Need help!!!! Rough idle new tdi!!! Help me!!!

Hi guys!
Today I went and bought myself a 2006 Jetta Tdi with 230,000.
I bought it knowing it had some belt ticking/chattering due to the accessory tensioner pulley being on its way out. The drive home was 45 miles.

I bought it at a small used car dealership in Seguin, TX. It is run by a married couple. The lady is the main salesperson and she basically runs the place. I’ve never met the husband.


I asked the seller, would it make it? She said, yes! So about ten miles from home it started running really rough but was not overheating or throwing codes or anything so I limped it home. I believe the turbo might have gone out but I am not sure. Can you guys help??????? Here are two videos of it running, let me know what you think!!!!!
Thanks!

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B0ZUnKWfDC5xanBJbnU4VS1nMjdQQXJpQ2JlTUlGZzFlY3lj

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B0ZUnKWfDC5xRk9yYU5qa1paYUhfWWRRb29FZ256YlRaQkNr

I started doing some research and I think maybe it is a worn camshaft...... I still need some help! It sounds like it in this video:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B0ZUnKWfDC5xci1MYlFQUkFfbnNyY2F2QzQ4dmhIQURLMUN3

A camshaft tends to go bad slowly, not suddenty on a 45 mile drive home. If the turbo had gone there's likely be oil everywhere.

To my ears that sounds like it's only running on 2 or 3 cylinders and there sounds like mechanical interference noises to me.

My interweb guess... the "tensioner pulley being on its way out" was in fact already well on its way out... enough to let the timing slip and then pistons met valves.

Next step would be to pull the timing belt cover and carefully inspect the belt for correct tension, missing teeth, and then for correct alignment of all sprockets at TDC using the correct jigs.

If that's all correct then off comes the valve cover and the cam and lifters get a thorough inspection.

I'd sure not run it any more until you know what went wrong.

EDIT: looks like you were talking about the serpentine belt tensioner being loose, as opposed to the timing belt tensioner. Either way it certainly sounds like there's a timing-related missing cylinder issue... loose timing belt so timing skipped or one or more holed lifters.

Thanks for the quick reply!!!I’m trying to see if seller will take car back...
Any and all advice very welcome!

I think you bought a project car. Belt ticking and chattering is probably just the alternator pulley though, not the tensioner for that belt. I would definitely suspect the cam. Good luck.

I would suspect the cam too, or at least I’m hoping that is the case. I was erring on the side of who runs their timing belt 30k miles over? I am thinking it got done at 200k or so but why would it be so sudden? I test drove it and had the chatter from what I think is the accessory belt tensioner but no other indication of anything else... Then driving home, wham bam thank you ma’am.... Dang it.

When you buy a car from someone’s yard or driveway, figure on spending $1000 additional in parts $2000 if you hire it done. That’s just to play catch-up on stuff that should have been taken care of.

If you have a cam, or transmission or some other major part going then double or in some cases triple those figures.

If I was the seller I would assume you knew there were problems and I wouldn’t take the car back. Of course I wouldn’t sell it without you knowing it was at best a project and at worse a parts car.

Could have been 30k over, could have been 130k over. Lol.

Did the seller have anything to say on when it was done? Even if done recently, it could have been botched and parked, then unloaded on an unsuspecting buyer.

Other than that don't have much to add other than to agree that it sounds like serious mechanical issues. A peek under the cam cover and under the timing belt cover is in order.

As far as taking a peek at the camshaft and lifters for wear, what’s the most obvious sign of wear that can be seen without removing the cam itself? Also, will be checking the timing at the same time, hopefully there is none of that dreaded piston to valve contact. Chatter was coming from accessory tensioner pulley, not timing tensioner pulley from initial inspection.

Also.... if anyone has a set of camshaft specific tools needed for the job, I’d be interested in borrowing them with a deposit or purchasing them if they’re not too dear. PM if you do indeed have a set. I already have the crank lock, cam pin, tensioner pin, basically the tools for the timing belt. Thanks!

Mextdi,

Since speaking on the phone and reading through your post, I have to agree, the cam does not run fine then suddenly die on one cylinder. The most likely suspect is an injector that is not working. VCDS will quickly uncover which is bad. The read should be 'Misfire in cylinder #__. Then, it's a matter of figuring if it's the wiring, a plug-in or the injector itself.

The other thing that is very suspicious is the lack of a CEL. There is no way an engine running like that could avoid the check engine light. It is my thought that the used car salesman did you dirty by disabling the light. Just for kicks and grins, pull the glow plug harness loose and see if the CEL lights. If not, you got taken by a low-life used car dealer.

There are states that not only is the CEL illegal to tamper with, but some states require the light be extinquished, and all codes cleared or repaired before it can be licensed.

No matter how it came in, those guys know it's not supposed to go out that way.

As for the tools, we can supply all the needed parts, guides, technical support and specialized tooling to get it back together.

