Buying a post-fix 2013-2015 TDI?

McGuillicuddy

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I love my mk6 GTI but it's not quite built for the purposes that I'm using it (long highway commute, hauling kids/bikes/hockey equipment). Thinking of trading it in for a used Golf Wagon TDI. Anybody here consider picking up (or already pick up) a post-fix TDI? Any reason they should be avoided? And do they still take well to a tune?
 

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
There are probably dozens of threads already here on this subject. It has been discussed over and over, and everyone's opinions have been expressed over and over.

I do not really have anything directly to add to your new thread, other than to say opinion will vary, and ultimately it is your choice.
 

McGuillicuddy

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There are probably dozens of threads already here on this subject. It has been discussed over and over, and everyone's opinions have been expressed over and over.
I do not really have anything directly to add to your new thread, other than to say opinion will vary, and ultimately it is your choice.
While that is probably true, I was specifically asking in the Ontario forum for an Ontario perspective, from the members whose opinions I trust on the forum.
 

Jetta_Pilot

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Can't tell you about a Golf, but my Passat had the Phase 1 done and not long after I installed a Malone Stage 2. It gives me better performance than my 2002 Jetta did also with a Stage 2. My next project after VW does the Phase 2 is to also do the Malone DSG tune.

My advice is probably to spend the extra and buy the Flashzilla. When I take the car to the dealer for the Pase 2 I will revert the tune back to OEM stock.
 

TQOOOO

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My 2014 starts regen cycle every 200km after the fix, which is a bit annoying.

Also post-fix TDI will have extended transferable warranty that covers all emission components as well as fuel system.
 

Jetta_Pilot

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My 2014 starts regen cycle every 200km after the fix, which is a bit annoying.
Just curious? How do you find it annoying?

I have a ScanGauge II and have some custom gauges to see what happens. The only time it has an effect on me is when I want to shut the engine off and I see exhaust temps of about 1,300 degrees. I then idle the engine until it drops to around 300 deg.
 

TQOOOO

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Just curious? How do you find it annoying?
The only time it has an effect on me is when I want to shut the engine off and I see exhaust temps of about 1,300 degrees.
That is exactly what annoys me. I dont have time to idle my car until regen stops.
 

paperthin

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I turned in my 2009 jetta tdi and bought a 2015 A3 tdi with the phase 1 done. I don't notice a single thing.
 

McGuillicuddy

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Let's not be petty now. I can certainly understand not wanting to sit there idling for 2-3 minutes when you get home. Especially if you back into the garage which I tend to do. Want to be able to breathe in there when you get out.
 
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IndigoBlueWagon

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The issue I have is I often don't discover that I'm in a regen until after I shut the car down.
 

McGuillicuddy

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Based on my reading it seems like the following is true:

-2015 TDIs seem to take well to the fix. No major problems
-2009-14 seem to have the additional issue of the regeneration frequency, but otherwise no major concerns. Some take a large fuel economy hit but it is generally understood that there was an underlying issue and that the fix only exposed a pre-existing condition but did not cause it (not sure if that makes a difference or not in the end).
-DSG is impacted more than manuals because of the change to shift points, and some people have more serious DSG issues after the fix. Not an issue for me as I will only buy a manual.
-Long term impact of fix on reliability are unknown.

Seem about right?
 
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imo000

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That is exactly what annoys me. I dont have time to idle my car until regen stops.
You don't have to sit an idle the engine, I wouldn't. VW doesn't want you to either so just don't worry about and don't over think it like some people here do.
 

clacker

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Here is my insight, having had a 2014 wagon and now a 2015. The 2014 had the first pre scandal reflash for emissions, it was a terrible tune that went from one regen per tank to 4 or 5. Regens are terrible, the engine runs extremely hot and the more heat cycles the sooner things like turbos die. I was seeing temps of 1400-1500, it also did many mini regen events inbetween and the throttle would be laggy like a sudden head wind or a/c compressor kicking in, it was not an enjoyable car to drive (dsg). The 2015 only hits 1250 on gens so far, not near as hot.
Now with the 2015 and the first stage fix, the DEF really helps. No mini regens ever and generally one full event per tank, fuel economy is much better by 5-10%. Running up to the cottage last weekend with the car loaded (3 adults, 2 kids plug luggage area full to the roof) Kemptville to Tremblant which is not a flat route was 4.5L/100 going up and 4.2 return, the 2014 never did below 5 on that route. It would hit 4 going to Quebec city but that is really flat and the car was empty and I tried really hard. The extended emissions warranty is better on the 2015 by a good amount. Having to add exhaust fluid vs the fuel savings is pretty even but the driving experience is much better in the 2015, plus the level of electronics and features is light years ahead even the base trendline model. 2015 can run 15" tires which cost less and are available in narrower sizes for snows.
The only downside with the 2015, it follows truck ruts really bad (on poor Quebec autoroutes), really really bad like the road is slippery but not. If it was slippery I imagine it would slalom down the ruts pretty easily, not sure why yet if alignment is the issue or the rear torsion beam-it is not tires as both 2015's we got do it and each car has different summer and winter tire brands.
I am very pleased with the 2015, very very pleased. Plugging in the Vag-Com there are over 700 features that can coded to your liking...all in german of course!
 
