1987 Mercedes Benz 190d 2.5 Turbo....

ric,

buying a 240d for your son is a great idea. i have my 240d for my children (all 13 of them so far) my oldest is 19 and it is wonderful knowing that he has no choice but to drive at a resonable speed with a safe heavy SLOW diesel hahahahahhahaha!!!

once in a while i even take it out for a spin.

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2000 NB TDI
1999 Dodge 2500 cummins
1981 MB 240d
1985 Toyota Corolla diesel

dalcorn: That doesn't sound like "the one." The first MB I looked at was a blue '85 300D that was described as being in "excellent" condition, and "like new." They also claimed it was a "garage-kept beauty" and a "collector's dream."

It was, in fact, a high mileage poorly maintained rattletrap. The driver's seat springs were completely collapsed, the engine sounded like hell (after I jump started it with the Evil Beetle), the transmission was balky and the body and interior were in "typical" condition for a 15 year old car. The turbocharger was non-functional. Blue oil smoke was belching out of the tailpipe. Neither the ditzy little girl who owned it, nor her new husband, had the slightest clue about MBs or diesel engines.

I strongly suggested to the sellers that they take the first offer they get, regardless of the amount, and RUN to the bank with it. (I refrained from warning them to flee the country while they're at it.)

-mickey

[This message has been edited by mickey (edited April 28, 2000).]

Well, I signed the papers. After some personal VIN research, I contacted CarFax. They reported the vehicle sold in 1992 at an auto auction (so-so news). It failed an emissions test, then passed on the same day, also shortly after the sale in 1992. Emergency exhaust repair, maybe?

A Mercedes salesman ran a maintenance database check and replied the car was ok. Hopefully, I will take delivery in about a week.

Ironically enough, I received an EMail with the CarFax report from a friend offering me his 1987 190e 2.3 16v (!) for probably less than the 190d. I didn't want to know -- I didn't need the temptation. It's in GREAT condition (I drove it) and it'll be listed in "The Star" next issue in case anyone's interested. Anyone retentive will love this car, it's that well cared for.

DSLPWR

1988 VW Golf GTI 16v
1999 Mercedes Benz SLK 230 Sport
1987 Mercedes Benz 190d 2.5 Turbo

Anyone want to buy a Golf?

Well? Do you have the car yet?

-mickey

mickey,

Right, well, that's a short story. Has to do with me making a point with the dealership about charging $590.00 to ship the car. Should be about one more week. I will send pictures to Fred so he can post them.

I'll post a reply once the car arrives. I'm looking forward to the mileage, the power, the comfort, and the fact that the SLK won't be the daily commuter anymore. *WHEW*

DSLPWR

So, DSLPWR, did you ever get your car?
I'd really like to know how it's working out.

I'm in the early stages of negotiating for an '87 190d 2.5-turbo myself. It's high-mileage (189,000) but I've had it checked by a mechanic who says it's in quite good shape. All service records, adult owners, properly maintained, etc. Still, the high mileage is intimidating, although most of it seems to be from highway driving - one previous owner commuted several hundred miles daily for several years!

I think we're going to wind up around $5000-5500 as a final price. (If I don't back out first....)

Cheers -
RJLaue

189K is not particularly high mileage for an '87. If the car is in good shape it's got plenty of life left in it. And when its life is over you can use the 4 grand you saved vs. the cost of a "museum quality" garage queen to rebuild the engine and tranny! With cars this old, particularly a car that's meant to be rebuilt (like Benzes are) the miles are not the primary concern. The overall condition, particularly the basic soundness of the body, interior and chassis, are most important. The mechanical bits are relatively easy to restore compared to a rusted body or shredded interior.

-mickey

Well, just got a message from the dealership questioning receipt of wire transferred money for shipment. My faith in the dealership is diminishing rapidly. Once I receive the car, I will certainly be posting the vehicles performance and a rating of the dealership. So far, the dealership is not going out of it's way to assist. I'm having to prod them a bit and ask questions to ge things moving. Unfortunate.

More later...

DSLPWR

Wow. A month and a half! You could WALK to Florida faster than that, and pick it up yourself!

