2019 Chevy Silverado 3.0L I-6 diesel

jbg said:

Oilhammer,

Would you happen to know where this article is? i was searching for information on the evolution of the VM R428 but came up short.

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It was I think somewhere on the GM Powertrain site (linked above). I forget where, and I assume it as an old article and may not be cached on their server.

kjclow said:

What's the outlook in Europe for diesels?

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At least for Germany, not so good for subcompacts, so-so for compacts, for everything from midsize up, they are going to dominate for a long time.

It's probably a good idea to crunch the data for 2017 straight from the KBA. Some takeaways from their 2017 data:

• 74.7% of Volvos are diesel.
• 88.6% of the XC60 are diesel
• But only 36.6% of the V40
• 45.6% of Volkswagens are diesel
• 33.3% of the Golf (of 228,227 Golfs sold in 2017)
• ...but only 25% of Jettas (76 Jettas sold in all of 2017!)
• ...but 82% of Passats
• 69.5% of Arteons
• 75.6% of Sharans
• 100% of Touaregs
• 54.9% of Tiguans
• and 95.1% of T6 vans
• but only 9.1% of Polos
• Toyota isn't a big diesel brand: Only 5.5% total
• 6.6% for the RAV4
• 98.4% for the Landcruiser though...
• 66.1% of Subaru Legacies sold were diesel
• 74.7% of Cayennes were diesels
• 63.3% of Macans
• 30.2% of Panameras
• Mercedes has a 53% diesel share
• 75% for the CLS
• 72.6% for the E-Class
• 99.9% for the Sprinter
• Maserati has a 58.2% diesel share
• 66% for the Levante
• Land Rover has 87.4% diesel
• The model with the lowest diesel share is the Range Rover (78.7%), but to that you'd have to add another 2.2% diesel hybrids
• Kia has 22.9% diesel share
• The Sorento has 100.0% diesel share, although they offer a gasser
• Jeep has 61,4% diesel share
• The Renegade is the lowest with only 44.5%
• The Cherokee is the highest with 98%
• Jaguar has a 74.8% diesel share
• 91.2% for the F-Pace
• 50% for the E-Pace
• Infiniti has 38.5% diesels
• 88.4% for the QX30
• but none for the QX70
• Hyundai has a 17% diesel share
• 95.5% for the Santa Fe
• 2.5% for the i20
• Ford has a 41.1% diesel share
• 100% for the Edge
• 2.9% for the B-Max
• BMW has a 57.6% diesel share
• 89.5% for the X3
• 77.8% for the 5-series
• 76% for the 3-series
• but only 33% for the 1-series
• Bentley has a 21.1% diesel share
• ...thanks to the Bentayga, which is their only diesel and has a 58.2% diesel share
• Audi has a 55.5% diesel share
• ...thanks to the Q7 at 92.9%, which doesn't even include the e-tron diesel hybrid, which is another 6.2%, for a total of 99.1%.
• The TT is the lowest, with only 7.3%
• Alfa Romeo has a 38.8% diesel share
• Giulia: 49.8%
• MiTo = 16.5%

...no huge surprises here.

Thanks for the info. Makes me unhappy that we can't get any of those products on this side of the permanent puddle. With the exception of the few BMWs and Jags.

This will be the replacement for my Touareg TDI that I sold back to VW. I've been trying to read all I can on it and everything points to an in house design.

IndigoBlueWagon said:

That article's comments are irritating because the include several posts referring to the 2.8L Duramax as a VM Motori engine. The only thing the Duramax has in common with the VM engine is displacement. It's entirely different, from a different continent, even. But for some reason people think it's the same.

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The new 2.8 Duramax is a modified version A428 VM Motori, but it's built by GM. The Liberty used the older R428, just like the older Colorado and Holden used overseas.

From Wikipedia: GM used to own Detroit Diesel which bought VM Motori in 1995. Then DaimlerChrysler bought Detroit Diesel in 2000 thus owning VM Motori as a result. Somewhere in this timeframe is when DaimlerChrysler used the VM Motori 2.8 in the Liberty (and other products sold elsewhere in the world). From 2003 - 2007 Penske bought VM Motori then sold part of it back to GM. In 2009 Fiat merged with Chrysler. Fiat Powertrain acquired first Penske's part of VM Motori in 2011 then GM's part in 2013.

Complicated! But it explains how there can be a common design heritage to products ostensibly built by two different manufacturers. There are plenty of other examples.

oilhammer said:

The person I asked about this engine at the NAIAS this weekend knew about it but had very little info. Her cancer breath was so revolting I was not able to stand talking to her beyond just a couple questions though. Seriously, Chevy, don't put representatives for your product out there that smell like an ashtray and paint peeling halitosis. I know rednecks like your trucks, but not all of us are addicted to nicotine.

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LOL. I sympathize 100%, especially as an ex-smoker. Except, I'd probably be a prick and actually say something to her if it were that bad and she is the brand ambassador.

aja8888 said:

I'll bet it's expensive, but all trucks are these days.

