Hard Start / No Start - Is your intercooler frozen? Check Here!

KraftwerkB6

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2010
Location
Lexington Ky
TDI
2010 JSW
Depending on the temp outside, if its parked inside or outside over night and how long I let it warm up all depends on if it is close or at operating temp the time I go to work.
Maybe I am over estimating my warm up time. I do let it warm up every morning being that its cold as balls outside right now. Maybe not 20 min every single morning, more like 10-15min on a regular basis. Do I think its going to hurt anything? No not really, Yes our engines are super efficient and should be driven right away because making the engine work will heat it up faster. But if some thing breaks I will just have to fix it. Does my 10 min idle time do anything really? prob not, but I sleep fine at night.

And honestly I do not have the daily commute like some/most people on here, I have some bumper to bumper driving but it takes me 10 min to get to the shop, maybe 20 if its a bad morning/bad weather or an accident. I usually fill up every 2 weeks maybe 2.5 if I dont drive that much on the weekends.
But the JSW loves the long country drives and mini road trips once and a while.

Next time I fill up I will track my warm up/daily drive fuel economy and will let you know.
 
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KraftwerkB6

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2010
Location
Lexington Ky
TDI
2010 JSW
I am still planning on checking today after work, and get some pics.
I relized this morning I should not have anything in my system nor a frost like some of you are having because its not getting nearly as cold as it is where some have posted on here that are having the issue.
I'll still check since it will be fun and somthing to do, but i am not expecting to see anything or have this issue really.
 

devilyellow

Active member
Joined
Feb 5, 2010
Location
Milwaukee, WI
TDI
MkVI JSW, Touareg TDI V6
Yesterday my 2010 JSW w/ 14.5k on the dial acted like it was totally down on power. The only thing I did differently is not let it warm up as long as I normally do before taking off. I noticed when I hit the highway something was wrong, and when climbing a long steep hill it slowed down to 20mph (on the freeway, flashers on in the shoulder). Took it straight to the dealer, they called today saying the IC was full of water. I'm just glad the motor didn't blow. I wasn't able to rev it above 2,000RPM and she was might not have been sucking enough to get much water up to the motor.
 

KraftwerkB6

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2010
Location
Lexington Ky
TDI
2010 JSW
First we take off the belly pan.


Screws:


Belly pan off:


Intercooler Pipe :


Pipe:


Rubber pipe off plastic pipe:


Inside plastic pipe, not really anything there besides a little oil:


Some oil:


Intercooler housing pipe:


Rubber end of rubber pipe from intercooler to plastic pipe:
 

KraftwerkB6

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2010
Location
Lexington Ky
TDI
2010 JSW
Metal end of rubber pipe which connects to intercooler housing end:


This is where I found the most oil. This is not alarming to me at all since almost every 1.8T I have ever seen had same if not more amount of oil. Plus this is a lower/est area in the intercooler setup/PCV setup. Possible catch can would be nice but I am not too worried about this.
Like I said most people with this problem seem to be in a very colder climate then where I am in the South. So maybe someone could take some pics of theirs and we can compare.


btw extra pics where someone had a thread about noise from under the car, this is the lower control arm bushing i was talking about.




CC, Passat, and ?? all have aluminum lower control arms but not JSW.
 

DHall

Active member
Joined
Oct 30, 2009
Location
Connecticut
TDI
2010 Jetta TDI
Did you take apart the passenger side hose as well? That is where you will find the water, oil, and "Snot"

From your pictures it looks like you only removed the inlet/drivers side.
 

El Dobro

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 21, 2006
Location
NJ
TDI
2017 Bolt EV Premier, 2023 Bolt EUV Premier
Yep, I was just going to say that it's the passenger side that's the big problem.
 

GraniteRooster

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2010
Location
Upper Valley NH
TDI
'12 JSW 6MT
Yesterday my 2010 JSW w/ 14.5k on the dial acted like it was totally down on power. The only thing I did differently is not let it warm up as long as I normally do before taking off. I noticed when I hit the highway something was wrong, and when climbing a long steep hill it slowed down to 20mph (on the freeway, flashers on in the shoulder). Took it straight to the dealer, they called today saying the IC was full of water. I'm just glad the motor didn't blow. I wasn't able to rev it above 2,000RPM and she was might not have been sucking enough to get much water up to the motor.
Thanks for posting. Did your car throw any Check Engine Lights or Messages? Do you know the fault codes? What was the outside temp when this occurred? Time of day?
 
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jjblbi

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2000
Location
lbi, nj
TDI
2014 Passat SEL TDI
Has anyone having the "water in the intercooler issue" ever taken intercooler temps with a non contact thermometer after a good run? Might be interesting to see.