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2.2TDI

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How much driving do you do? post fix tdi's are REALLY expensive, they're not even worth it in my opinion. The tdi's attract a heftier price tag to begin with, and now with the buyback and emissions fix, the price tags are insane... I bought a 2015 golf 1.8 tsi comfortline, 45000km with most of the options equipped, and the same tdi was going for 4000-5000 more then the tsi... There was absolutely zero chance I was going to pay that, given that I drive 15000-20000km a year these days. I wanted one really badly as I love tdi's but there was no justification for getting one other then "I just want a diesel"

Just a quick search... two tdis and one tsi in comfortline trim with similar specs... both tdis do have nav but one of them doesn't even have climatronic or auto headlights, yet both are 5000 to 6000 more!

http://www.autotrader.ca/a/volkswag...owCpo&ursrc=pl&urp=2&urm=8&pc=M9C 5E6&sprx=-2

http://www.autotrader.ca/a/volkswag...wCpo&ursrc=hl&orup=8_15_52&pc=M9C 5E6&sprx=-2

http://www.autotrader.ca/a/volkswag...owCpo&ursrc=pl&urp=1&urm=8&pc=M9C 5E6&sprx=-2

and these aren't even wagons... those are even more

some quick math. Lets say you do 40000km. At an average of 6L/100KM for the tdi and 8L/100km for the tsi, you're looking at 2880 dollars for diesel a year and 3840 for gas a year based on an average of 1.20 per liter for both fuels.... so you're saving roughly 1000 in fuel costs a year, but it'll take you 5-6 years just in fuel savings to negate the cost due to higher purchase price...
 
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clacker

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It will not be easy to find a reasonably priced tdi wagon, but then the 2015's were put back on sale last April they were cheap to buy ($6000-8000 discount depending on trim level). Ours were $22k (trendline, highline was $28k) plus fees and taxes for a new car that sat 2 years. Yes, used ones are way above those prices at the moment, but they are not really selling either same ones for sale locally on kijiji now for months and months.
We had a loaner at one point over the new car delivery, a TSI Golf automatic. You cannot compare them, the regular auto is such a "rental" car experience vs the DSG, fuel economy was not great (showing 10L) but it was brand new with 500kms. The 1.8T was also no wonder, did not feel much different from a 1.8t from 20 years ago, however a tdi is much changed in those 20 years. I just drove it home and back 140kms and did not "drive it" but was more interested in seeing the fuel economy possibility which disappointed...it had zero engine braking just like a 90's GM product.
 

2.2TDI

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New is a different story, those are long gone...

As for the 1.8t, I love it... Smooth and refined, fun to drive and very tuneable. I have a manual and my fuel economy is averaging 8.7L/100km in cold weather with 80% city driving... But I did do this the other night in it...



I also calibrated the MFD to show real fuel economy and not the optimistic figures
 

Savageman69

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New is a different story, those are long gone...

As for the 1.8t, I love it... Smooth and refined, fun to drive and very tuneable. I have a manual and my fuel economy is averaging 8.7L/100km in cold weather with 80% city driving... But I did do this the other night in it...



I also calibrated the MFD to show real fuel economy and not the optimistic figures
as much as i think the gas cars are coming along way i still dont think 8.7 would cut it for me in a car any more....my mk6 jetta could get below 5 every tank and pulled like a train stage 3.5.

I dunno i can get below 7L/100 in my auto over 5000lb touareg. That again aint no slouch. I get that the cost difference is huge now which sucks...but i guess im just die hard tdi
 

2.2TDI

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as much as i think the gas cars are coming along way i still dont think 8.7 would cut it for me in a car any more....my mk6 jetta could get below 5 every tank and pulled like a train stage 3.5.
I dunno i can get below 7L/100 in my auto over 5000lb touareg. That again aint no slouch. I get that the cost difference is huge now which sucks...but i guess im just die hard tdi
Yea I get that but like I said and you said, it's the cost differential that kills the tdi... If it was a 1000 or 2000 dollar difference then I would've got the tdi, but 5000-6000? No thanks, as much as I love tdis too
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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That's really poor FE for a 1.8L engine in a relatively small car. However, VW's gasoline engines have never really delivered good FE.

I think if I were looking for a gasoline powered car it wouldn't be a VW.
 

