Show what you tow!

Fix_Until_Broke

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 8, 2004
Location
Menomonee Falls, Wisconsin, USA
TDI
03 Jetta, 03 TT TDI
I don't disagree that this is causing more stress on the engine internals.

Hopefully the PD150 pistons, ceramic coating and R520's will keep the pistons alive compared to the stock ALH ones with PP502's that I broke (which was up at 2000 RPM's and I believe due to the bowl edge melting from long injection duration). Rod bearings were "tired" for sure when I took them out at 170k miles :) but no damage to crank or rods.

A couple observations from this...or myths to dispel I guess

1) "The 17/22 will surge at high boost/low RPM" - there's a little flutter of the boost gauge at 20+ psi at 1600 RPM, but no sounds of surge or dropping out. Likely normal intake pulses.

2) "The 17/22 hotside is too small and restrictive" - most of the time exhaust pressures are below intake pressures. Now this isn't the case at 4000+ RPM's, but that's not where I drive.

3) "The OEM SMIC is crap" - IAT's were never more than 20F over ambient



I'm sure that there are better performing turbos out there all around, just showing what is possible with this popular turbo, or more specifically, the turbo is not the limiting factor.
 

deejaaa

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2007
Location
Baytown, Texas
TDI
FOR SALE, 2002 Jetta GLS, 5 speed
here is what i picked up this morning for $300.00:






Cyclemate 2000 with Maxim hubcaps, 19 cubic ft. of space, 38" wide, weight 145 lbs., box length 42" with some external storage area in front of the main box.

It could use a coat of paint but i just buffed it after i took these pics and it looks a lot better.
will add a flag because i can't see it on the road or backing up.
here's them new:
http://www.wikco.com/cyclemate.html
 

TDIJetta99

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 17, 2005
Location
Port Jervis, New York, USA
TDI
03... Faster than yours =]
I don't disagree that this is causing more stress on the engine internals.

Hopefully the PD150 pistons, ceramic coating and R520's will keep the pistons alive compared to the stock ALH ones with PP502's that I broke (which was up at 2000 RPM's and I believe due to the bowl edge melting from long injection duration). Rod bearings were "tired" for sure when I took them out at 170k miles :) but no damage to crank or rods.

A couple observations from this...or myths to dispel I guess

1) "The 17/22 will surge at high boost/low RPM" - there's a little flutter of the boost gauge at 20+ psi at 1600 RPM, but no sounds of surge or dropping out. Likely normal intake pulses.

2) "The 17/22 hotside is too small and restrictive" - most of the time exhaust pressures are below intake pressures. Now this isn't the case at 4000+ RPM's, but that's not where I drive.

3) "The OEM SMIC is crap" - IAT's were never more than 20F over ambient



I'm sure that there are better performing turbos out there all around, just showing what is possible with this popular turbo, or more specifically, the turbo is not the limiting factor.
Your rod bearings were crap from the lugging.. So was the piston damage.. I was running max duration for almost 100k with the 99's old engine (11mm/PP502), and the 3 pistons that survived the valve spring failure were perfect (other than the dents from FOD).. So were the rod bearings on those 3 cylinders.. 238k at the time of failure..

As far as surging goes, it's not nearly as violent with the SMIC due to the reduced volume, but the gauge flutter is from mild surge.. It never seems to be bad enough to do any damage unless you're seeing the gauge move 5psi+ up/down.. The 17/22 is a loud turbo on the intake side..


The exhaust side doesn't really become the restriction until you're in the 200whp neighborhood..
 

not2shabby

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2013
Location
Westerville, Ohio
TDI
2010 Jetta Sportwagen
The stepson and I went to Perry State Forest to do a little dirtbiking. I figure the bikes and trailer weighed around 900 lbs. I have a DSG and shifted manually while towing, keeping the revs between 1800 and 22-2400 and it pulled it easily up and down the hills of SE Ohio.

