Need some help narrowing down where to look

This is a 2006 Jetta TDI DSG

So here's the story,

From a cold start, engine starts, ~1 second later it stalls. Crank from anywhere from 10seconds to several minutes (longer it sat, longer i have to crank) and it starts back up and runs like normal. This started roughly around March. Brought the car into a shop from the trusted TDI list from these forms. Came back saying no codes so they checked the fuel pump. Fuel pump wasn't priming. Got that replaced. Problem still happened every now and then, usually if the car sat unused over a weekend or so. They checked all the fuel lines for leaks and couldn't find anything. Still no codes. In late Apr/early May, took the car into the dealership. No error codes, said the fuel filter was clogged so they:
replaced fuel filter
cleaned injectors
purged fuel line

Engine still stalled. came back 2 weeks later, no codes couldn't reproduce problem, told me to come back with a video.

Fast forward several months, engine still stalls every so often and then it started happening consistently. Basically, if the car sat for ~8.5hrs or more, it would stall. Brought it back to the dealership, no codes. Said the fuel pump needs to be replaced again. Had the shop replace it under warranty, brought it back to the dealership 2 weeks later. They came back with a P2015 code and wanted to replace the throttle body. That confused me. When I searched about it, it usually comes with a check engine light. Co-worker who fixes and sells cars checked for codes, no codes. I purchased a cable from ross-tech and no throttle body code. But it did have a couple things and was hoping someone could tell me if they're related.


Chassis Type: 1K (1K0)
Scan: 01 02 03 08 09 0F 15 16 17 19 1C 25 36 42 44 46 52 56 62 72
7D
VIN: Mileage: 267160km-166005miles
00-Steering Angle Sensor -- Status: OK 0000
01-Engine -- Status: OK 0000
02-Auto Trans -- Status: OK 0000
03-ABS Brakes -- Status: OK 0000
08-Auto HVAC -- Status: OK 0000
09-Cent. Elect. -- Status: OK 0000
0F-Digital Radio -- Status: Malfunction 0010
15-Airbags -- Status: OK 0000
16-Steering wheel -- Status: OK 0000
17-Instruments -- Status: OK 0000
19-CAN Gateway -- Status: OK 0000
1C-Position Sensing -- Status: OK 0000
25-Immobilizer -- Status: OK 0000
36-Seat Mem. Drvr -- Status: OK 0000
42-Door Elect, Driver -- Status: OK 0000
44-Steering Assist -- Status: OK 0000
46-Central Conv. -- Status: OK 0000
52-Door Elect, Pass. -- Status: OK 0000
56-Radio -- Status: Malfunction 0010
62-Door, Rear Left -- Status: OK 0000
72-Door, Rear Right -- Status: OK 0000
7D-Aux. Heat -- Status: Malfunction 0010

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine Labels: 038-906-016-BEW.lbl
Part No SW: 03G 906 016 AC HW: 028 101 223 9
Component: R4 1,9L EDC G000DG 7551
Revision: --H02--- Serial number: VWZ7Z0F3540022
Coding: 0050078
Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
VCID: 64C7F682A710F11ED9-8030
No fault code found.
Readiness: 0 0 0 0 0
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 02: Auto Trans Labels: 02E-927-770.lbl
Part No SW: 02E 300 043 HW: 02E 927 770 AD
Component: GSG DSG 082 1126
Revision: 05508020 Serial number: 00001201051633
Coding: 0000020
Shop #: WSC 44551 111 44551
VCID: 51A92F56C8A274B682-8004
No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes Labels: 1K0-907-379-MK60-F.lbl
Part No SW: 1K0 907 379 AA HW: 1K0 907 379 AA
Component: ESP FRONT MK60 0102
Revision: 00H13001
Coding: 0021122
Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
VCID: 71E98FD668E254B6A2-8024
No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC Labels: 1K0-907-044.lbl
Part No: 1K0 907 044 BE
Component: ClimatronicPQ35 090 0808
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 6BD59DBE4ACEBE6698-803E
No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect. Labels: 3C0-937-049-23-H.lbl
Part No SW: 3C0 937 049 E HW: 3C0 937 049 E
Component: Bordnetz-SG H37 1002
Revision: 00H37000 Serial number: 00000000283332
Coding: 14018E234004150000140000001400000028770B5C
Shop #: WSC 09151 444 57467
VCID: 2B555DBE8A4E7E66D8-807E
Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1K1 955 119 C Labels: 1KX-955-119.CLB
Component: Wischer VW350 013 0402
Coding: 00063445
Shop #: WSC 09151
No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 0F: Digital Radio Labels: 8E0-035-593-SIR.lbl
Part No SW: 8E0 035 593 D HW: 8E0 035 593 D
Component: SDAR SIRIUS H03 0060
Revision: 00000000 Serial number: AUZ4Z7F5018942
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 2A5B58BA85B4676E23-807E
1 Fault Found:
02635 - Tuner Not Enabled/Activated
000 - -
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01100000
Fault Priority: 7
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 64
Mileage: 262628 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2000.00.00
Time: 06:40:04

