VW violates Magnuson Moss with PD oil requirements

Interesting article in Lubes and Greases magazine. Not really anything we don't already know, but the author is mistaken about the 2004 TDI engine being the same as previous models. Nevertheless, it seems VW is not playing nice about the issue.

Chris

VW violates Magnuson-Moss

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Interesting article in Lubes and Greases magazine. Not really anything we don't already know, but the author is mistaken about the 2004 TDI engine being the same as previous models. Nevertheless, it seems VW is not playing nice about the issue.

Chris

VW violates Magnuson-Moss

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__. I disagree (which doesn't matter a whit -- what makes a difference is what a judge says). It's perfectly permissible under Magnuson-Moss for a company to specify *a standard* for parts or materials to be used for maintenance of a warranty. And VW has issued the "505.01" standard. It's permissible for any oil company to sell a "505.01" oil and, if this oil is used, VW can't deny warranty.

__. It's a nasty situation, but not one that is in violation of M-M Warranty Act.

That whole article is so full of holes it isn't funny. I wrote a letter to Tim Sullivan this morning about this article highlighting the errors. It simply appears that the quick lube franchises want business from VW customers yet they don't want to offer the required product. Companies such as Jiffy Lube have the clout to get the major oil makers to sell their product here in North America but it's just a matter of taking the steps to do it. But companies like Jiffy Lube would rather use the 'one size fits none' approach and sell the cheapest product they can get by with while charging the highest profit possible. VW simply said 'NO' to this approach and set their own standards for oil.

If it goes to court then VW has nothing to worry about. However, I would like to see more companies offer a lubricant that meets the 505.01 standard.

I honestly believe that as the PD TDI becomes more common that we'll see more 505.01 oils available. Jiffy Lube should spearhead the industry and stock the correct oil instead of trying to sue the engine manufacturer.

NOTE: I am only assuming that Jiffy Lube is retailer that brought this situation to the attention of the regulators.

What is really crappy, is that VW designed their pd engine to be so finicky it has to use such a special oil. Large craps on VW for making such a whiny, tempermental engine! /images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

'Morning,

I read the article this morning and don't think that Tim Sullivan is at fault for reporting the complaint filed by the Automotive Oil Change Association. The folks that should be in the 'cross-hairs' of a protest is the association for wasting the FTC's time with this complaint. This just proves that the Association didn't take the time to understand what VW was doing, and doesn't suggest that their legal department really understands the MM Act. ...or... They understand it all completely and filed a bogus complaint anyway to flex their muscles.

If VW really specified that their product was the only one to use, instead of any product that meets 505.01 (with only one product at the time available in North America that meets the spec), then maybe the 'oops' belongs to VWOA.

Too many lawyers, too many associations, and not enough common sense. Sigh.

I sent Mr. Sullivan an email:

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Dear Mr. Sullivan,

I understand that you are quoting Joanna Johnson, however, a couple of her facts are incorrect.

1. “the same TDI engine has been used in previous vehicle models without the requirement to use the Volkswagen oil.” The previous years TDIs, mine included, can use any API CI-4 oil meeting VW spec 505.00. The ’04 engines are different. They have individual fuel pumps for each injector whereas the older ones have one pump for all of them.
2. VW505.01 spec oil is available from other sources than VW dealers. Mobil makes one but only sells it in Europe. Motul sells one in the US www.motul.com

Thanks for listening!


Paul L Fisher

2002 Volkswagen Jetta GLS TDI automatic - Galactic Blue - 22,000 miles

- Amsoil Series 3000 5W-30
- Amsoil TS-160 Oiled Foam air filter
- OldNavy CCV filter (coming soon)

Check out my website: http://www.paul-fisher.com
Get Amsoil at 10% off of list! http://tinyurl.com/27ys6



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whiny

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Pot, meet kettle.

VW could either A) scrap the idea of PD injection entirely(no more TDI in north america), or B) spec an oil that will allow the engine to work for it's lifetime.

Apparently you'd like them to choose A. Since they are in the business to sell cars, they obviously chose B. Since I like TDIs, I'm with them.

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What is really crappy, is that VW designed their pd engine to be so finicky it has to use such a special oil. Large craps on VW for making such a whiny, tempermental engine!

