2002 Jetta TDI 01M surging

I realize the 01M is the problem child when it comes to automatic transmissions. Mine is surging, very subtly, around 40 mph/2000 rpm. I've included a VC-Scope of the TCC based on directions from CoolAirVW. I'm so new at diagnostics that I'm not sure what this graph is telling me. Can any of you help decipher?

http://pics.tdiclub.com/showphoto.php?photo=79402&title=tcc-slip-graph-1&cat=500][img

Thanks,

This looks like TCC surging, but you should do this with the "pixel shift" setting at its highest setting (15).

But, looks like you can see surging on the TCC slip and on the rpm. That probably means its a valve body problem.

I am happy to say that I've used CoolairVw for rebuilds on 2 valve bodies(so far) that successfully resolved issues in 01M's. One has been in service for 25k since the rebuild without a hiccup. Fast turnaround, professional communication and quality work.

rackaracka said:

I am happy to say that I've used CoolairVw for rebuilds on 2 valve bodies(so far) that successfully resolved issues in 01M's. One has been in service for 25k since the rebuild without a hiccup. Fast turnaround, professional communication and quality work.

Click to expand...

Ditto

CoolAirVW - I'll run another VC-Scope and post it. If nothing else just so I can see the difference.

rackaracka & sdeck - thanks for the additional information. I should have added that I'm at 185K+ on my original 01M, so I feel fortunate that it hasn't caused me problems before now.

I've graphed my 01M again using CoolAirVw's specs; does it provide more clarity than the previous graph? I can feel the surges occasionally while driving now. It also appears that it is taking longer for my transmission to engage when placed in reverse. Would that also be a symptom of a bad/leaking valve body?

http://pics.tdiclub.com/showphoto.php?photo=79441&title=tcc-slip-graph-2&cat=500]

I Guess I'm gonna be "That guy" that says..... 5-Speed swap time!!! I did a 5-Speed swap about a year and a half ago and I couldn't be happier with my TDI now.

ItsADiesel said:

I Guess I'm gonna be "That guy" that says..... 5-Speed swap time!!! I did a 5-Speed swap about a year and a half ago and I couldn't be happier with my TDI now.

Click to expand...

There are lots of advantages to speed swap, and this is a good option that should be considered when someone has a 01m trans failure. But in this situation a 5 speed swap would be spending 3-4 thousand dollars to fix a 400-500 dollar problem.

The graph shows that the TCC slip surges in and out 50 rpm or more. Since you can also see it reflected in the engine rpm I am certain it is bad enough that it needs addressed.

Oh, and in order to show the graph here in the forum, rather than folks having to click it and look (oh my finger is so tired from clicking!!), read the following link...

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=207484

or just click your link and then at the bottom of the picture hosting page click the "link pic" icon, that looks like a chain on a picture. When you click this two more lines of "html code" will appear, then cut the code from the "medium image" text box and paste it into your post on this thread.

Oh, and you've done some nice information gathering here. Good job.

Thanks for all the good information and suggestions. I am going to pull the valve body and have that checked & repaired by CoolAirVw. If that doesn't fix my problem then I'll have to consider a 5-speed swap. I'm at the tail end of wildfire season here, so I may not get the valve body pulled for a few more weeks. I will repost here when I have the car back together. From all the information I've been able to glean over the past couple of weeks I'm confident that CoolAirVw can get my valve body repaired.

FYI, pulling the valve body is a piece of cake, with the exception of the ribbon cable. Since you have the time, order the special little tool from CoolAirVW to remove it. Your nerves will thank you. That cable is brittle and expensive and the tool is cheap. I wish it had been available when I did mine.

When you re-install, make sure you hook the shift lever cable to the gear selection valve (?) before you put the pan back on. You can use a magnet to tease the valve outward enough to hook the little connector to it. That was the only part of the instructions that wasn't clear to me. Except for the part about needing to check the fluid level WITH THE CAR RUNNING!. That is apparently so well known that that little detail was left out. Let us know how it goes!

How to remove valve body on 01m...

http://kansascitytdi.com/01m-valve-body-removal-and-reinstalation/

Its more like.... "how to remove internal harness from solenoids on 01m".. but the rest of the valve body removal is peice of cake.

Followed CoolAirVw's directions to the letter; valve body removal was simple, it's boxed up and ready to ship. I'm excited to get this car back on the road again!!

The hardest part of getting it out is the solenoid connectors, and once you get the hang of it - it's pretty easy. The other thing to realize is that it's a messy job. If you've got a lot of time, you can loosen all of the screws and get the valve body to drop 1/8" from the trans and let it drain for a long time. After I remove one I let it sit on a stack of clean paper towels on my workbench. After a few hours, I flip it over on a new stack of paper towels. Then when it's done dripping I wrap it in some fresh paper towels slide the package into a freezer ziplock bag. Less chance of having a soggy usps flat rate box delivered to CoolAirVW.

Update your thread when you get it re-installed and let us know the results.

The solenoid connectors weren't too bad. Made a small "slim jim" from an old windshield wiper blade backer...very thin piece of metal. beveled each end slightly so it would fit easily between the harness plug and the connector and that made enough room for the two teeth to move past easily when pressure was applied with the "special tool" made for removing the solenoid connector. I drained the valve body all night on paper towels, put it in a gallon freezer bag and taped the....heck...out of it. Time to go salmon fishing until the unit is back...

Any updates?