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags Labels: 1K0-909-605.lbl
Part No SW: 1K0 909 605 P HW: 1K0 909 605 P
Component: 39 AIRBAG VW8R 032 7900
Revision: 03032000 Serial number: 0038FD04C33I
Coding: 0013113
Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
VCID: 397977F67012DCF65A-806C
Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1K0 959 339 E
Component: BF-Gewichtsens. 006 0005
Subsystem 2 - Serial number: 6332MSME0E2E2623E
Subsystem 3 - Serial number: 6342MSME0C6F061FR
Subsystem 4 - Serial number: 6351HSME08730613
Subsystem 5 - Serial number: 6361HSME09295F48K
Subsystem 6 - Serial number: 63727SME09071954
Subsystem 7 - Serial number: 63827SME09214629.
No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 16: Steering wheel Labels: 1K0-953-549-MY8.lbl
Part No SW: 1K0 953 549 AJ HW: 1K0 953 549 AJ
Component: J0527 034 0070
Coding: 0012021
Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
VCID: 7AFBA8FA359417EE13-802E
Subsystem 1 - Part No: XXXXXXXXXXX
Component: E0221 007 0050
No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments Labels: 1K0-920-xxx-17.lbl
Part No: 1K0 920 972 L
Component: KOMBIINSTRUMENT 3HL 4312
Coding: 0023203
Shop #: WSC 09151 067 57207
VCID: 35617BC65C0A3896BE-8060
No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway Labels: 1K0-907-530-V1.clb
Part No SW: 1K0 907 530 F HW: 1K0 907 951
Component: Gateway H10 0120
Revision: H10 Serial number: 28001061081117
Coding: 3F7F0B600F1002
Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
VCID: 2A5B58BA85B4676E23-807E
No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 1C: Position Sensing Labels: 1Kx-919-xxx-1C.lbl
Part No SW: 1K5 919 965 A HW: 1K5 919 965 A
Component: Kompass 005 0003
Revision: 00005000 Serial number: 1293324T1WHF01
Coding: 0000003
Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
VCID: 397977F67012DCF65A-806C
No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 25: Immobilizer Labels: 1K0-920-xxx-25.clb
Part No: 1K0 920 972 L
Component: IMMO 3HL 4312
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 35617BC65C0A3896BE-8060
No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 36: Seat Mem. Drvr Labels: 3C0-959-760.lbl
Part No SW: 3C0 959 760 B HW: 3C0 959 760 B
Component: Sitzverstellung 0701
Revision: 00003000 Serial number: 00000000000000
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 2C575EA28F40795ED1-8078
No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 42: Door Elect, Driver Labels: 1K0-959-701-MIN2.lbl
Part No: 1K0 959 701 K
Component: Tuer-SG 024 2377
Coding: 0001269
Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
VCID: 36637CCA410C338EB7-8062
No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 44: Steering Assist Labels: 1Kx-909-14x-44.clb
Part No: 1K1 909 144 J
Component: EPS_ZFLS Kl.5 D04 1606
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 326B40DAAD642FAE9B-8066
No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv. Labels: 1K0-959-433-MAX.clb
Part No SW: 1K0 959 433 AT HW: 1K0 959 433 AT
Component: 01 KSG PQ35 G2 010 0101
Revision: 00010000 Serial number: 00000000000000
Coding: 1B900E880106083F2904058FB0080F0480A540
Shop #: WSC 09151 444 57467
VCID: 020BD01A5D445F2E4B-8056
Subsystem 1 - Component: Sounder n.mounted
Subsystem 2 - Component: NGS n.mounted
Subsystem 3 - Component: IRUE n.mounted
No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 52: Door Elect, Pass. Labels: 1K0-959-702-MIN2.lbl
Part No: 1K0 959 702 K
Component: Tuer-SG 024 2377
Coding: 0001269
Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
VCID: 377D71CE4606CA86AC-8062
No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio Labels: 1K0-035-1xx-56.lbl
Part No SW: 1K0 035 180 C HW: 1K0 035 180 C
Component: Radio ZSW 016 0017
Revision: 00016000 Serial number: VWZ5Z7F6013016
Coding: 0040400
Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
VCID: 204FBA92F388AD3E7D-8074
1 Fault Found:
00668 - Supply Voltage Terminal 30
002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100010
Fault Priority: 3
Fault Frequency: 26
Reset counter: 177
Mileage: 263360 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2000.00.00
Time: 22:44:59

