Potential of Buying low mile 96 Passat

BioFuelsDude · Nov 3, 2007

Hello.

I've been posting a little here and there and I've been diesel nuts for a few years now. Well the time has come finally to break down and do the diesel thing. This car has 55K on it and I'm getting an awesome deal for it. Carfax is pending but other that I should be in good hands. Stored in a heated garage,hardly driven, orginal owner, non smoker, 5 speed, 1996 Passat. Its a steal and no I wont tell the guys #

.

Anyways, once I have the car I will be bleeding the brakes, change the fuel filter,flush the trans, change the oil and fliter, and then finally changing the spark plugs (kidding). I wanna know if its a good idea to do the timing belt with this mileage and if so, what else should I do while I am doing it?

I'm just curious because I am a do it yourself guy hands down. I rarely take my cars to a mechanic. However, if I do need to bring it to a mechanic it will be to a close friend that works specifically on diesels. I wanna make sure once I receive the car that I can maintain it and then drive it maintance free for thousands of miles to come. Any help to a guy that will own his first ever VW TDI would be most helpful. Wish me luck!

Erik

P.S. I hope to chip it and getting a frybrid kit for it, so anyone that can chime in on ether or both subjects would be great!

cowboyjack · Nov 3, 2007

Congrats! I'd love to find a 96 Wagon in that sorta shape.

When I picked up a 98 Jetta with only 48,000 miles in 2006, it was STRONGLY recommended to me that I change the timing belt ASAP, as the belt ages over time and can crack. And we all know what happens when good timing belts go wild. Did the water pump as long as we were in there.

I also changed all the filters, the coolant, and all of the hoses I could get to, especially the vacuum hoses, but it sounds like you are all over that.

Also took the calipers apart and greased the bolts, pins, or whatever you call those doo-hickies, etc.

The Bentley manual did not answer all my questions, but at least helped me understand which ones to ask.

Ray_G · Nov 3, 2007

The belt for your car is a 60,000 or 5 year belt. Time to change it now. Also the clusters were known to fail, make sure your mileage on the car fax checks out. nice find.

paramedick · Nov 4, 2007

BioFuelsDude said:
P.S. I hope to chip it and getting a frybrid kit for it, so anyone that can chime in on ether or both subjects would be great!

The Rocketchip for the B4 is very nice. Stage depends on what level of mods you desire.

Forget the greasecar kit. You'll ruin the engine with it.

BioFuelsDude · Nov 5, 2007

Ray_G said:
The belt for your car is a 60,000 or 5 year belt. Time to change it now. Also the clusters were known to fail, make sure your mileage on the car fax checks out. nice find.

Awesome information, thanks for that. I am waiting right now to get the carfax back.This guy is taking forever but I know its because of his job. He travels 90% via plane across the world so that is why he never drove this car. Looks mint however carfax most be done before I put money in his face. Thanks for the heads up and looks like that timing belt is going out with the water pump. I am really going to be bonding with this car fast!

dieseldorf · Nov 5, 2007

Yeah, you need verification of the mileage. So many of these cars had cluster replacement and folks suffer from selective memory loss when it's time to sell the car

BioFuelsDude · Nov 5, 2007

cowboyjack said:
Congrats! I'd love to find a 96 Wagon in that sorta shape.

When I picked up a 98 Jetta with only 48,000 miles in 2006, it was STRONGLY recommended to me that I change the timing belt ASAP, as the belt ages over time and can crack. And we all know what happens when good timing belts go wild. Did the water pump as long as we were in there.

I also changed all the filters, the coolant, and all of the hoses I could get to, especially the vacuum hoses, but it sounds like you are all over that.

Also took the calipers apart and greased the bolts, pins, or whatever you call those doo-hickies, etc.

The Bentley manual did not answer all my questions, but at least helped me understand which ones to ask.

Less then 50K, years 96-98 Wagons.... forget that... they are so hard to find that I'm sure if you found one with that low of mileage you might see high 12's on the price tag. For sure it would be a rare sight, as I'm sure you know.

Why did you change hoses and which ones did you change? Did you do it because they degrade over time or do they go bad often? I'm just curious because I wondering what hoses to change. The caliper bolts or pins (depending on design) is a good idea and while I'm down there I will remove the rotors and have them cut if needed. Maybe do the pads while we are there, or check them anyways. I plan on driving the car to 200K+ and using this very Passat until I finish out my college career. Honestly that will be anywhere from 3-7 years depending on how far I go.

