$300 350,000 mile tdi hydrolocked???

15-40 will be diesel rated, but not synthetic. "good enough" for testing/flushing, but if it's very cold, will be as thick as molasses! Rotella T6 is cheap enough that it'd be my choice.
As far as pictures - uploading them to the tdiclub server gives you some options for image size, using thumbnail, etc., but storage space is limited. I have to resize everything before uploading since the file size is huge coming from an iphone.

I have used imgur previously and haven't had an image size problem. Did you use the get "get share links" button and select "BBCode (Forums)"?

I would use Rotalla T6 (5w40), as that's one of the better options for the ALH engine on an ongoing basis in that it's available nearly anywhere and at a reasonable price. Most WallyWorlds carry it as well, which is even better.

15w40 NAPA Diesel won't hurt it in the short term but I have no idea if it has any sort of known history in this engine in terms of being ok; the Rotella has a crazy-long history of use without trouble (my vehicle has run it since it was brand new, for example) and there are examples here on the forum that have gone 500k miles on it.

Dropping in for an update. I removed all air piping and thoroughly cleaned everything. I also found that the EGR delete only included the valve and not the cooler, so I removed the cooler and made all necessary hose adaptations. I left the pipe feeding the intercooler disconnected for monitoring and I replaced the oil and filter. I used Delo 5-40 because I had already picked it up at Walmart due to not having time to get to the local Napa. I also replaced all of the injector return hoses because they were deteriorated pretty badly and I could hear them 'hissing' when I was pulling vacuum with the Might-Vac to prime the IP the other day. I think that's all that I had done since my last post.

Oh...and I did install a small catch can. I think it's too small, and I'll likely replace it later, but I will use it to see how much is passing through the valve cover.

I started the car, and it started faster than any of my gassers ever thought of. I was impressed...I mean key turned and 'snap', it was running. It idles great, but has a random 'stumble' that causes the engine to rock in the engine bay. Dog bone looks good, so it must just be a substantial miss that causes it to rock pretty hard. I ran the car for an hour. The temp got up to 178 and stayed there. I think that toward the very end, the thermostat 'may' have started to open because the lower radiator hose only barely, maybe started to warm up a tiny bit.

Here is what I have come up with so far. From cold start to temps of about 150f, the charged air(pre intercooler) is very clear and has no odd smells. After maybe 15 minutes or a little more, I start to see some 'foggy' vapor coming from the charge pipe and I can also see it if I remove the oil fill cap. Once the engine is up to temperature, the vapor is heavier, and I see an oily drip from the charge pipe about every 10 seconds +/- a second or two. When the engine does its 'stumble' that I mentioned earlier, the puff of vapor is greater. I do not notice any bubbling in the overflow or anything, but there is definite blowby in the upper end.

I'm wondering if it could be a stuck ring/rings. I will drain the catch can tomorrow to see what is in it. There's no level indicator on it. I'm not seeing any hints or indications of it trying to hydrolock in any way at this point, so it may have been self-induced by the POs friend...I don't know. Maybe the intercooler got too full of oil and pulled it up, but I don't think the car had a runaway, so I'm just not sure if that happened or not.

The car runs pretty darn well, despite the occasional stumble thing it does, and I'm getting anxious to drive it down the road, just to see if it runs out ok, but I want to see just how much 'muck' is in the catch can after an hour of idling. Would I stand to have less blowby if the engine is driven and warmed up enough to open the thermostat, or will I likely blow by more with the increased rpms?

Anyone have any ideas with this additional information? Thank you for any thought or ideas!

Once you get your VCDS, I'd love to see results of an "Auto Scan", and the timing graph.

The shaking while running could be a bad dual mass flywheel or low compression on one cylinder. Now would be great time to do compression test.

If you still have your remote fuel can hooked up, now would be a good time to run some Liqui Moli Diesel Purge through it. Take care how your lines are supported. Depending on the type of line you use it can get quite soft due to the fuel heating up. Run it straight and vary your RPM. The NAPA’s in my area carry cans of it. If you disconnect the fuel and crank the engine over, does that stumble still show up during cranking? That could be a good indicator of a week cylinder

turbocharged798 said:

The shaking while running could be a bad dual mass flywheel or low compression on one cylinder. Now would be great time to do compression test.