 

nayr

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2013
Location
Colorado
TDI
2014 Audi Q7
Westfallia didn't let me down over memorial weekend; well my 75 Westy did but I unloaded it into rented a SpaceTrailer for the weekend.
Me, Wife, Son + 100lb dog in the TDI and all the gear from the bus loaded it up heavy in trailer (~800lbs of gear) and headed up into the mountains, camp was just shy of 9k ft..

Car and trailer did excellent, towing really woke the motor up with only 4k miles on it.. With the trailer it averaged out to be of little impact however the MPG's went up ~3 after towing. Could hardly tell it was back there.. road very smooth even at 80mph.
I was so happy I went ahead and placed an order for a SpaceTrailer of my own; cant wait til I can go pick it up.
 
Last edited:

kjclow

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 26, 2003
Location
Charlotte, NC
TDI
2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
Nice trailer. Wish I'd known about it last year before I bought the kayak trailer.
 

fabed23

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2012
Location
Western NC
TDI
2000 Jetta ALH - 5spd
1983 Scamper 13' behind the 01 Golf.
Trailer weighs 1100# as towed.


Home made hidden hitch receiver.


Towing behavior was excellent, but as we were heading west into the teeth of that hurricane flood mess last week, dragging the trailer through the air at 60MPH ground speed, plus 40kts headwind, was driving the oil temp up & up. Had to slow down to 55MPH to keep oil temp below 230F.

On the way home a few days later, set the cruise at 62MPH, oil temp stayed 210-220, boost was only 6-8, fuel econ was 29.8MPG.
Next up: install the elec. brake controller (just to be safe) and upgrade the oil cooler (just to be safe).
I love the Scamp and setup. :D
 

cherireinke

Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2013
Location
Salem, Oregon
TDI
2003
I'm turning to all of your TDI experts. :D I have searched the forums and haven't found the right answer. I did find a couple of local guys on there, and they were nice, but didn't get any answers. Called four shops and no one can help. I emailed three shops online.
I have a 2003 Jetta TDI, manual and we are going to tow a teardrop to Wisconsin and back. I was told by many sources that there is not an airbag that would work nor is there an affordable spring option that is much better than the stock option.
Can anyone help me? What do I need to make sure I have in place before we leave next week? My car sits pretty low already. The only suggestion that I have received is that I should go with spacers.
Thoughts? Do I also need an oil cooler and where is the best place to get that?
Cheri
 

dremd

Veteran Member
Joined
May 31, 2007
Location
South Louisiana
TDI
06 sprinter. 03 jetta wagon premium with 6 speed ALH swap, 14 JSW
I'm turning to all of your TDI experts. :D I have searched the forums and haven't found the right answer. I did find a couple of local guys on there, and they were nice, but didn't get any answers. Called four shops and no one can help. I emailed three shops online.
I have a 2003 Jetta TDI, manual and we are going to tow a teardrop to Wisconsin and back. I was told by many sources that there is not an airbag that would work nor is there an affordable spring option that is much better than the stock option.
Can anyone help me? What do I need to make sure I have in place before we leave next week? My car sits pretty low already. The only suggestion that I have received is that I should go with spacers.
Thoughts? Do I also need an oil cooler and where is the best place to get that?
Cheri

I'd vote for the wagon springs (moog is the normal source I believe), or the in spring air bags long before air shocks, but air shocks do work ok.
 

LOUDERMAN

Veteran Member
Joined
May 11, 2012
Location
Mesa, AZ
TDI
2010 2dr Golf TDI, 6MT
Seems something like that would be damn handy to have! I'de get one myself if I wasn't dead-set on a small teardrop. I'd also LOVE to have the cash to drop on a Westfalia hitch, but most likely I'll be removing my muffler and installing a curt hitch for the GTI.
 

SilverGhost

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2005
Location
Back in So Flo - St Lucie
TDI
'05 Golf - totaled :(, wife's '13 Beetle - buy back, TDIless
Airlift from Summit Racing for a mid '80s Chevy van front coil springs. I'll post the link when I get home. I have them in my car.

