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TDI 101 Got a simple/basic TDI question? Are you a newbie (new to the forums). Feel free to post your question here.

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Old July 11th, 2019, 05:51   #1
Superclarke
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Put new timing belt on 2001 vw beetle tdi and now it wonít start. This is the second one Iíve done and the first went perfect. Have all the tools and followed the directions on this forum. Pretty sure I put the pin for the injection pump in the wrong hole so now Iím backing up and doing part of the sequence again. Here is my question. I have a manual trans and had a hard time verifying TDC. If I verify that the first two cam lobs are up and the cam lock slides in properly, why do I need to find tdc on the flywheel?
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Old July 11th, 2019, 06:04   #2
Prairieview
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In order to properly place the pistons in relation to the valves. Not doing so will turn you into a "walker" or a mechanic. Your choice.
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Old July 11th, 2019, 06:40   #3
Superclarke
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Thanks prairie view for your response but my question is : is it possible to have the engine not tdc if both lobs are up and the cam lock is inserted. I thought it would either be tdc or 180 degrees off if the lobs were pointed down. Am I incorrect in my thinking?
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Old July 11th, 2019, 07:01   #4
phawkins224
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Yes it is possible to not have it TDC. That's why you verify when doing a timing job, cam lobes up, engine TDC....after you finished did you turn engine over manually by hand a few times to make sure your pistons and valves are not hitting? Start from the begininng again and put cam lobes up, lock pump and verify piston on cylinder one is TDC. If you cannot see mark on fly wheel pull you glow plug on cylinder one and use a long wooden dowel to verify TDC. you can turn engine by hand and watch the the wooden dowel when it reaches TDC and then drops back down.
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Old July 11th, 2019, 07:10   #5
Superclarke
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Thanks for your input...still donít see how itís possible because the cam shaft lock only has two possible positions but I will try your suggestion with the glow plug hole. Yes I did turn it by hand twice and then tried to start it. Pretty sure itís the injector pin alignment but I wanted to make sure I could verify tdc. Iíll let you know what I find out
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Old July 11th, 2019, 07:37   #6
steve6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Superclarke View Post
Thanks prairie view for your response but my question is : is it possible to have the engine not tdc if both lobs are up and the cam lock is inserted. I thought it would either be tdc or 180 degrees off if the lobs were pointed down. Am I incorrect in my thinking?
The belt could have moved(skipped, not tightened correctly) so yes, cam could not be perfect relation to crank (TDC), it would be in the ball park, but may be out various degrees. You should find the proper tdc in relation to the window, TDC is only 100% verified this way.. when you find mark it with some paint so if you have to do it again you see the paint easier. TDC is only 100% verified this way
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Old July 11th, 2019, 07:38   #7
KLXD
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You're thinking is correct IF, note the big if, the cam was properly timed to begin with.

How did you verify TDC the first time you did the belt and this time when you pinned the pump incorrectly?
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Old July 11th, 2019, 08:26   #8
Superclarke
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First time was at 200000 miles and I canít remember how I verified tdc but it did start after I purged the fuel lines. Iím at 300000 and itís been a long process, had a couple of surgeries which delayed finishing it and Iím not sure I was real mentally sharp. Now Iím getting ahead of myself but what happens if I get it set to tdc and the cam shaft lock canít be inserted into the cam shaft end? Going to do what you guys suggested and Iíll get back to you
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Old July 11th, 2019, 08:45   #9
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You know you haven't felt valve contact, so...

Set crank at TDC. Cam tool goes in? Pump pin goes in? If both fit you have another problem.