What is a Bently manual?? You mean the car company? Why use one on a VW? I'm confused. Sorry but I have not gotten use to all the lingo that everyone else uses on this forum. I'm working on it

.

Thanks for the extra hints and I hope to hear your reply.

Erik

BioFuelsDude · Nov 5, 2007

dieseldorf said:
Yeah, you need verification of the mileage. So many of these cars had cluster replacement and folks suffer from selective memory loss when it's time to sell the car

LoL. Well this guy is older and he seems honest but nevertheless dont judge a book by its cover. I know it will pay off in time just the excitement is itching at me and frankly I can't wait much longer

.

BioFuelsDude · Nov 5, 2007

paramedick said:
The Rocketchip for the B4 is very nice. Stage depends on what level of mods you desire.

Forget the greasecar kit. You'll ruin the engine with it.

Well level of modding will be at best minimal. I am a welding fabrication student as of now and I hope to go into mechanical engineering. So I want to design and make my own cat back. I am not sure if these diesel have cats, so chime in if you know because I have not looked under one yet.

About chipping. I am looking at whatever chip Illinios Dyno Center uses for their fuel mileage tune. Those provide more power when on the pedal and better mileage when off the pedal. I've heard that the newer TDI motors dont have restrictive air intakes; however, I do not know about these cars. Ether way honestly, I will be building my own out of PVC pipe and painting it black. I will keep the dimensions similiar to the stock unit but even out any kinks that are in the pipe off the turbo. I've also found out to use a oil free filter , so no open elements that are greased up. This is all in theory but honestly these are DIY mods that I know will be safe to do to the car. Futhermore, I know I can accomplish them wish ease.

As for veggie oil. I do plan to use greasecars kit, I personally do not like them although I know several succesful stories with them. I want to buy the frybrid one and get an at home filitration system. Hopefully I can get my girlfriend diesel crazy and have two cars running veggie oil at some point in the future.

What I do know is that the older TDIs are better to run WVO then on the older TDI cars. New emission equip. with higher fuel pressures does not do so well in modern engines running WVO. If you filter out particles and water ( doing it right!), get good oil (I will be getting only canola and soybean waste oil), and inject at the proper temps you should be okay if setup properly. Most people think its just "dump it in and run". Unforunatly that is not the case.

Overall, I have beat the veggie oil and biofuel topic so bad that it hurts. Now is the time for me to do this more then ever because after researching alternatives fuels and energy for close to 5 years now I have decided not to just make it a lifestyle and a career. I wanna eventually become completly oil free, if that ever is possible. I feel independence is what our country was all about from the begging. We sold out to foreign oil through local oil giants a long time ago. While the nation may not have shifted into a oil free direction, I will. Sounds dreamy to some;nevertheless, I wanna make it a reality.

Sorry for the rant. Hope to hear from you!

Erik

r90sKirk · Nov 5, 2007

Erik,

Congrats on the find, like DD stated though make sure the odometer hasn't been changed out before you get too excited about a low mileage car.

RocketChip will provide awesome chip tuning for your B4.

To reiterate Paramedick, do yourself a favor and don't run filtered WVO in this car. It will ruin the engine and you won't see those several thousand miles you were looking foward to, at least not WITHOUT a rebuild.

Kirk

BioFuelsDude · Nov 6, 2007

r90sKirk said:
Erik,

Congrats on the find, like DD stated though make sure the odometer hasn't been changed out before you get too excited about a low mileage car.

RocketChip will provide awesome chip tuning for your B4.

To reiterate Paramedick, do yourself a favor and don't run filtered WVO in this car. It will ruin the engine and you won't see those several thousand miles you were looking foward to, at least not WITHOUT a rebuild.

Kirk

Okay... well when I was a teenager I use to throw caution to the wind. Now a days (although now only 22 years young) I am a lot more careful with life as a whole. Honestly I tell you this because you are now the second person to say using WVO is bad. Please can I have a personal reason as to why? Furthermore, any additional information you may have on the subject would help. I’m not trying to be cocky about this but rather I would like any true factual insight you have the subject.

Like I have said I have read the piss out of the topic and I have three books at home on the subject of biofuels running diesel engines/generators. I know that certainly makes me no expert on the subject. Moreover the only thing I haven’t done is actually taken this theory to a conceptual reality.