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I can't be for sure, but I think this is a single mass flywheel, but I only say that because I can hear a specific sound while idling in neutral. I could hear the exact sound in my 2.0 car after I did a lightened flywheel/clutch job on it. I'm leaning toward the cylinder issue...but still strictly guessing.

jmodge said:

If you still have your remote fuel can hooked up, now would be a good time to run some Liqui Moli Diesel Purge through it. Take care how your lines are supported. Depending on the type of line you use it can get quite soft due to the fuel heating up. Run it straight and vary your RPM. The NAPA’s in my area carry cans of it. If you disconnect the fuel and crank the engine over, does that stumble still show up during cranking? That could be a good indicator of a week cylinder

Click to expand...

I do have the remote fuel supply hooked up...it's the only way it will run at the moment. I simply haven't had the time to remove the unit in the tank yet, and the IP will not pull through it as it is(not powered). I ran diesel purge after I first got it started, but that was before I had pulled all air piping and cleaned them and before I removed the EGR cooler, etc...but I just let it idle and run, I did not feel comfortable revving it for fear of another hydrolock scenario. I feel confident doing it now, so I will run two more can through it and play with the rpm's while doing it this time. When I did it last time, I put one of the clear paper cartridge filters in the return hose for monitoring. There was a lot of air for a while, but at idle speed, it never got very dirty at all. I thought it would be worse, honestly. I'll probably see a little different results with a little revving. I did buy fuel hose to do this.

I have not watched the engine while cranking. I will do that. In brainstorming the whole thing, here's my latest 'educated guess'...haha.
The PO lost prime, or ran out of fuel. THIS car is a b*tch to ever get primed...maybe due to a 350,000 mile IP...who knows... Op's friend couldn't get it to start...fuel...and put a pump in the tank. Wrong assembly, tried to figure out how to jump it and run it...couldn't get it to work. Maybe put something in the glowplug holes to try to get it to fire??? Maybe??? Friend to OP the engine was just fried...dead because he didn't know what to do.

I think there stuck rings on one cylinder...judging from the nasty 'oil', I can see where the rings could have gummed up, causing the excessive blowby that I'm seeing now. I want to completely separate the CCV system for a bit and see if I continue to see oil in the turbo piping. If I do, I'll pretty well know that the turbo seals need attention, and if not, I'll know it's probably from the blowby in the engine, which I suspect it is. I do think there is a weak cylinder, but I'm really hoping it's due to stuck rings and that maybe I can free them somehow.

Anyone have any suggestions for trying to free stuck rings in one of our diesels?

Any throttle give a totally stumble free rpm response. The odd 'miss' is only detectable at idle.

Any other thoughts??? Thanks so much for all of the suggestions and info!!!

As soon as you feel confident to do so, run it hard with a load. That might free your ring if it’s just a matter of it being fouled up with whatever crud was sitting in that cylinder. How long did that car sit before you got it fired up?

jmodge said:

As soon as you feel confident to do so, run it hard with a load. That might free your ring if it’s just a matter of it being fouled up with whatever crud was sitting in that cylinder. How long did that car sit before you got it fired up?

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The guy said 'about 6 weeks maybe', and that's probably fairly accurate based on when the title said he bought the car etc... Now there's really no telling how long that oil had been in there though...that's what I'd really like to know.

I'm going to look into making a homemade catch can that can hold some volume though. If the problem here is a stuck ring, I don't want to risk a runaway from sucking in oil from the IC, especially since there are no EGR components to help shut it down. The cute little catch can I have is just not gonna cut it. I guess I could just run a hose down under the car, but I'd really rather not. Plus, with a can I can monitor things.

I’d say you’re doing a very good job of troubleshooting and well on your way to spending your money and time down that rabbit hole known as “TDI Torque”

Your miss could be anything from valve train, injector, or compression. Since it quits with RPM, I’d skip valve drain for the moment. Injectors are two stage and from what I understand the second stage pops between 1200 and 1400 RPM. If it’s compression, Boost coming on would help with that scenario, so it could probably smooth out also

jmodge said:

I’d say you’re doing a very good job of troubleshooting and well on your way to spending your money and time down that rabbit hole known as “TDI Torque”

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Haha! Thanks!! (I think)

I already have several other Jettas that need attention, but I hated to pass this one up seeing how cheap it was. I have a beetle that needs an 02j replaced, a jetta vr6 that is in the middle of a Ford coil pack swap, and an 01' 2.0 wagon that keeps on throwing a cat code(with a new cat ). What makes it all so good is the constant rain....and no garage. LOL, but if those are my only problems...I'll make it!