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Camshaft lobes activate the "pump injectors". If there is even the slightest wear of these lobes, the fuel timing could be off. That's why the PD engine requires a very special oil. (And that's why I'll never own a PD.)

Interestingly enough there is a VW dealer here in South Florida (Vista) is a dealer for Motul and not only stocks the 505.01 but sells it for $6.95 per quart -- nearly half the price of the factory Castrol oil. Not sure but other dealers may catch on to this and start to do it as well.

...and so does Ford & Honda requiring 5w20 oil in the gassers

so doesn't dozens of other manufacturers specifying their own lube in Automatic transmissions..Some manual transmissions as well..

So if you bring your vehicle that has a requirement for a specific fluid to a quickie lube place, what do you think happens?

And if there is a failure of that component down the road, NOW what do you think happens?

(I suspect that I know the answers, I'm just stirring up trouble again ...)

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...and so does Ford & Honda requiring 5w20 oil in the gassers

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No, because lots of companies including Amsoil make a 5W-20.

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...and so does Ford & Honda requiring 5w20 oil in the gassers

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No, because lots of companies including Amsoil make a 5W-20.

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And lots of companies make VW505.01 oil, including Exxon/Mobil. Just that they won't sell them in NA because there's not enough demand. Welcome to world capitalism where demand is not your demand.

as I said, pd's are whiny little gay engines. LOL. I'd much prefer if they sold the pre-PD standard TDI like my 02. Not sure why they went to a more complex injection design for an engine that only puts out a few more hp.

Its' fine for VW to require VW 502.00/505.00/505.01, or Mercedes to require DB 229.3/229.5, or BMW to require their "longlife" spec - provided there are other common sources for this lube.
I don't think having to mail order the Motul 6100 Series synthetic meets the intent of the Moss/Mag act, with regards to fostering competition in the replacement part industry.

All the other European OEM spec oils are commonly available from multiple sources, such as Mobil, Amsoil,Valvoline, Castrol etc....

TS

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...and so does Ford & Honda requiring 5w20 oil in the gassers

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No, because lots of companies including Amsoil make a 5W-20.

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Back in 2001, when both Ford and Honda introduced 5w20 requirement, there wasn't a market available for 5w20 oil. It's either Motorcraft or Honda, if you want the API cert.

The API cert for the Amsoil XL7500 5w20 did not occur until 2002. Back in 01, Ford and Honda were strict on the API certified oils, or consider your warranty voided, and Ford has done it, even when people sued, they still won out (higher paid lawyers)

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Its' fine for VW to require VW 502.00/505.00/505.01, or Mercedes to require DB 229.3/229.5, or BMW to require their "longlife" spec - provided there are other common sources for this lube.

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Well, I have seen a 2000 BMW owner's manual that says to only put in BMW 5W-30 motor oil, though topping off with Mobil 1 5W-30 or 5W-40 is acceptable.

Of course, it isn't just oil. How about the numerous kinds of special coolants that are specified for various kinds of cars?

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...and so does Ford & Honda requiring 5w20 oil in the gassers

[/ QUOTE ]No, because lots of companies including Amsoil make a 5W-20.

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Okay, but what about 0W-20 speced for the Honda Hybrids? There's only one source for that...Honda. And yet despite 4 years of this, no one has used the M-M Act to attack Honda.

I think VW is perfectly safe.

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Okay, but what about 0W-20 speced for the Honda Hybrids? There's only one source for that...Honda. And yet despite 4 years of this, no one has used the M-M Act to attack Honda.


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Kragen has Mobil 1 0W-20 on the shelf.

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as I said, pd's are whiny little gay engines. LOL. I'd much prefer if they sold the pre-PD standard TDI like my 02. Not sure why they went to a more complex injection design for an engine that only puts out a few more hp.

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Because there are more powerful stock PD engines (150hp etc) but you are not allowed to buy one. The oil has to cater for those engines though. Stick with your 90hp unit and feed it WalMart oil and don't get involved with engines you don't understand.

IIRC the 130 and 150 PD's also come with the 6-speed manual and I think ASR/EDL as well. Price is another factor.