What I have done besides research is talk to several people running WVO in Ford, Chevrolet, and Dodge trucks. Guys with the old Mercedes G class SUV have had surprising results. In terms of year range, the E class 190D/300D Mercedes are by far the widest ranged diesel cars out there. Personally, I’ve heard many success stories using SVO/WVO in VW TDI cars. TDI cars also appeal to me in terms of cost for parts and the actual cost of the vehicles themselves. After all Volkswagen does in fact mean the peoples cars.

For these specific reasons, I have come to love and even romance the VW TDI cars of today. Yes it’s true, I’m diesel addicted and I'v found my fix. One last thing I want to ask is should this be a new post? My thought are simply ‘Yes’. Well at least on the subject of WVO and using it on a B4. So I do not embarrass myself I will search the hell out of the subject before I post anything. Please keep your eyes open for the topic "Running WVO in a 1996 Passat, Why or Why not?"

Hope to hear from everyone with insight on the subject.

Erik

tditom · Nov 6, 2007

BioFuelsDude said:
...I receive the car that I can maintain it and then drive it maintance free for thousands of miles to come. ...

No such thing as "maintenance free". You simply must follow the maintenance schedule using quality materials.

the hoses that deteriorate on these cars are the ones going between the N75 control valve (on the firewall) and the wastegate actuator and various places on the air intake track. They dry rot and when you have leaks, you have performance issues. There is also a piece of tubing inside the ECU box that can develop a leak- replace this as well.

As others have said, make sure you change the timing belt, unless the original owner has proof that it was done. Another thing to note is that the timing belt job includes rollers and tensioner- make sure these are replaced as well.

r90sKirk · Nov 6, 2007

Erik,

Not trying to burst your bubble - for a good read on the subject go to the biodiesel section of this forum and read "WVO no more - my tragic greaser story" by Duluth Rooster.

Better yet call "Frank06" or read some of his posts, he has tore down quite a few TDI engines with damage from running WVO. He's in the process of rebuilding a TDI engine for a buddy of mine w/ a 96 Passat which just happened to have a greasel system on it and ran filtered WVO.

I'm certainly no expert on this subject but in a nutshell

1) WVO is hard on the injection pump - IP pumps at a very high rate, WVO isn't thin enough.

2) WVO causes carbon coking in the head and in the combustion chamber, covers everything including valve stems, valve seats, top of piston. Sometimes chunks of carbon can break off and do internal damage and sometimes they can take out the impeller on the turbo.

3) WVO can cause the piston rings to stick to the piston and not expand out or be able to form a good seal against cylinder wall. Consequently you'll lose compression and then start getting WVO in bottom end of engine as well, which can lead to other damage w/ crank and bearings.

My buddy was aware of the risks he was taking but refused to believe beforehand. Now after seeing his engine apart and the results he won't be going back to WVO.

Coincidentally the car he bought with the greasel system on it came out of Elgin Ill.

Kirk

BioFuelsDude · Nov 6, 2007

tditom said:
No such thing as "maintenance free". You simply must follow the maintenance schedule using quality materials.

the hoses that deteriorate on these cars are the ones going between the N75 control valve (on the firewall) and the wastegate actuator and various places on the air intake track. They dry rot and when you have leaks, you have performance issues. There is also a piece of tubing inside the ECU box that can develop a leak- replace this as well.

As others have said, make sure you change the timing belt, unless the original owner has proof that it was done. Another thing to note is that the timing belt job includes rollers and tensioner- make sure these are replaced as well.

Very informative information indeed! Thank you so much regarding specific hoses and TB issues. I understand anything in life that requires maintenance is never truly free of maintence. Personally I never leave cars the way I buy them simply because I modify and do all my own work. This, in my minds eye, helps me personal the car to my set standards and no one elses. My choice of words wasnt meant to be literal but rather I should have said, "As little maintenance as possible."

Once again thank you for your help, I plan on using these specific posts as a reference until I get my feet wet.

Erik

cowboyjack · Nov 6, 2007

Post on hose replacement:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=1566427&postcount=33

Replacing the short hose inside my ECU made my 98 A3 into a different car, even though I could find no visible or bubbling leaks!