-mickey

Jumping in late here. I just have a comment about Mercedes automatic transmissions. I have one in my '85 Porsche 928S. Porsche put them in the 928 from the 500 SEL as these were basically all that was available to handle the torque. Very complicated little (big) buggers. Yes, they take ATF, not gear oil. You definitely want to replace that fluid as soon as you get one, or at least make sure you know when it was last changed. Also, duh, change the filter while you're at it.

Regarding the 'clunk', this is, on my car anyway, controlled by vacuum. There is also an adjustment that can be made to vary the sharpness of the shifts. NO vaccum is very hard shifts. FULL vacuum results in smoother shifts. If you're experiencing harsh shifting, I suspect a) old tranny fluid, but most likely b) a vacuum leak. The latter is quite prevalant on older vehicles.

2 cents.

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Jeff
'00 Golf GL TDI 5 speed

mickey, no doubt you are correct. Trouble is, getting away and the time value of money. It's easier for me to pay than get the time from work. Well, that's assuming someone is doing their job to standard.

I called the dealer yesterday and got the following information: the shipper was about to pick up the car when the dealership discovered someone else's car had been sitting in the shipper's lot for over 3 weeks or so. So, the dealership is transferring business to another, more reliable shipper who charges more. But the dealership will suck up the price difference and the car should leave their grounds within 48 hours. Trouble apparently is that nobody wants their cars shipped to Tennessee from Florida, so finding a truck going that direction is difficult.

So they tell me. At this point, I am inclined to believe they're simply working to appease me. In military-speak, it's "deny everything, admit nothing, and shift blame from a known point."

The walking shoes are on, and I am at the doorstep!

DSLPWR

Patience, my son. My brother is picking up an '87 300D today. I drove it, and it's an absolute ROCKET even with 167,000 miles on the clock. Your 190D Turbo should be even faster, despite the lack of 1 cylinder, because it's a lighter car. It'll pin you back in your seat right off the line! Wow, these are fantastic old cars. I love mine like a member of the family!

-mickey

Well, the car is here. And I have driven it over 100 miles on it's first day. Judging by the smoke, it's been sitting for a while. Well, that and the leaves in the engine compartment.

What's good:
1. Unbelievable power for a diesel. First jerks into second because it's geared so low. But drop the auto to 2nd and let it go, and you're at 60mph before you know it. And it never goes over 3,800 rpm. With a little accelerator push around 2,000 rpm, you just feel this push into the seat. It's wonderful.

2. Ride comfort. Deceivingly smooth ride for such a small car. Feels like a luxury car, but still handles well. Much smoother than the SLK, but of course, it's a different intent as well.

3. Overall condition, I guess. No major anything wrong with the car. Body panels straight, lined up, some scratches and a few minor paint blemishes.

What's Bad:

1. Oil leak around the cylinder head. Must investigate further; haven't had time this week to do any searching. Could be minor... Could be more important...

2. The first button I pushed was the dash button to raise the antenna. I pushed it and it fell right into the dashboard. Now I have to fish it out to try it.

3. Radio doesn't work. You'd think the dealership would tell me if it didn't. Nope. Could be an easy fix.

4. Absolutely no paperwork. Car was advetised as having complete records and manuals. I received the car with nothing. Not even a spare tire or first aid kit.

5. Passengers side rear window is inop as well as the passengers side seat. Well, the window goes down about 4 inches, then binds somehow.

6. Alignment. Something in the front right side is slapping the road as you drive. Could be the tire, I suspect wheel balance, alignment, or something more serious. I hope not.

7. Vent on drivers side outboard won't close.

8. Parking light bulb out on front passenger's side. The right directional simply comes on and won't flash at all. I think the wiring does this to indicate the bulb is out. Anyone know differently?

The car is basically great. Gets up and GOES. 80 mph is nothing. 90 is still smooth. But I am thoroughly disappointed by the salesmanship I received. Here's a quote from the saleswoman I corresponded with about the car:

"The 87 190D 2.5 Turbo is a very rare car. It was only made this one year. Ours is a magnificent example with very low mileage (98k) full service books and records. It has always been garaged and meticulously maintained. It is in excellent condition inside and out. If you are particular, you will appreciate this car. We were asking $10,900 for this car but have not had much of a response. Can let it go for $7950 which is just about what we have in it."

You decide. I don't want to fry anyone, but I'll let it be known if I think I'm not getting an honest answer.

DSLPWR

[This message has been edited by DSLPWR (edited June 07, 2000).]