Jason
 

Geordi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2002
Location
Somewhere between Heaven and Hell. But it is reall
TDI
14 JSW DSG, 03 Wagon 01M, 400k and IPT performance auto!
Summit racing - kit AIR-60822 is a set of in-the-coil load leveling airbags.

I installed them in my 03 wagon, and they work great to eliminate the soft rear springs. I had replaced the springs with ones from Autozone, and even the new ones were exactly the same as the ones I removed. Now, with the bags at 10-12 psi, the ride is great and the ride height doesn't sag with light loading.

The trick is to inflate them BEFORE loading the back end, these act to "lock" the spring height, they will not re-add height if you try adding pressure after loading up.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/air-60822
 

Geordi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2002
Location
Somewhere between Heaven and Hell. But it is reall
TDI
14 JSW DSG, 03 Wagon 01M, 400k and IPT performance auto!
Oh, BTW:



That is 12 standard concrete blocks, and 16 solid half-blocks, for a total of about 1100 lbs right over the rear axle of my wagon.



Notice the rear sagging? Neither do I. It IS a little low, but that is partly because I didn't fill the bags to full capacity BEFORE putting all those bricks in. Oops. It rode pretty good on the way home though, didn't bottom out like I expected.

My TDI does want to have a long conversation with me however, something about using it as a truck being against the geneva conventions.
 

cherireinke

Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2013
Location
Salem, Oregon
TDI
2003
Towing

Summit racing - kit AIR-60822 is a set of in-the-coil load leveling airbags.
I installed them in my 03 wagon, and they work great to eliminate the soft rear springs. I had replaced the springs with ones from Autozone, and even the new ones were exactly the same as the ones I removed. Now, with the bags at 10-12 psi, the ride is great and the ride height doesn't sag with light loading.
The trick is to inflate them BEFORE loading the back end, these act to "lock" the spring height, they will not re-add height if you try adding pressure after loading up.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/air-60822
Thanks for your help! So even though they don't say they are made for the 2003 Jetta TDI, they will work? I asked Summit Racing through their chat and they said they wouldn't work. I don't mean to sound dumb, but I don't want to order the wrong thing.
BUT, it looks like you don't have any trouble hauling anything in your TDI!

You have a GLS? Not sure if there is a difference in the suspension between your TDI and mine.

Thanks!
Cheri
 
Last edited:

LMJ

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2010
Location
Virginia
TDI
2000 VW Golf
I'm turning to all of your TDI experts. :D I have searched the forums and haven't found the right answer. I did find a couple of local guys on there, and they were nice, but didn't get any answers. Called four shops and no one can help. I emailed three shops online.
I have a 2003 Jetta TDI, manual and we are going to tow a teardrop to Wisconsin and back. I was told by many sources that there is not an airbag that would work nor is there an affordable spring option that is much better than the stock option.
Can anyone help me? What do I need to make sure I have in place before we leave next week? My car sits pretty low already. The only suggestion that I have received is that I should go with spacers.
Thoughts? Do I also need an oil cooler and where is the best place to get that?
Cheri
Look up Air Lift 1000. Bags that are inserted into springs.
Airlift company.com
 

Geordi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2002
Location
Somewhere between Heaven and Hell. But it is reall
TDI
14 JSW DSG, 03 Wagon 01M, 400k and IPT performance auto!
Thanks for your help! So even though they don't say they are made for the 2003 Jetta TDI, they will work? I asked Summit Racing through their chat and they said they wouldn't work. I don't mean to sound dumb, but I don't want to order the wrong thing.
BUT, it looks like you don't have any trouble hauling anything in your TDI!

You have a GLS? Not sure if there is a difference in the suspension between your TDI and mine.

Thanks!
Cheri
Hey Cheri!

LMJ is correct, that kit that I linked is the Airlift 1000 series. Summit is just the retailer, I actually called and spoke with one of the engineers at AirLift and figured it out with them. What they want is measurements of the springs, both interior dimension and length while the car is sitting normally.