The "Bentley" manual is the brand of manual and can be purchased from several vendors including: tdiparts.com

http://tdiparts.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=30&osCsid=a044de6ffe0aebafd36159d3ff353855

When you do the brakes, just replace the rotors, you can't machine these like the old days. I have been very happy with BleachedBora.com's brakes, though tdiparts and metalmanparts also carry good stuff. Be sure and buy an extra litre or two of the special VW brake fluid when you do it. And the Motive brake bleeder is well worth the initial investment. (See the thread on the A4 section.)

Let's see, what else... the hose that goes down in back of the engine to the turbo is a booger to get off, be careful not to break stuff... I slit mine and patiently, very patiently, worked it off. It took me longer to replace than all the rest of the hoses combined.

If you have worked on cars, I find the TDI very straightforward to work on. It has a certain Germanic logic to placement and engineering that is hard to beat. Several parts are VERY hard to get to, but most are easy. Using the Bentley and searching on here, there is nothing I have found yet that I couldn't solve, though I have chosen to let a trusted TDI guru do a few things I just flat didn't have time for.

jollyGreenGiant · Nov 7, 2007

Make your own biodiesel and use that, forget the WVO is my opinion. I debated and research for a long time on WVO use. You still have to obsessively filter and dewater the WVO anyways, why not just go the extra step and make the bio, I've yet to see a OE quality WVO install and I've personally repaired a couple WVO installs that totally wiped out the transfer section of the injection pump due to poor on vehicle filter maintenance, not good indeed and with very few actual miles running on WVO. I'm sure there are some people that can pull it off ( Frybrid level car install, super clean WVO, vacuum gauge to monitor system restriction, etc ), but the amount of time they must put into the "prep" work filtering and dewatering and collecting and whatnot, I can't see how financially this would make sense, plus the loss of value with the car itself... Time is money... I personally wouldn't ever buy a previously converted WVO TDI and would recommend that anyone else do the same unless the car was super cheap and had enough margin in it to replace major things like the engine, IP, turbo, etc.

If this is really a truw low mileage B4V, take real good care of it and don't do anything that you'll regret, OK? These are amazing cars and to hack one of these up would be a mistake.

RC is the way to go for ECM tuning, so much better than factory even with performance aside, just far better linear power, revs easier, just seems like a happier engine.

scurvy · Nov 8, 2007

BioFuelsDude said:
Please can I have a personal reason as to why? Furthermore, any additional information you may have on the subject would help. I’m not trying to be cocky about this but rather I would like any true factual insight you have the subject.

Sure.

Read this thread.

Don't bother with WVO, unless you collect it and turn it into ASTM-spec biodiesel. Put your welding skills to use building a metal reactor for biodiesel - NEVER use a plastic one.

BioFuelsDude said:
I've heard that the newer TDI motors dont have restrictive air intakes; however, I do not know about these cars. Ether way honestly, I will be building my own out of PVC pipe and painting it black.

Why bother? The stock intake flows WAY more air than you'll ever need. It isn't restrictive in the least. Use and OEM air filter and don't give it a second throught.

Less time spent on unneeded projects == more time enjoying the car.

Welcome, and get ready for plenty of reading!

scurvy

jollyGreenGiant · Nov 8, 2007

Why bother? The stock intake flows WAY more air than you'll ever need. It isn't restrictive in the least. Use and OEM air filter and don't give it a second throught.

Yup, with mods such as RC tuning and nozzles, the weakpoint in a 1Z/AHU engine is going to be the downpipe and turbo as far as HP/high RPM gains go and of course keeping smoke at bay. Bleached Bora has solutions for both of those issues. I can vouch for the downpipe being a nice product and I'll vouch for the turbo at some point but I can't justify taking mine out if it still works but just doesn't give me max power, I've got 220K on it now and don't see it going anytime soon based on shaft play and oil in the intake.

BioFuelsDude · Nov 8, 2007

scurvy said:
Sure.

Read this thread.

Don't bother with WVO, unless you collect it and turn it into ASTM-spec biodiesel. Put your welding skills to use building a metal reactor for biodiesel - NEVER use a plastic one.

Why bother? The stock intake flows WAY more air than you'll ever need. It isn't restrictive in the least. Use and OEM air filter and don't give it a second throught.

Less time spent on unneeded projects == more time enjoying the car.

