows how to do the 90 degree method.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3XNNGpdu7w

That's the method I used. I researched the videos and articles from MyTurboDiesel as well as the threads on here. If there was something I wasn't 100 percent sure about, I rewatched the videos and read up on the procedures. Then I rewatched the videos again when I was done to make sure I didn't skip anything.

Growler's checklist is also very handy to have.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=264887

BRM Camshaft replacement: DIY or HSDI?

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