The measurements I got were translated into that kit. If I was going to do it again, I would measure with the spring partly unloaded... Possibly even with the tire hanging in midair. As they are, the bag has a little bit of room to move up-and-down inside the coil when they are deflated. I will (at some point) make some rubber pads to fill in that space and maybe then the bag might actually be able to lift the car's suspension. As it sits right now however, they work great and I do like the ride. (maybe I should just leave well enough alone, hey?)

As for the suspensions, the rear springs on all the Jettas should be exactly the same, that is why a lot of people buy the Wagon springs for their sedan models, and I haven't heard anybody complaining about needing to mod the springs to make them fit.

Now, on the airbags - You will need to drop the rear shocks on both sides so that you can remove the coils from the car. This isn't hard to do, but installing the bags will take a fair bit of muscle to do it. You can't go through the sides or through the bottom while they are installed. Don't even bother.

I put the coils into a bench vise (just to hold it in place) and using a vacuum pump to keep the bag completely deflated, I was able to force them into the center of the coils. You will want the air valves at the BOTTOM of the bag / coils, and you may want to purchase some extra air line and fittings from Home Depot before you get started - they don't send much with the kit.

Once installed, don't run the bags with less than 5 lbs of air in them, or the spring can rub too much on the outside and might damage them.
Good luck!
 

SilverGhost

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2005
Location
Back in So Flo - St Lucie
TDI
'05 Golf - totaled :(, wife's '13 Beetle - buy back, TDIless
Sorry Geordi, but they can go through the side. That is the way I installed them, as well as the couple people I got the idea from. It makes a huge difference that the airbag is hot as it softens up and makes squeezing in much easier. I put mine on boiling water for a couple minutes right before installing them. Just make sure the suspension is hanging so the coil is extended. I sprayed wet silicon lube on the coils and bag to help it along. Someone (mayb FUB?) went into detail on this, maybe even earlier on in this thread.

Jason
 

TDIJetta99

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 17, 2005
Location
Port Jervis, New York, USA
TDI
03... Faster than yours =]
Do you have have stock springs on your TDI or did you mod it for towing?

Cheri
Regular springs.. I have some 1.5" blocks I put in the back when I'm going to tow something with a lot of tongue weight but they weren't in here.. the tongue was a little on the light side this time maybe 175lbs...

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2
 

Geordi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2002
Location
Somewhere between Heaven and Hell. But it is reall
TDI
14 JSW DSG, 03 Wagon 01M, 400k and IPT performance auto!
I had those twist-in metal springjacks too... Didn't like them. I also tried some rubber ones that worked better for lifting the rear, but I don't know if they were over-stressing one ring of the coils or not. The airbags are better, at least they lift / stabilize the entire spring equally.

As for shoving the bag through the side or putting them in boiling water, my instructions didn't say anything about hot water... But I don't like the idea of possibly damaging them or thinning them out. The directions did say to flatten them out and use the rubber cap to keep them sealed and flat. I just found it easier to use the vacuum pump to keep the bags flat.
 
Last edited:

not2shabby

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2013
Location
Westerville, Ohio
TDI
2010 Jetta Sportwagen
Thanks! It is fun, but it wears me out too. Perry's trails sucked, they were filled with huge gravel, slimey-slippery where there was dirt, and not marked for crap. Next time we're going to Wayne!
 

ihatespeed

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2013
Location
holbrook, ma
TDI
11 tdi wagon 6mt 15 golf 6mt (Wife's) 2000 Ford 350 7.3l 6mt 4x4 (technically a TDI)
http://s1274.photobucket.com/user/greg_dawson1/library/

Just returned from a trip from maine to north carolina, 3 motorcycles on a 5x8 aluminum trailer, about 2000 lbs, with 3 average adults, riding gear, tools and luggage in the car, 4000 feet into the mountains, car ran great, towed well, stopped ok, got a trip average of 35 mpg
 
Top