One other thing. Advertised as a garaged vehicle, yet the seat belt release tabs between the front seats are light pink. And the bumpers are a light grey.

Someone please tell me a 13 year old garaged car is likely to have such faded release tabs and bumpers. If it's just me, let me know and I will eat my humble pie.

DSLPWR

You know, you'd think you would have asked them to fax over the records before you bought it.

Seriously, that sucks. I'm glad overall you seem happy, but they blatantly lied to you.

Perhaps you can get them to pay for most of the repairs? Otherwise contact the Better Business Bureau and others, including M-B to notify them of this.

Bummer how those weasels lied to you. If you're a DIYer buy a set of engine and body manuals. If not, buy a set of metric tools and the manuals and become a DIYer. W201s are not hard cars to work on.

Welcome to the club. As with Mickey, Valois, me, and a few others who all bought well used MBs, you are going to get aquainted to your car real fast. But after you get all those details worked out and give this car the care it deserves, it will reward you with years of faithful service and fun. The only item on your list that is serious is the oil leak. The rest are annoying, maybe expensive to fix, but not serious. Take care of this car and it will take care of you.

My MB is a hobby so I don't get too worked up over the money I've spent on it. My reward is the fun and satisfaction I get. It's that simple.

Brian, 97 Passat TDI, 85 300D-T

Threaten to file a complaint with the State Board that licenses dealers, that should get his attention. They outright lied to you! Or prehaps shipped you the wrong car.

I would seek some monitary compensation.

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D.O.C.I. Doctor of Compression Ignition

Get Amsoil at WHOLESALE BY PASS THE DEALER!!
Dieselworld@netzero.net
www.synthetic-motor-oil.com

TDI Steve, you are entirely correct. If I were smarter, I would have asked for copies of all records prior to purchasing the vehicle. Lesson learned. Guess that was pretty naive on my part. I ignorantly trusted when it was more prudent to be careful.

As for DIY'ing it, that's my intent. I have some limited tools, metric type, and I plan on acquiring the W201 CD ROM in the near future. My immediate plan is to make a comprehensive list of deficiencies, prioritize them, and get to work. This will involve a trip or two to the dealership.

The power is great; straight line acceleration yields a distinct and clear scraping sound (going into second gear) as the earth attempts to keep up with the car.

Coaxing the upshift by lifting the accelerator pedal yields even better results as the engine performs so well at lower rpm's. That turbo sound is great.

Registered under the plate name "CMDVEH" (command vehicle). It's a military thing, I already had the plate, and it was less expensive by about $300.00. Next time, I might go with my alias here.

DSLPWR

1988 VW Golf GTI 16v
1987 MB 190d 2.5 Turbo
1999 MB SLK 230 Sport

Jeez, that's too bad. You just KNOW that a lot full of pristine MB diesels is too good to be true. I'm sure they have a few really fantastic ones now and them, but I'll bet that your experience is more typical.

But on a more positive note, you have a car that's probably more in need of a little TLC and basic maintainance than any major work. That oil on the head is probably just from a leaky valve cover gasket. Turbo Steve was at the Utah Tech Session this afternoon and said that he fixes old MBs now and then, and you can often cure a leaky valve cover by simply tightening the bolts. As for the other stuff: Just dive in and start tinkering! But the first thing I'd do is get some proper oil in there, and flush out the cooling system (try and find some citric acid powder to run through the system with clean water for 50 miles or so) and replace the miserable Green Stuff with proper Dexcool. And replace all those little braided fuel hoses on the injectors.

-mickey

Congratulations on your aquisition, even with the minor problems you have discovered it sounds like a fantastic car. I'm with BKmetz, I actually enjoy working on these cars. After working on mid engine Porsches for many years the MB is an actual pleasure, the massive access to the motor! I have had good luck in the past using a water/vinegar mixture to flush cooling systems. You must be careful, because any weak points will fail if given the opportunity. Good luck!

No major work seems to be necessary and the car goes, stops, turns and runs rather well. This is a good thing. I just felt led to believe the car was much more than that. Maybe it's me.

Got the W201 CD on the way. Now I just need to spend some time under the hood. I'm looking forward to it!

Thanks for all the helpful assistance -- I'm sure I will employ most, if not all, you have to offer me.

DSLPWR