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 62: Door, Rear Left Labels: 1K0-959-703-GEN2.lbl
Part No: 1K0 959 703 D
Component: Tuer-SG 021 2434
Coding: 0000144
Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
VCID: 31694FD6A86214B6E2-8064
No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 72: Door, Rear Right Labels: 1K0-959-704-GEN2.lbl
Part No: 1K0 959 704 D
Component: Tuer-SG 021 2434
Coding: 0000144
Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
VCID: 326B40DAAD642FAE9B-8066
No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 7D: Aux. Heat Labels: 1K0-963-235.lbl
Part No SW: 1K0 963 235 E HW: 1K0 963 235 E
Component: PTC-Element 0404
Revision: 00800000 Serial number:
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 2D5153A6B45A7056C6-8078
1 Fault Found:
00361 - Heater Element for Auxiliary Heater (Z35)
014 - Defective
End-------------------------(Elapsed Time: 02:15)--------------------------



I'm assuming the radio code is the speaker that goes in and out. I don't really care about it. When i searched the Heater Element, it means my heater doesn't work. Turned on the heater this morning, it was plenty hot. So could that mean the glow plugs? Anyone experienced this weird stalling and fixed it?

Couple co-workers suggested getting a vaccum pump and test the fuel lines. They're thinking their might have been a pinhole in the fuel line and replacing the fuel pump overcame that but the hole got worst over time. So that's probably where i'm going next.

Stating the obvious...The heater code refers to an Auxiliary heater and is an electrical item buried under the dash.
Plenty of chat about that if you do a search. It does not mean that the coolant part wont get warm. It is a supplement to that since cold weather can make it slow to warm the cabin with just the coolant exchanger.

stalling could be a weak tandem pump

My car was acting like yours, but only when was very cold outside. Turns out it was the EGR "stuck" open; allowing too much exhaust back in the engine, chocking it. It doesn't matter what you do, it won't start for 15-20 minutes. I'm assuming it has a EGR valve positioning reset that brings it to normal position after 15-20 minutes? That was my case, you might not have the same issue. No CEL in dashboard.

Not sure if I am following this. Which fuel pump was replaced twice? The one in the tank or the tandem pump on the engine? If they have not replaced the pump in the tank I would look at that one as the problem

JETaah said:

Stating the obvious...The heater code refers to an Auxiliary heater and is an electrical item buried under the dash.
Plenty of chat about that if you do a search. It does not mean that the coolant part wont get warm. It is a supplement to that since cold weather can make it slow to warm the cabin with just the coolant exchanger.

Click to expand...

That explains why it takes a bit for the air to get warm. Been like that for years. Do I need to be concerned if I don't mind the extra time for warm air?

N.CaTDI said:

Not sure if I am following this. Which fuel pump was replaced twice? The one in the tank or the tandem pump on the engine? If they have not replaced the pump in the tank I would look at that one as the problem

Click to expand...

The pump in the tank was replaced twice. How would I go about checking the tandem pump? I should probably ask, how does the tandem pump fit into the big picture?

Tandum pump is cam shaft driven. Pop hood. Look at valve cover without the decoritive engine cover on. Tandum pump is on right (driver) side next to valve cover at end of cam shaft. Fuel is pumped to tandum pump by tank pump. Tandum pump is the fuel system pressurizing pump. It is also your vacuum pump. Check egr stuck open. Its most common.

I looked up how to check if the EGR is stuck open. I should be picking up a vacuum pump either today or tomorrow. Also, I had the EGR cleaned a couple months ago.

Or if I've been wanting to do an EGR and EGR cooler delete, might as well do it now?

foodking said:

Or if I've been wanting to do an EGR and EGR cooler delete, might as well do it now?

Click to expand...

That would take of that problem if it is EGR related

Since the only tools I have are for wood working and stuff around the house, this looks like it's going to cost me a pretty penny. Or at least a few. What I'm looking to do are:

clean throttle body (at least entertain the dealership and see if anything is stuck there)
EGR and EGR cooler delete (including cleaning the intake manifold)
oil change while I'm at it

Things I'm looking to pick up
ratchet set
torque wrench
EGR delete kit
oil drain pan and container

For the torque wrench, any suggestions on what size? Eventually, i hope to pick up 1/4, 3/8, and 1/2 but which one should i start with? I'm most likely going to grab either craftsman or stanley. Ratchet set, I'm assuming i can pick up anything.