Welcome, and get ready for plenty of reading!

scurvy

Scurvy,

Thanks for the input. Yea with welding you can fabricate anything. From a shoe rack for the wife to a complete twin turbo kit for a Corvette, it can be done doing that or anywhere in between. I will have to look at the drawings and construction diagrams of biofuel processors before I dig any further. Truthfully I would rather consider just buying a high quality turn key one like this: http://www.utahbiodieselsupply.com/biopro190.php

I love making things with my hands so don’t get me wrong. However, if I could literally just make 50 gallons a week, I would personally be able to have enough for an entire month or more. Maybe I could get good enough where I could sell to the guy three doors down with a diesel tractor. My welding instructor has a diesel in his Dodge Ram Cummings 2500, so I'm sure I could sell to him as well. I have made small batches but nothing to this scale. Time, money, and more consideration would need to take place because I was almost dead set on running WVO.

(Obviously I’m making all this sound simpler then it really is.

If I were to make biodiesel I would love to have automation on hand, though it is pricey and I won’t shell out for it as of right now! Currently, prices are $8,000 for the 50 gallon processor and $12,000 for the 100 gallon processor. $8000 dollars is a lot for just a fuel processor, especially if I can't even drive that thing to work or school. Even if I could this would look funny and might even be a little cold in the winter IL weather. This is a great deal for the technology. Not to mention you can do a lot with the knowledge you have gained through making the fuel, along with using the esters once you can burn it in a diesel engine. Nevertheless, I still don’t have a car to burn it in.

Right now, that guy is asking $8,000 for that B4 Passat with low miles. He won’t get that from me because I’ve learned that everything in life is negotiable. So do I buy the car or the processor first? Should I get the chicken or the egg? I'll take the chicken!

Erik

BioFuelsDude · Nov 8, 2007

scurvy said:
Sure.

Read this thread.

scurvy

P.S. That thread is a horror story!!! Forget Waste Veggie Oil!

jollyGreenGiant · Nov 8, 2007

Erik,

8K for a true 55K wagon ( is it a wagon? This does make a significant difference in valuation ) is a great deal given the current market based on numbers alone, without more detail concernig condition it's always hard to recommend over a computer screen but certainly worth pursuing quickly cause it will sell fast at that price if it's everything that you've said it is.

BioFuelsDude · Nov 9, 2007

jollyGreenGiant said:
Erik,

8K for a true 55K wagon ( is it a wagon? This does make a significant difference in valuation ) is a great deal given the current market based on numbers alone, without more detail concernig condition it's always hard to recommend over a computer screen but certainly worth pursuing quickly cause it will sell fast at that price if it's everything that you've said it is.

NOT A WAGON. How did that start? LoL. Its a sedan and the guy has no plans to sell it to anyone but me. Right now I am locked in;nevertheless, I am waiting for the carfax report. I stumbled on a rare find and I plan to see it through! Your shock value was the same as mine three weeks ago.

Erik

BioFuelsDude · Nov 13, 2007

The carfax on this car turned out to be sketchy and I will not pursue this car any further. My hunt, sadly, most continue. Though I must say I am growing hungary for a diesel!

Erik

dieseldorf · Nov 13, 2007

BFD, one of the forum members is offering his '96 wagon with a verified 65k miles on it..... contact indigobluewagon for all the details.

redmondjp · Nov 14, 2007

Replacement instrument cluster possibly?

BioFuelsDude · Nov 14, 2007

redmondjp said:
Replacement instrument cluster possibly?

correct and mileage can't be verified.... sad...

tdidieselbobny · Nov 14, 2007

IBW came to his senses and is no longer selling his B4V-that is one sweet car-I saw it last year shortly after he bought it.If he ever decides to sell(not likely)-it is worth every penny he asks for it.I just would like to know how he finds all those low mileage older TDI's......

Jetter_Sprinta · Nov 14, 2007

BioFuelsDude said:
The carfax on this car turned out to be sketchy and I will not pursue this car any further. My hunt, sadly, most continue. Though I must say I am growing hungary for a diesel!

Erik

Show the guy the carfax and tell him this and this and this is why I'm not willing to give you your price.

How far you willing to travel?

jollyGreenGiant · Nov 15, 2007

FWIW:

Even with unverifiable mileage, a nice TDI is still a nice TDI and a POS one is still a POS one. A proper inspection will determine the overall condition of the car, I've seen them with less than 100K that were just awful and others with over 200K that were just amazing, the whole mileage yardstick thing is overrated IMO, it's just an indicator and well I suppose lots of valuation guides like to use the number as well but if its a long term keeper then you as a buyer needs to take things into your own hands.

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