Valve Body is back, along with some paperwork on installation procedures. Hope to reinstall it this weekend and be able to report back on Monday with results.

make sure the car is level, trans fluid at correct temp, and RUNNING when you check the level. Also, the gear select valve(?) that connects to the gear shift cable can be pulled out with a magnet just enough so you can hook the linkage to it. (Don't pull it all the way out)

sdeck said:

make sure the car is level, trans fluid at correct temp, and RUNNING when you check the level. Also, the gear select valve(?) that connects to the gear shift cable can be pulled out with a magnet just enough so you can hook the linkage to it. (Don't pull it all the way out)

Click to expand...

I removed the manual gear select valve before I shipped the valve body to CoolAirVW. There shouldn't be any problems if I lube the valve with fluid and reinstall it in the valve body carefully should there? And thanks for the tips for checking the fluid level.

I'll report back, hopefully Monday at the latest, on the results. If I run into trouble, I'll report back much sooner!

You dont really need to prelube it, just make sure its clean.

I was able to install the valve body last night, and drove it for about 10 minutes (was in the process of graphing my tranny, but the battery in my laptop died during my drive...go figure). I was gone all day today and unable to drive it until right before dark. I got some good graphs that I will post tomorrow with a little explanation of what was taking place when the graph was created. It seems there is still a little surging, however, nothing like before the valve body was repaired. Thanks for all the tips on removal and installation (including fluid level check procedure), it made a world of difference!

Ok, I took the car for a drive and the next two graphs are at 45mph with the cruise control on. I had not graphed my car prior to the surging problem, so I'm not sure if the TCC should most always be flat. But I figured I'd let the pro's take a look and hopefully provide some feedback. I will say that my car does NOT surge like it did before CoolAirVW got ahold of the valve body. The before (scroll up and see previous graphs) and after graphs show that pretty clearly.

http://pics.tdiclub.com/showphoto.php?photo=80484&title=fixed-1&cat=500

http://pics.tdiclub.com/showphoto.php?photo=80485&title=fixed-2&cat=500

The Last picture I'm doing about 55 mph and I don't have the cruise control on.

http://pics.tdiclub.com/showphoto.php?photo=80486&title=fixed-3&cat=500


I'm not sure if the information in the graphs shows that all the issues are resolved, I can only tell you that I don't feel the surging like I did before. This has been a VERY painless repair up to this point. I would recommend CoolAirVW for valve body repair based on what I've experienced so far. Any observations are welcome.

Its my opinion that vag-com and/or the trans computer only outputs slip in 15 rpm intervals, so if the computer "sees" one rpm of slip it posts 15. This is why a trans that is not surging still shows 15 rpm "humps". The important part is does it reflect into engine rpm surging which most of your graphs do not show. The last graph does show some "reflection" of the TCC surging in the engine rpm but if your not feeling it then its not a problem.

But... I have driven 01m's that the TCC slip line is perfectly flat.

I've gotta think this thing is fixed. I've been driving it quite a bit and don't feel anything out of the ordinary. I believe I've made the correct decision (following CoolAirVW's information) to have the valve body repaired. If anything out of the ordinary pops up I'll repost here, but I'm feeling confident in this repair job.

I would add that when I replaced my transmission fluid I thought it would be simple to rig up a device to just pump it back in the same hole I drained it from. I picked up a fluid transfer pump ($7.99) and located a threaded tubing connector and screwed it in the drain hole. I pumped in slightly more than what I had drained out, let the excess drain out the hole while it was cool, and replaced the drain plug. I warmed up fluid to temperature and removed the drain plug and let the excess drain out while the car was running. Very little fluid loss (about 1/2 cup) and easy access.

Thanks again to all of you who offered help, especially CoolAirVW. You are all assets to this forum and a great resource for people looking for information & help.

Why not just fill it throught the G38 sensor hole as per my website? Pulling the breather out is quicker than "fabbing" a pump.

Your right CoolAir, it's probably easier to go through the sensor hole; It just seemed simple and trouble free (didn't have to remove anything else) since I had the pan off already and a fitting that worked. I hope my comment doesn't lead anyone astray, I was simply sharing information that I though might be helpful.

Why not use the standard fill hole? I bought the VAG tool for that hangs from the hood with a ball valve to turn on and off the fill. It's a pleasure to use.

rackaracka said:

Why not use the standard fill hole? I bought the VAG tool for that hangs from the hood with a ball valve to turn on and off the fill. It's a pleasure to use.

Click to expand...

Because most "Do it Yourselfers" dont want to "buy" stuff like a VAG tool, just to do the job one time, but then I suppose someone might have to buy a transmission type funnel to do it my way. I have an electric pump that I use to fill transmissions that I could use, but I dont like having to remove the red lock cap. It is very possible to remove the red lock cap, but most folks would break it off and have to "buy" a new lock cap.

Someone could say "well I dont want to pull the breather" but if you do it as often as I do it doesnt take any time at all.

So in the end doing it my way saves money.

Different strokes for different folks.

Good call CoolAir! If I didn't service a fleet of automatic VW's I wouldn't have spent the money on the tool. The first dozen or so services I did to 01M's, I was using a marine outboard outdrive hand pump... After 3 liters your pump finger starts getting numb - while watching VCDS trans temp...

Rebel67, please keep us updated as you continue to enjoy your 01M. It's remarkable how much more solid the shifts are as well as the engagement of the trans is after CoolAirVW reworks the valve body.

- Chris

I've driven over 200 miles so far and couldn't be happier. After having read several other posts concerning the 01M I feel so fortunate that I was able to get this car back on the road for such a low price. It'd be nice to get another 183K out of it!!