I hope your luck changes.

GREAT NEWS!!!!!

As you guys can see, I decided to give Frank (Franco6) a call. He is an extremely knowledgeable and likeable guy. Instead of selling me a part and calling it a day he gave me extremely good advice and a great place to begin looking at what is wrong with the car. If you're ever in a pickle, I recommend you call him, he is a godsend.

Now.... Checked for codes with Vagcom, NO CHECK ENGINE LIGHT. I had disconnected the battery so I got codes for MAF sensor, Steering Angle Sensor and that's it. No check engine light. Weird that no check engine light pops up......

I ran the diagnostics he told me to, and he was CORRECT!!!! One of the injectors is not running, for whatever reason. I took some screenshots of the different measured values I got:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1_vzMU2bbzUv3LSN0-r44DgoA-8B8v01R
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1464dBgSADXCYZrtIzCNEeN__P8Zs_cFr

It seems injector #3 is no go. As Frank suggests, it's either the wiring, the injector or the plug. I will have to do my homework because I've never diagnosed an injector before.

I will also pull the glow plug harness and see if the check engine light goes on. If not, definitely terrible hijinks by the dealer who sold me the car.

Thanks and I promise to update you guys!!!!

Under Frank's guidance, I decided to go and check out this whole Check Engine Light thing. I had no idea that it was possible to disable it completely.

He suggested I disconnect the glow plug harness, which should definitely trigger the Check Engine Light.

I shot a small video of me doing it, no Check Engine Light?!?!?!?!?!?!

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B0ZUnKWfDC5xNVZUZ3l2TVJGbTFNX21zVThnTVNxb1ZLLXhz

I bought the car in Texas at a used car dealer 'as is.' Does anyone know if I have grounds for a lawsuit?

Have you contacted the selling dealer yet? Are they aware that you uncovered these serious issues? You've got several steps before jumping to a lawsuit.

I believe Texas has a 3 day period, allowing you to return a car after purchase. Hmm...you bought it on Wednesday, June 5? Tomorrow is day 3!

Hope you work this out.

Contacting Franko6 was a great idea. He, as you know is extremely knowledgeable.

From reading your initial post I was under the impression that you purchased this from a private seller who happened to be a woman. I figured you were on your own.

If Texas has the law mentioned above you could go that route and return the car or you could threaten a return and see if they will will do a partial refund to allow you to fix the car.

Thank you guys, for all the amazing support and help!

In Texas, there is no three day period to return a car.


The first day I contacted the dealership, right away after barely making it home.


The lady I bought the car from at the dealership was concerned and empathetic but said she was going to speak with her husband. The husband was definitely uninterested in helping.


I opened a complaint with the BBB. So far they are sticking to their guns about not doing anything about this. They have responded but in a way that makes it obvious they’re washing their hands clean.


I wanted to give them the opportunity to make things right before things get serious but so far there has been no offer to help with costs or to take the car back. I will begin troubleshooting within the next couple of days because I’m probably screwed and as was stated before, probably bought a project car for ‘well kept’ money.


I’ll update you guys as things progress.
Thanks again!

No, you have a great rust free southern car capable of 50+ miles per gallon. Could these folks have done business in a different and better manner, of course, but at this point that's all water under the bridge.


Troubleshot the problems as you are already doing, fix whatever is wrong and drive it till the wheels fall off.

I've got both sides going on here, a side that says keep the car and fix it and another side that says take these folks to court. I am as of yet undecided.

Here is more troubleshooting I have done.

I took off the cam cover to look at the camshaft and see what I could find in there. Going on Frank's advice I looked at the lobes on the camshaft, out of all the lobes only one had sharp edges. Everything else looked good. I disconnected the wires going to the injectors to make sure they were all seating correctly and were connected. Reconnected it all, cleaned up and put it all back together. The engine is still doing the same thing.

Frank's suggestion now is to start looking at the engine harness itself and diagnose any faults there. I have seen MANY threads with people with damaged, frayed and malfunctioning harnesses. I am going to probably look at the loom underneath the battery since apparently a lot of damage happens there.

Will keep you guys posted!

How much did you pay for the car, if you don't mind sharing?

Sounds like with a bit of work, you may have this car running pretty good. May not be that much of a ripoff after all.

Paid $2500 for it in 'good running' condition. Had me fooled there! Hahaha.

I'm looking at the injector harness, apparently those go very often.
Also looking at the ECU harness but will look into problematic chafing areas for those.
Any other suggestions?

I think the folks on here have set you up pretty well for success. Once you have all the injectors firing, I'd also do the following:
Replace timing belt (and associated parts, the idParts kits are great)
Refresh all fluids and filters (including brake fluid)


The stealership experience sucks, but the lemonade from the lemon is that once you've got everything working you have a car that will last for pretty much forever as long as it's maintained.