If cam and pump locks don't both go in then loosen tensioner, break cam gear loose, loosen pump sprocket bolts, relocate pump so pin goes in and bolts are centered in slots, relocate cam and insert lock, tension belt, verify crank hasn't moved and move it back if it has, torque cam and pump bolts using counterhold tools not relying on locating tools, remove locks, rotate motor USING CRANK BOLT not cam or pump, verify timing mark and tools fit.
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Saying no to gas for 25 years:

Current: í02 Jetta, Auto; í98 Jetta, 5 Spd; í98 Dodge, 5 Spd, SB, 4x4; í84 Grand Wagoneer with Nissan SD33T, NV4500, Dana 300, Reverse Cut Dana 44, Dana 60

The Black Sheep (Only gasser): í85 CJ, 4.2 w/4.0 Head and Mopar FI.

Past: í85 Mitsubishi PU, 4D55T; í81 Rabbit, 1.6; í80 Dasher, 1.5; í79 Rabbit, 1.5

Last edited by KLXD; July 11th, 2019 at 08:49.
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Old July 11th, 2019, 08:46   #10
AndyBees
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TDC on the crankshaft should be the first thing you verify when setting up to do a TB job. Remove the air box (and battery if you feel necessary) so that you can see into the hole without obstructions. If the TB job was done properly the previous time, well, the Cam lock should basically fall in place. Sometimes it takes a little "rocking" back and forth...... same with the IP pin.

If the slot on the end of the Cam is parallel with the top of the head and the lobes on #1 are at 10 and 2, the crankshaft should be mighty close to TDC... just nudge it a bit to find the mark..

Yep, prolly need to start over!
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Old July 11th, 2019, 09:29   #11
Superclarke
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New update...removed cam pulley and then injector pump sprocket. Current problem , the slot on the flange that the sprocket bolts onto(that the pin eventually slides into) is not perfectly aligned with the hole in the back. When I try to turn the flange a little bit it springs forward and is still out of alignment by going past the hole. Any ideas what to do???
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Old July 11th, 2019, 10:48   #12
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Hold it in position and install the pin.

This is normal. In the pinned position the cam plate is starting to compress the springs.

I think this is the reason some people pin it in the wrong place.
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Saying no to gas for 25 years:

Current: í02 Jetta, Auto; í98 Jetta, 5 Spd; í98 Dodge, 5 Spd, SB, 4x4; í84 Grand Wagoneer with Nissan SD33T, NV4500, Dana 300, Reverse Cut Dana 44, Dana 60

The Black Sheep (Only gasser): í85 CJ, 4.2 w/4.0 Head and Mopar FI.

Past: í85 Mitsubishi PU, 4D55T; í81 Rabbit, 1.6; í80 Dasher, 1.5; í79 Rabbit, 1.5
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Old July 11th, 2019, 14:18   #13
Superclarke
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Thanks for all the help....used an adjustable wrench on the injection pump to get pin to slide in. One word for anyone else doing this..itís a tight fit...the pin wonít wiggle at all! I am now sure that is what I did wrong initially. Started up and sounds fine. Will put the vag com on it tomorrow to tweak timing if it needs it. ThNks again for all the posters that offered suggestions.
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Old July 11th, 2019, 16:23   #14
Mongler98
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The trick i use for this is that i get everything EXACTLY where it goes and lock it, i use the tensioner arm OUT of its hole, this gives you just enough room to put the belt on with next to no tension but still enough to not move everything, then with a bent flat head custom hook like tool i made, ill pull the arm in to its resting place putting tension on the belt once i get the nut just a bit on, then its a matter of finishing the job. took me a few times to figure this out, it saves me having to reposition the cam , i also have a custom locking tool that i made, i just took a long bolt and used it by cutting off the threads on the end but its loosy goosy by about 3 mm, i cut off the head of the bolt and just use it as a shaft, once i have the belt in place but need to tention things up i slide a piece of copper pipe i made fit over the bolt, split it down the middle on one side and rolled it to fit around the bolt, this makes a tight fit and put the IP back to where it needs to be but gives me PLENTY of room to work with things with the belt slightly slack, obviously i have the shim pipe in place when putting the belt on to start and i use some plastic clamps to hold it on the cam sprocket and the IP sprocket AND the crank Sprocket. this is a trick i say speeds the job up by about 10 minutes easily .
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