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Haha, tell me about it. Which is why I get to settle for a 23 year old $4100 truck.

The thought of an I6 in a truck is very appealing though. I mean, other than a 6BT anyways.

Posted on another forum: From the order spec sheet, HP for diesel is 282, TQ is 450 lb and 28 hwy mpg.

I was under the impression that the Cadillac diesel program involved a 2.9 liter VM Motori design, that evolved into the 3.0 EcoDiesel used in the Ram 1500 and Grand Cherokee.

An inline-6 would package oddly into Cadillac's products, as well...

"VM Motori design" seems to be a catch-all these days. I read that the 3.0L inline engine was originally destined for a Cadillac. I don't know if VM made an inline 6. Nevertheless, we're happy to see another diesel on the road.

I went to a GM class last week on their new diesels, and the guy had no info on this new engine, other than they were "forbidden" from going into an area of the plant where they were being assembled.

Of course, the guy was a complete moron. Acted like a variable displacement oil pump was some sort of cutting edge voodoo magic

And kept referring to the 1.6L as "a little bitty engine that don't make a lot of power", to which I called up my 4th grade math and schooled him that it makes more power per liter than the mighty V8, of which he seemed to adore. It may have been he assumed the room was fool of mouth breathing knuckle draggers (of which there were plenty in attendance).

Oh, I did finally get one tidbit out of him: the fuel filter interval is set into the flexible service system. So it isn't necessarily a fixed thing, but to the best of my knowledge maxes out at 30k miles. They also moved the fuel filter on the big trucks, and the 1.6L requires a half inch extension wedged against the filter housing and the body to prevent it from cracking during removal. Seriously. There are even pictures in the official GM service lit clearing showing an extension and where to place it. LMAO...

I've been intrigued by the 1.6L in the Cruze. Drove a manual last year and it was very nice. But things like the potential issue with fuel filter service that makes me want to stick with companies like VW, Mercedes, and BMW, who have experience building their own diesels for a larger (Euro) market.

oilhammer said:

I went to a GM class last week on their new diesels, and the guy had no info on this new engine, other than they were "forbidden" from going into an area of the plant where they were being assembled.

Of course, the guy was a complete moron. Acted like a variable displacement oil pump was some sort of cutting edge voodoo magic

And kept referring to the 1.6L as "a little bitty engine that don't make a lot of power", to which I called up my 4th grade math and schooled him that it makes more power per liter than the mighty V8, of which he seemed to adore. It may have been he assumed the room was fool of mouth breathing knuckle draggers (of which there were plenty in attendance).

Oh, I did finally get one tidbit out of him: the fuel filter interval is set into the flexible service system. So it isn't necessarily a fixed thing, but to the best of my knowledge maxes out at 30k miles. They also moved the fuel filter on the big trucks, and the 1.6L requires a half inch extension wedged against the filter housing and the body to prevent it from cracking during removal. Seriously. There are even pictures in the official GM service lit clearing showing an extension and where to place it. LMAO...

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Sounds like GM has learned nothing about placement of service items in 40 years! I remember my 77 nova with the 305. Couldn't get the last two plugs on the passenger side without disconnecting the AC compressor. Fuel filter was about the size of a cigarette filter and placed in the fuel line where it attached to the carb. Never could figure out how to change that thing. Oil filter always sealed tight and I usually ended up taking it off with an adjustable wrench.

Not as bad as the 1975 Chev Monza 2+2 with the V8. Had to loosen the motor mounts and lift the engine a bit to get the threads on the #8 plug to bite.

I wanted the new 3.0L 1500 to replace my Touareg, but have no idea when it's going to be released. Bought a 2019 GMC 2500HD Duramax. Oil and fuel filters on the L5P are easy to change.

Silverado diesel pricing

For the Silverado

Moving up from 2.7L 4 to diesel will cost $3890
5.3L V8 to diesel is $2495

Seems reasonable.

I think I am commited to older vehicles. Cancelled collision and comp on 10 Forester and 08 R350 today. I also despise personal property tax. Down to $450/yr on 3 vehicles. Those 2 plus 05 Passat.

Oberkanone said:

For the Silverado
Moving up from 2.7L 4 to diesel will cost $3890
5.3L V8 to diesel is $2495
Seems reasonable.

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That does seem reasonable

Oberkanone said:

For the Silverado
Moving up from 2.7L 4 to diesel will cost $3890
5.3L V8 to diesel is $2495
Seems reasonable.

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Yes, except that you've already had to "start" a couple "levels" up. So if you want that engine, you're more like $10k into the base price of the truck.

Which sucks because it limits the diesel for those who would likely appreciate it the most. So we poor saps just get the 4.3L V6.

That would be a tough sell for me when the 2.7 makes 310 hp and 350 lb-ft. Not bad for a 4 banger. Plus peak tq from 1500 to 4000 rpm. I'm not sure you'd ever get enough fuel savings to offset the price differential(maybe in the rare places that diesel is cheaper than gas).