As for warm-ups I am not a proponent...I give it a minute at most in the coldest temps I see-single digits F. My '06 A5 jetta has an electric heater stock from the factory which is pretty effective. Temp set to hottest, recirc button pushed and fan on activates it. Warm air fairly quickly in the cabin. I keep my rpms below 2000 and speed max about 60 mph indicated for the 5-10 minutes I need to get up to temp--190F.
 

devilyellow

Active member
Joined
Feb 5, 2010
Location
Milwaukee, WI
TDI
MkVI JSW, Touareg TDI V6
Thanks for posting. Did your car throw any Check Engine Lights or Messages? Do you know the fault codes? What was the outside temp when this occurred? Time of day?
It was warmer like 30* which is why I didnt let it sit and warm up like I would if it was below freezing. On my way home from work at 3PM, no error messages or CEL's. Maybe I caught it early?
 

GraniteRooster

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2010
Location
Upper Valley NH
TDI
'12 JSW 6MT
It was warmer like 30* which is why I didnt let it sit and warm up like I would if it was below freezing. On my way home from work at 3PM, no error messages or CEL's. Maybe I caught it early?
WeatherChannel.com shows that Milwaukee did not get above 25* for 7+ days prior to the afternoon that your car had a problem. And before the long cold spell, you had a big storm that dropped a bunch of snow and moisture and then froze up. I wonder if you had ice accumulated in the IC and cold-side pressure hose, which then melted a little and refroze on the warm afternoon, enough to more significantly block the intake and cause your problem.

I can't believe the car didn't throw a code being that far down on power - did the dealer scan for codes that don;t show up as a CEL on the dash?
 

GraniteRooster

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2010
Location
Upper Valley NH
TDI
'12 JSW 6MT
As a side note - when a cylinder has a little bit of water in it, the remaining vapor is squeezed to a higher compression ratio than if no water were present. The higher compression ratio requires increased torque to crank the engine, which explains the slow/no crank experiences many have shared here. In the extreme case, there is enough water to completely fill the cylinder at or before TDC, which is when permanent damage starts to occur.
 
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Conan

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2010
Location
Denver
TDI
2003 GLS TDI
What do you guys think of putting a water detector in the IC hose? You could just tap a couple of screws into the bottom of the hose, and run a circuit to a light mounted on the dash. When you get in the car in the morning, in your nice, warm garage, an LED would alert you to the fact that there is enough water/ gunk in the IC hose to conduct electricity. I doubt that oil-emulship-babypoop-gunk is a real good conductor, but if it has enough water in it to cause a hydrolock, I'd sure want to know about it, without having to drop the hose frequently to check for water.

I'm new to this whole VW thing, and I don't know the politics of their warranty policy yet. If your car had an obvious mod (continuity tester) in the area of the cause of a failure, would they just void your warranty?
 

devilyellow

Active member
Joined
Feb 5, 2010
Location
Milwaukee, WI
TDI
MkVI JSW, Touareg TDI V6
WeatherChannel.com shows that Milwaukee did not get above 25* for 7+ days prior to the afternoon that your car had a problem. And before the long cold spell, you had a big storm that dropped a bunch of snow and moisture and then froze up. I wonder if you had ice accumulated in the IC and cold-side pressure hose, which then melted a little and refroze on the warm afternoon, enough to more significantly block the intake and cause your problem.

I can't believe the car didn't throw a code being that far down on power - did the dealer scan for codes that don;t show up as a CEL on the dash?
If it snows real bad I drive the Touareg. Also the car stays inside the garage, and it was inside the garage all weekend (not insulated or heated). I'll ask about any codes but nothing popped up.

Weird thing is that it idled and started perfectly, I honestly thought it was fuel pressure related and was a clogged fuel filter.
 

KraftwerkB6

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2010
Location
Lexington Ky
TDI
2010 JSW
Did you take apart the passenger side hose as well? That is where you will find the water, oil, and "Snot"

From your pictures it looks like you only removed the inlet/drivers side.

Haha no I did not, I looked right at it and was thinking about doing it but then stopped and went home. I can take it off tomorrow and see what comes out.
It just seems nuts that further north there are more issues but it is a lot colder.
 

740GLE

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Location
NH
TDI
2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,
Yesterday after work, I went to start mine, GP cycled no problem, cranked it over, it caught like normal, ran for 2 seconds, stumbled and died, tried again, this time couldn't get it to catch and run, 4th time it was able to stumble to life and ran rough for 5 seconds, then ran like normal. No MIL no CEL.

Kicker, this evening was the first time in about a week or two temps were above freezing at 35. Last run was for 7 miles for 15 min, temps came up to 190. Pervious run was for 45-60 min running around town temps at 28 and spitting snow.

I called Baranger VW, in Rodchester NH, will be taking it there this afternoon to see if and DTC are stored, and try and convince them to document this case and crack open the intercooler. From talking to them on the phone, sounds like they won't do anything without a code that they could bill warranty. I had a previous case like this documented with them last Feb, but nothing was done as no code was stored.