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
Yeah, there is no real reason for Volkswagen to even push a high MPG car with a gasoline engine. And for anyone that thinks the "smaller" gassers are just as good, know that VAG also has smaller diesels that will shatter that.

But, they are all forbidden now. And VAG still cannot figure out how to make a water pump for the EA888 engine.
 

2.2TDI

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Lol guys relax I'm not bashing tdis but I just proved they make absolutely no sense due to the high variance in price between a gas and a diesel... And 8.7 is good for city driving in the cold temps we had here...

You can pay super premium and enjoy your diesels, I'll take that 5000-6000 and go on a couple nice vacations :)
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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2.2TDI, your cost differential numbers don't bear out in the US. Glancing at Autotrader it looks like 2015 Golf TDIs are about $1,000 more than a comparable 1.8T. I looked at automatics, since there are very few manual TDIs available, especially in the base version, which is the only trim level where a 1.8T could be had with a manual (in the US). History shows that TDIs are going to have higher resale value than a comparable gasoline TDI, so there may not be any actual price premium, other than tying up the original value difference for the ownership term.

My '15 GSW is showing about 50% better FE than your 1.8T, and I drive it normally. To summarize, you can buy a TDI for little or no greater total ownership cost than a 1.8T and get significantly better FE to boot. Seems like an easy choice, even if you don't drive a lot of miles.
 

2.2TDI

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Maybe that's the case in the US, but it certainly isn't in Canada and this is the Ontario forum...

Edit: indeed the US has much cheaper tdis, but like i said, this is the Ontario forum, and unless OP goes to the states to pick up a car the tdi still makes no sense...
 
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IndigoBlueWagon

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I just looked on Autotrader.ca. Wow, you're not kidding. Prices here have come down since the fixed cars started to appear in quantity, maybe the same will happen in Canada.
 

2.2TDI

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Yea I wish I was kidding... :(

After looking on US autotrader, I'm left a little sour that the you guys south of the border always get such better deals on cars, no matter make or model... 12000 US for a tdi with 30000 miles? That's insane!!
 

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
And that is why there has been a cottage industry set up to import Canadian spec F150s to the US. My boss buys a half dozen a year. Because he is able to buy them for 70 cents on the dollar of what they would be here.

Granted, they are usually rust buckets, but he doesn't care. They get a US-spec cluster installed in them, then placed in the auction lot.
 

Johhny04

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And that is why there has been a cottage industry set up to import Canadian spec F150s to the US. My boss buys a half dozen a year. Because he is able to buy them for 70 cents on the dollar of what they would be here.

Granted, they are usually rust buckets, but he doesn't care. They get a US-spec cluster installed in them, then placed in the auction lot.
That's been happening for over 12 months now (maybe even longer), to the point where Ohio state put a stop to it, due to the large influx of CDN cars coming into their auctions. I know of a few dealers here in Ontario that have been doing it with large amounts of profit.
 

McGuillicuddy

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How much driving do you do? post fix tdi's are REALLY expensive, they're not even worth it in my opinion. The tdi's attract a heftier price tag to begin with, and now with the buyback and emissions fix, the price tags are insane... I bought a 2015 golf 1.8 tsi comfortline, 45000km with most of the options equipped, and the same tdi was going for 4000-5000 more then the tsi... There was absolutely zero chance I was going to pay that, given that I drive 15000-20000km a year these days. I wanted one really badly as I love tdi's but there was no justification for getting one other then "I just want a diesel"

Just a quick search... two tdis and one tsi in comfortline trim with similar specs... both tdis do have nav but one of them doesn't even have climatronic or auto headlights, yet both are 5000 to 6000 more!

http://www.autotrader.ca/a/volkswag...owCpo&ursrc=pl&urp=2&urm=8&pc=M9C 5E6&sprx=-2

http://www.autotrader.ca/a/volkswag...wCpo&ursrc=hl&orup=8_15_52&pc=M9C 5E6&sprx=-2

http://www.autotrader.ca/a/volkswag...owCpo&ursrc=pl&urp=1&urm=8&pc=M9C 5E6&sprx=-2

and these aren't even wagons... those are even more

some quick math. Lets say you do 40000km. At an average of 6L/100KM for the tdi and 8L/100km for the tsi, you're looking at 2880 dollars for diesel a year and 3840 for gas a year based on an average of 1.20 per liter for both fuels.... so you're saving roughly 1000 in fuel costs a year, but it'll take you 5-6 years just in fuel savings to negate the cost due to higher purchase price...
I do about 33K per year, pretty much all highway. You're right about the 2015 fixed TDIs though. Stupid expensive. Seems the 12-14 TDIs are much less. Although seems like they have more undesirable effects from the fix which may be why.
 
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