2004 BEW turbo dead - replacement suggestions

Hello TDIClub friends,

Last week I experienced the dreaded BEW turbo pop and whine, after pulling my turbo I found what I pretty much expected, turbo was “missing” some necessary parts inside lol. I called VW and they want $1,700 for a replacement KP39 stock turbo. I was able to find a Borg Werner for $869 from KermaTDI, but am also considering the VNT-17 not because I want more performance (car currently has Malone Stage 1 tune and EGR delete) but because of what sounds like added reliability long term and it’s basically the same price as the KP39. The car only has 134,000 miles and I’d like to put many many more on it. I did also consider a turbo delete but I’ve only read of one person on here actually having okay luck with performance on a NA PD TDI.

Wondering if anyone has a Malone Stage 1 tune with the VNT-17 who could comment on the potential turbo lag I should expect without more tuning. Or if anyone has actually had decent (near stock without Stage 1 tune) performance from a Naturally Aspirated engine. Or if anyone knows of a good place to order the VNT-17 from. I also found a rebuild option that someone on this forum had used for $350 but it only comes with a 1 year warranty and 2 rebuilds would be almost the same cost as the VNT-17 upgrade. I hate having downtime with this car so I generally prefer to spend a bit more and have a more permanent fix.

Thanks in advance for the advice!
Corey

I have a VNT-17 with a stage 4 tune and it’s great.

I’ve also tried running a stage 1.5 tune and it was laggy. Didn’t like it at all.

It also seems to work reasonably well with a stock tune.

To use a stage 4 tune you need a 3 bar MAP sensor, which is only about $40and easy to replace. Worth it.

Even if you don’t use the power, the drivability of the stage 4 tune is great. This makes sense as that turbo was intended to go in the European 150HP version of that car. It just seems to work well for that sort of power level.

cheapest option is whats called a "CHAR" or core. you can usually get them for about $400 give or take, its a direct swap out of everything but the hot and cold compressor housings. but if the grande you had chewed them up then a full new turbo is the only option.
As far as going back with stock, i would if you can get a good deal on one and VW is going to rip you off big time. You should be able to find OEM parts online for a lot less, probably about $1,200 ish. or much less. i don't shop for those turbos so....

As far as the 17 goes, there are better upgrade options. the 17 is a really strong tried and true turbo, don't get me wrong but tech has evolved in the last 20 years and the 17/22 is nearly extinct that its not being made now that some of the other turbos in the 16** generations are on the market.

i would not even consider doing a turbo delete. if you do, enjoy 15mpg and not being able to pass local inspections or road laws and pissing everyone off from the smoke. also nearly no power lol.

Only way i would go with the Borg Werner is that its from Kerma and they have a good name sooo....... probably fine. and for the price, its probably your best option.

stage 4???? seems fun but with out bigger nozzles its a waste IMO.

Thanks for the reply Mike. I guess I should expect quite the turbo lag with the stage 1 tune and the VNT-17 then also. At least I know there isn’t much cost left after this to get rid of the lag and upgrade as far as I might want. Really appreciate the advice and info!

Mike_04GolfTDI said:

I have a VNT-17 with a stage 4 tune and it’s great.

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Does this setup create exhaust smoke? Sounds like a fun option but I don’t want to roll coal.

sriracha said:

Does this setup create exhaust smoke? Sounds like a fun option but I don’t want to roll coal.

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It can. It all depends how much power you use.

It’s entirely possible to drive without making smoke. You never need to use full throttle with a stage 4 tune.

Mongler - Can you provide a little more detail on the "16** generations". I'd be curious to at least look into this to have some more options to consider other than just the KP39 or VNT-17.

Thank you!

You are only 20,000 miles ahead of me with yours, and I do want the turbo done in a time and place of my choosing. Having a hard time not just dropping the $$ on a GTD1752VRK. I have a VNT17 running in what is now my son's car and I have no issue with its lag. No tune there either('Dad, it will just break sooner').
cheers,
Douglas

Thanks Douglas! I found a few other posts on this site saying that the lag isn't too bad on the VNT-17, so I'm definitely leaning that way. Definitely not fun when it happens not in a time and place of your choosing!