EGR kit, anyone used http://www.ebay.com/itm/VW-TDI-MKV-...gen-/121433325131?hash=item1c45fd7e4b&vxp=mtr before?

Check if EGR not closing before tearing into all that and remember you'll need a tune along with EGR delete.
More likely to be the problem is failed check valve in the tandem pump. Easy test is to clamp-off the return hose for the night, then remove in the morning. You can replace the pump or add an inline check valve.
These are all well documented, so do a search. A BRM/BEW guru would know all of this, so gotta question his guru status.

I'd like to thank everyone for the help and feedback I've gotten.

I guess i should try to figure out the cause of my starting problem before throwing potential fixes, but that won't stop be from asking more about EGR delete.

So when I looked up EGR deletes and tunes, it sounds like I would have to bring the car into a specialized shop. Can I do the tune myself with VCDS? Couldn't find any information on doing a tune yourself. Also, without a tune, you get a CEL. Would I care? I'm a software guy, sometimes there's warnings you don't care about and ignore. Didn't know if it would be the same here.

About clamping the return hose to the tandem pump, can i use http://www.lowes.com/pd_516216-281-1904316___?productId=50160691&pl=1&Ntt=clamp or would i need something a little more specialized.
http://www.lowes.com/pd_516216-281-1904316___?productId=50160691&pl=1&Ntt=clamp

Testing the tandem pump, i found this thread, http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=2286266&postcount=7
it says to start the engine and use a stop watch. Should I be doing this after the cat sits for 8.5hrs and expect it to stall or when it's still warm?

DanG is one of the best sources on fuel systems, but you don't need to run those tests. Your pumps are working fine but tandem is losing prime. Just buy one of these from any auto parts store for testing:

Forgot to mention: the Aux Heater repair is just a matter of re-soldering some connections and removing the unit is pretty easy. Do a search on the aux heater codes for more details.

MyAvocation said:

DanG is one of the best sources on fuel systems, but you don't need to run those tests. Your pumps are working fine but tandem is losing prime. Just buy one of these from any auto parts store for testing:

Click to expand...

no idea what kind of clamp is pictured, but a coworker is going to bring me a clamp the toyota dealership left on his fuel line. I'm planning on taking a video of before and after clamping. Any pointers on what I should me trying to capture?

Purpose of the clamp is to prove tandem pump losing prime (defective internal check valve). This is the least invasive method that comes to mind. Procedure is to clamp the hose which returns to the tank immediately after car is parked for the night or similar period. Then remove moments before attempting to start the motor. One of DanG's threads outlines which is the return hose (located at the fuel filter manifold). Be careful to match photos of the correct filter manifold, as the mkv offered two variations.

It may be possible to replace the failed valve, but I'm not certain of this. You'll need to do some digging in this forum for the answer.

Oh. Sorry. I confused it with other ways to test the tandem pump. Well, the past 2 mornings the car started ok. Wonder if this is going to complicate things. I'll be sure to clamp it and remove it before starting up.

So I've tried this out 3 times (2 return line from tandem pump, once the line to the tandem pump), all had the same results. Turn key, engine starts, engine stalls, crank for ~10secs, engine starts and keep going.

Before clamping, I've been driving the car for at least an hour. I would clamp and let the car sit for 13+hrs. The wife and I both noticed that I didn't have to crank as long to get it going. Didn't even get the oil pressure warning.

What does this mean?

Possibly the injector o-rings?

printed out DanG's PD fuel issues pdf and will start going through that after this weekend. But i wanted to share something interesting.

Monday night I filled up the gas tank, the gas station pump malfunctioned and diesel started spilling out all over the place. Had to pull the nozzle out and click the handle to stop the flow. Since then the engine hasn't stalled. it's constantly stalled after sitting for 8.5hrs+, so i'm scratching my head.

10/26/15 ~10PM engine off
10/27/15 5:23AM start - no stall (7.5hrs so expected)
10/27/15 6:13AM engine off
10/27/15 3:25PM start - no stall (9hrs)
10/28/15 4:30PM engine off
10/29/15 5:24AM start - no stall (11hrs)

a side note, do i have to worry about diesel fuel getting all over the car near and below the gas cover? the tire was covered with diesel so the gas station gave me a free car wash but i can still smell diesel and my garage smells as well.