If you look at prices for used diesel pickups compared to similar gassers you get more than the upcharge back at resale. Values on gasser pickups drop like rocks.

And if you're concerned about fuel costs, it doesn't seem that a 5,500 lb. truck is a good place to start.

I bought a 6000 lb diesel truck largely because of fuel savings and towing capability. I see the point about resale, but the payment amount matters for a lot of people. A Ferrari F40 might have amazing resale, but that's not going to help me much with payments.

Well, resale does help you on lease payments, but that doesn't help you if you want to keep it.

turbobrick240 said:

That would be a tough sell for me when the 2.7 makes 310 hp and 350 lb-ft. Not bad for a 4 banger. Plus peak tq from 1500 to 4000 rpm. I'm not sure you'd ever get enough fuel savings to offset the price differential(maybe in the rare places that diesel is cheaper than gas).

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Except that the newer GM 4 cyl are riddled with problems, and that engine is based on one of those. When the rear main seal blows out and the engine starves for oil and locks up, it makes 0 hp and 0 tq. I suspect the 2.7L will have some issues of its own. Not to say the new diesel won't, though.

Some of us just LIKE diesels, and we needn't make some rational justification to want one.

That's fair. I'd rather have the diesel too. What's another 4k when you're shelling out close to 40k for a truck, right?

I thought the 2.7 was more or less a clean sheet design. I know it was designed specifically as a truck engine. It has some interesting features like cylinder deactivation which I hadn't heard of in a 4 cyl. before.

We'll see how it does. I suspect the gas V8s will still dominate the mall crawler pickup crowd.

But again, the packaging sucks. If you want a long bed pickup, for 2019, you get the V6. That's it. That may change as the models progress, but right now, pretty much all the manufacturers are assuming you want a giant cab with a stunted little useless bed. In other words, a huge, long, ugly, thirsty sedan.

oilhammer said:

Just to compare, if you look closely you can see the two 2.8L 4 cyl (GM and VM) are essentially the same basic design:

http://www.gmpowertrain.com/engines/2-8l-lwn.html

http://www.vmmotori.com/4-cilindri/automotive-en/4-cilindri.html

Somewhere on the net I read a good article on all the changes GM made (as well as changes VM has made since we saw them in the Liberty). They seem to be independently refining the basic design.

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GM owned part of VM Motori, before selling it to Fiat,
I am sure they took a good deal of IP into their diesel engine development program.
https://www.wardsauto.com/technology/after-killing-vm-motori-program-gm-takes-cadillac-diesel-house
https://www.autonews.com/article/20...s-remainder-of-diesel-maker-vm-motori-from-gm

oilhammer said:

We'll see how it does. I suspect the gas V8s will still dominate the mall crawler pickup crowd.
But again, the packaging sucks. If you want a long bed pickup, for 2019, you get the V6. That's it. That may change as the models progress, but right now, pretty much all the manufacturers are assuming you want a giant cab with a stunted little useless bed. In other words, a huge, long, ugly, thirsty sedan.

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I know, the 57" bed on the RAM is tiny vs the 69" on my silverado.

Still wondering if Cummins will try trimming down their 6.7 into a 3 or 4 cylinder... 3.3L 3 cylinder would add enough power for a small Dakota return.

Cummins has made a 4 cyl based on the same general design as the I6 for decades.

But they are far too beastly really for most folks. They work well for commercial use though.

Actually had a customer here who had a Dakota body set on an '80s Ford F250 frame with that 4 cyl Cummins engine and 6sp ZF transmission. Funny when you first see a Dakota pulling a big gooseneck construction trailer then you hear it and see the 8-bolt 16" wheels.

woofie2 said:

Still wondering if Cummins will try trimming down their 6.7 into a 3 or 4 cylinder... 3.3L 3 cylinder would add enough power for a small Dakota return.

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I don't think a 3 cyl. would be a wise move in the the American truck segment, no matter how capable it might be. But, I would much rather have a ~3 liter I4 or I6 CR Cummins in a dodge/ram truck than the VM Motori mill, no doubt.

Edit: Apparently, the Cummins ISF 2.8 4 cyl. is made in China and pretty much crap, so I wouldn't want one of those.

oilhammer said:

We'll see how it does. I suspect the gas V8s will still dominate the mall crawler pickup crowd.

But again, the packaging sucks. If you want a long bed pickup, for 2019, you get the V6. That's it. That may change as the models progress, but right now, pretty much all the manufacturers are assuming you want a giant cab with a stunted little useless bed. In other words, a huge, long, ugly, thirsty sedan.

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And would I be wrong if I said that the above type of vehicle OH describes is mostly driven with one passenger and not much cargo on a daily basis?

Yup, sitting in our parking lot right now there are probably a dozen of these, mine included. At least 50% of it's life so far is with one driver and no payload. Another 30% is running around town for small things with the two of us. That remaining 20% is why we have a truck. hauling stuff to the dump. Getting mulch for the yard. Loading up for camping, kayaking, and biking trips. Loading the thing to the gills with crap for the granddaughter and then driving 14 hours to give it to her.