For anyone who has done the VNT-17, has the reclocking been needed, and if so, is the process pretty straightforward? I found it documented online and it doesn't look too terrible.

Re-clock was easy, but I had the whole housing off, and a VNT15 nipple welded on its place so it could run w/o mods or extry pieces on an ALH.
cheers,
Douglas

Does anyone have an idea of how long I should expect it to take to remove the old KP39 turbo and replace with the VNT17? Just looking for a rough guess.

Thanks!
Corey

3.5hr is the BEW turbo labor time.

I would vote for the "drop in" Garrett replacement (you will need an EGR pipe to make it work with the stock EGR system). They work great, you will also want to do a Basic Settings on the VNT too. I tune will really wake them up. Also a good time to closely examine the EGR system for any breakage or missing stuff, as well as take apart and clean the intake manifold.

Also, plan for possibly needing to replace the turbo oil feed pipe. You are in the rust belt, so any fasteners could turn into a battle due to that.

Oilhammer,

Thanks a bunch for your reply! I already have the EGR system deleted (due to a broken EGR cooler a few months back), so I'm assuming I shouldn't have any issues with that. I did order the new stainless steel braided oil feed line, along with the VNT-17 turbo from Cascade German (Formerly Bora Parts). Hoping this is the "Drop in" replacement you are referring to that won't require the reclocking procedure.
https://www.cascadegerman.com/product/7210215002s/?attribute_install-kit=Uber+(+$90)

Can you explain a bit what you mean by "Do a Basic Settings" on the VNT? Planning to stick with my Malone Stage 1 for the short term, but considering further upgrades in the future depending on the turbo lag.

With VCDS go to Basic Settings, there will be a pull down menu. Just do it with the engine at idle while warm.

If you have already deleted the EGR and I assume the [troublesome] EGR cooler, you may also want to look into a PD130 intake manifold. It is a better flowing one-piece type, so you can get rid of that silly two-piece two-path one. Granted you'll still have the split intake ports in the head, but the flow TO the head will be improved.

Easily one of the best driving TDIs ever, for all around power, driveability, economy, etc. is a BEW+manual with a Garrett VNT17, EGR delete, PD130 intake, and a mild tune. Peppy, no smoke unless you really stand on it for a while, as good or better MPG than stock, and a nice non-laggy non-peaky power curve that is ready to go from right off idle all the way to 4k. It is a great combination.

Thanks for the extra time and advice oilhammer. I will definitely look into the PD130 intake manifold. Glad to hear that the combination I'm putting together here is a tried and true, reliable setup!

Thanks!
Corey

Where does one obtain a PD130 intake?

The last one I bought I found on eBay. Often they are used, but it is just a chunk of cast/machined aluminum, so used is perfectly fine.

There are PD150 ones too, I am not sure what the difference is.

For those of us in CA, is it possible to upgrade to the PD130/150 intake manifold and still have a visually functioning EGR, in order to remain SMOG compliant? Or does this upgrade require the EGR to be deleted?

It requires a delete. There is no gaping hole in the front of the manifold for the EGR valve to fit.

Speak of the devil:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=504930

Notice the EGR bolted to the inlet (like an ALH) but the manifold itself is just a big giant open channel.

Just wanted to post a final follow up to this. Got the VNT-17 installed yesterday, and I couldn't be happier with the upgrade. No noticeable turbo lag at all with the Malone Stage 1 tune and the VNT-17, reclocking was not necessary for the 2004 BEW, car runs and drives awesome!
Thanks to everyone who provided input on this!

Great! Thanks for following up!

Sounds like a nice upgrade to do when the time comes.

sriracha said:

Sounds like a nice upgrade to do when the time comes.

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It is, I highly recommend it. The, iirc, BRM manifold, is even better.
Malone used to have a comparitive test of the various intakes. More air
to the engine. I got one for my ALH from Darkside with their 50mm racepipe.