Yeah I could crack it open myself and inspect/clean, but I'd like to put pressure on VWoA on this. If anyone has any paperwork from the dealer they could fax me shoot me a PM and I'd be very happy.
 

Carphuntin_god

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2001
Location
On the Dark Side
TDI
2011 Golf 2-door 6-speed
K.... I have a dumb thought. with all the product providers out there, wonder if someone could make a clear piece of pipe to replace the stock ic pipe. if not perfectly clear... just something if you got a bright enough light on it, you could see inside.
 

740GLE

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Location
NH
TDI
2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,
it'd probably be coated with fine mist within a few 100 miles and look black as stock.
 

GraniteRooster

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2010
Location
Upper Valley NH
TDI
'12 JSW 6MT
Yesterday after work, I went to start mine, GP cycled no problem, cranked it over, it caught like normal, ran for 2 seconds, stumbled and died, tried again, this time couldn't get it to catch and run, 4th time it was able to stumble to life and ran rough for 5 seconds, then ran like normal. No MIL no CEL.

Kicker, this evening was the first time in about a week or two temps were above freezing at 35. Last run was for 7 miles for 15 min, temps came up to 190. Pervious run was for 45-60 min running around town temps at 28 and spitting snow.

I called Baranger VW, in Rochester NH, will be taking it there this afternoon to see if and DTC are stored, and try and convince them to document this case and crack open the intercooler. From talking to them on the phone, sounds like they won't do anything without a code that they could bill warranty. I had a previous case like this documented with them last Feb, but nothing was done as no code was stored.

Yeah I could crack it open myself and inspect/clean, but I'd like to put pressure on VWoA on this. If anyone has any paperwork from the dealer they could fax me shoot me a PM and I'd be very happy.
Dude, you gotta be kidding me. Another one??!! Right here in NH? We need to talk. PM Sent.
 

740GLE

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Location
NH
TDI
2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,
Got the paperwork, will keep you posted what we find in the IC.
 

KraftwerkB6

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2010
Location
Lexington Ky
TDI
2010 JSW
Ill bring mine in and check the pass side intercooler pipe, i hope there is some thing at least in there besides some oil.
 

El Dobro

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 21, 2006
Location
NJ
TDI
2017 Bolt EV Premier, 2023 Bolt EUV Premier
Ill bring mine in and check the pass side intercooler pipe, i hope there is some thing at least in there besides some oil.
The check I just did was the 4th time for my car and there was goop in there every time.
 

RPS99SHO

Veteran Member
Joined
May 13, 2010
Location
Frederick, MD
TDI
2010 Golf TDI
My car is in for the 20k service as we speak. The service advisor agreed to have the tech check for water in the intercooler. The SA had heard of this issue.


~ Roman

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Growler

Got Soot Vendor
Joined
Nov 24, 2003
Location
Millersport, Ohio
TDI
Schmutz, 2015 Golf Sportwagen DSG & Schnurren, 2001 Golf GL 2 door 5M
If it were me I would poke a hole in the lower intercooler connection that is small enough to not be a huge boost leak, but big enough to pass some fluid under boost. but thats just me.
 

RPS99SHO

Veteran Member
Joined
May 13, 2010
Location
Frederick, MD
TDI
2010 Golf TDI
Just got back from the service. There was no ice or water buildup in my intercooler, just the usual gooky crap. Nothing out of the ordinary. Also no metal in the fuel filter. Sweet.


~ Roman

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

HeAvYfUeL

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2005
Location
Gatineau,CAN
TDI
2009, Golf Variant, DSG
If it were me I would poke a hole in the lower intercooler connection that is small enough to not be a huge boost leak, but big enough to pass some fluid under boost. but thats just me.
That's the same as with the big marine diesel engines I used to work on. The air intake collector has a small drain pipe on the lowest point, always blowing a little air. In case you are in very humid air with a too low air inlet temperature you will see water mist blowing from the pipe.

On of the reasons to prevent hydro locking a diesel engine is to start a marine diesel for a few revolutions on air with the indicator cocks open to blow of any possible (cooling)water that might have leaked into the cylinder during stand-still.
 

nhdoc

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2009
Location
Nashua, NH
TDI
'01 GLS NB TDI 5 Speed
Personally I don't see why "oily snot" is normal at all. The intake air is supposed to be clean. They shouldn't be mixing EGR with it if that is the source and I would bet if they are sending EGR through the intercooler it is the source of 90% of the humidity too.

The only other source of oil would be what little sneaks past the turbo seals, but given how little oil these motors consume I would bet that is not the source of the stuff we're seeing.

Can anyone pinpoint the exact point of entry of EGR into the fresh air intake?
 

El Dobro

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 21, 2006
Location
NJ
TDI
2017 Bolt EV Premier, 2023 Bolt EUV Premier
Does anyone know where the CCV feeds into the intake?
 
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