Didnt go back and read the whole forum, so sorry if this has been suggested already.

Have you checked IQ and injector balance in VCDS? Mine had a weird stumble like that only at idle (engine shook and everything occasionally) and adjusting the IQ in Vcds corrected it. I can't recall which way I had to adjust, but may be worth looking into.

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Dhawk12 said:

Didnt go back and read the whole forum, so sorry if this has been suggested already.

Have you checked IQ and injector balance in VCDS? Mine had a weird stumble like that only at idle (engine shook and everything occasionally) and adjusting the IQ in Vcds corrected it. I can't recall which way I had to adjust, but may be worth looking into.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

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Thanks for the suggestion! No, I don't even have VCDS yet, but I do plan on getting it. I probably won't really be able to definitively determine what's wrong without it, but there's always the chance that I'll stumble across it through basic troubleshooting. Maybe... I currently have 6 MK4s, so I need some variation of unlimited VIN's.

jmodge said:

Your miss could be anything from valve train, injector, or compression. Since it quits with RPM, I’d skip valve drain for the moment. Injectors are two stage and from what I understand the second stage pops between 1200 and 1400 RPM. If it’s compression, Boost coming on would help with that scenario, so it could probably smooth out also

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Interesting! I had no idea the injectors were 2 stage. Maybe all injectors are, I honestly have no clue. Man, something to learn every day!!!

http://www.uniteddiesel.co.uk/how-diesel-engines-work


Here's a quick basics page. Our 2 stage injectors inject a small quantity
at 220bar and then a larger amount at 300bar. They can be shimmed to vary
the opening pressures, bigger nozzles commonly have higher pressures.

Rrusse11 said:

http://www.uniteddiesel.co.uk/how-diesel-engines-work


Here's a quick basics page. Our 2 stage injectors inject a small quantity
at 220bar and then a larger amount at 300bar. They can be shimmed to vary
the opening pressures, bigger nozzles commonly have higher pressures.

Click to expand...

Awesome!
Thank you!

Quick, cold update.

I was off for the Holiday, so despite it being 20 degrees here, I hit the local 'pull-a-part' because I knew there was a TDI there. Everything mechanical is untouched on the car, and I was able to grab the fuel sending unit. I want the manual trans and other things, but I'm just not going to try to pull it in this cold.

When I got home, I immediately put the unit in the tank and started the car. It fires right up immediately...no cranking whatsoever now that it's primed.

I drove the car up and down the country road where I live. I probably put 15 miles or so on the car, and from what I can tell, it runs very well. I have never owned nor driven a TDI, so I have nothing to compare it to though. I have a leak in the rubber hose feeding the race pipe, and I think I could hear it hissing when accelerating. There was smoke at startup, but after a few miles, it cleared up. It still rocks front to back in the engine bay at idle, and there is a good deal of blowby when warm. Seems to maintain about 180 degrees coolant temp.

The shifter bushings are 'gone'. They are bad, and immediate repair is necessary. First and third are a little tricky, and reverse is worse. Reverse is possible only if the shifter is up against the interior portion of the console and flexing it toward my right leg a good bit.

The clutch is not great. It grabs way out at the end of the pedal stroke, but I didn't notice any slipping or anything.

I'm not sure what the blowby means yet, completely. I DO think it runs well enough to move forward and keep making improvements. With shifter bushings or a short throw shifter, I'd drive it right away.

For educational purposes, what isn't clearly shown is the needle that is part of the nozzle, the silver piece in the picture below, or the tiny holes in the tip. Click on the pic for a larger image. The adjusting shims control
the spring pressures that "pop" to inject fuel out the orifices in the nozzle tip.
Congrats on getting it running!

Find someone with VCDS to set timing and IQ, that could take care of the rough idle

mk4mr said:

It still rocks front to back in the engine bay at idle, and there is a good deal of blowby when warm.

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How much rocking? That could be a sign that either the dogbone mount (underneath engine bay, center rear. Connects trans housing to subframe, prevents "torque rotation"). is shot, or the holes for the two trans-side bolts are wallowed out.

Left unchecked, this could overstress/break the downpipe at/near its flex joint - I just dealt with this myself: in my case, the pipe appeared to go first, causing horrible exhaust ingress into the cabin when not moving; when I had that fixed, the mount was found to be done, but when the mechanic went to replace it, he found the two bolt holes into the trans were so badly wallowed, the bolts were "rocking" in the holes when the engine revved. He had to helicoil the trans housing as part of replacing the mount in order to get those two bolts to tighten up properly.

I'm not sure whether the mount wore out first, causing the downpipe failure and then the wallowing, or if those three happened in some other order, but I am very sure that I was on the original dogbone mount at 400K.

Since your car's well north of 300K, I'd recommend at least checking your dogbone mount.

Rob Mayercik said:

How much rocking? That could be a sign that either the dogbone mount (underneath engine bay, center rear. Connects trans housing to subframe, prevents "torque rotation"). is shot, or the holes for the two trans-side bolts are wallowed out.
Left unchecked, this could overstress/break the downpipe at/near its flex joint - I just dealt with this myself: in my case, the pipe appeared to go first, causing horrible exhaust ingress into the cabin when not moving; when I had that fixed, the mount was found to be done, but when the mechanic went to replace it, he found the two bolt holes into the trans were so badly wallowed, the bolts were "rocking" in the holes when the engine revved. He had to helicoil the trans housing as part of replacing the mount in order to get those two bolts to tighten up properly.
I'm not sure whether the mount wore out first, causing the downpipe failure and then the wallowing, or if those three happened in some other order, but I am very sure that I was on the original dogbone mount at 400K.
Since your car's well north of 300K, I'd recommend at least checking your dogbone mount.

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Hey! I appreciate the info! I have glanced at the dog bone, but didn't see anything particularly alarming. I have replaced several dog bones, and have seen a few that were bad, but I'm not so sure this one is bad. I'll look at it a little closer. There is a 'sputter' with this engine that causes the rock, and I wouldn't say it was 'in rhythm'. I'll look at all of the mounts closer just to make sure. I've heard of the side trans mount bolts getting loose and wallowing out the holes before, but I haven't had to fix it. I have drilled dog bone bolts out of the transmission case before though.

Hey to all! I'm going to start another post about shifter bushings. I'll mention it here, but I want to have it under a different title as well.

I ordered a 'cheap' short throw shifter for the car because it was 1/2 the price of a bushing kit(from what I've been able to find). Well, stupid me, realized today that this is not a normal Mk4 shifter. I assume this is maybe a Mk3 carryover? Can anyone confirm this? Does anyone have any info on a bushing kit. This shifter is sloppy-bad, and will have to have something. I also noticed that the shift tower is not what I'm used to. Heck, is this still an 02J transmission? Is it possible/advisable to put a MK4 shifter and tower on this transmission or is it not an option?

Someone educate me on this new curiosity I've come across here, please. What are you doing with your high mileage shifters? Thanks!!!

99.5's have an oddball shifter that was a MK3 carryover. Not really much you can do with them other than swap to a later style shifter. Gas or diesel its all the same. You will need the tower on the transmission, shift cables, and shift box.



Also I still think your engine rocking issue is a failing DMF. Do you hear any knocking noises coming from the flywheel area?

I put some interesting findings in the shifter bushing post I created about finding the shifter box/case being busted on the top side. I was able to take two nuts off and use larger washers to sort of bridge the gap over the cracked shifter box and it really made things much more sturdy. The shifter was sagging toward the driver's seat beforehand. I don't even need a bushing kit, really. The lower 'ball' bushing is gone, but other than that, the others are really pretty decent.

So, now I have my next question. First some symptoms and then the question. I have mentioned the 'shutter/stumble' that the engine does at idle. It is irregular, but unmistakable. If I push the clutch pedal in, it goes away. Did early TDI's come with dual-mass flywheels? If so, what are the symptoms of a failing dual-mass flywheel? Could this car possibly still have the original flywheel at 350,000 miles? It sounds like the clutch is rubbing against the flywheel or trying to catch or something...and I think that's what makes the engine rock back and forth and seem to stumble. The clutch doesn't slip during driving conditions, but I swear, it seems like it is almost trying to grab a little while in neutral unless I push the clutch pedal in. What does this mean?

Rrusse11 said:

You need a clutch.

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Is it advisable to go with a single mass flywheel on a TDI?

We have them in both our Jettas, the VR6 setup at Idparts. also replaced pin, fork, and keeper