www.tdiclub.com

Economy - Longevity - Performance
The #1 Source of TDI Information on the Web!
Forums Articles Links Meets
Orders TDI Club Cards TDIFest 2016 Gone, but not forgotten VAG-Com List Unit Conversions TDIClub Chat Thank You




Go Back   TDIClub Forums > VW TDI Discussion Areas > TDI Fuel Economy

TDI Fuel Economy Discussions about increasing the fuel economy of your TDI engine. Non TDI related postings will be moved or removed.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old December 30th, 2017, 06:46   #1
cbman18j
Veteran Member
 
cbman18j's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Savannah
Fuel Economy: 43mpg
Default Fuel Economy Loss after Wheel and Tire Swap

So I have been using the Montereys with Continental True Contact for ~70,000 miles. My mileage has averaged 40-48 mpg roughly through 69,000 miles of highway driving depending if my indicated speed was 70 or higher. I switched to 17" Long Beachs with Continental Pure Contacts and it took me to 36-38 mpg on my normal trip. When I had the Arriettas installed with Extreme Contact DWS I average 39-42mpg on the same trip. Maybe it has something to do with possible winter diesel but I am not sure how far South winter diesel is this year do to the colder temperatures. I may swap back to the Arriettas eventually to see the larger than expected loss is do to the Long Beaches or something else.
__________________
99.5 VW Jetta TDI 5speed Stage 2 Malone, EGR Delete (sold to close friends daughter)
2000 VW Golf TDI 5speed Frank06 Stage 2 Cam
2003 VW Jetta TDI 5speed w/ 11mm IP, Skid Plate, CAT Filter, HID Retrofit, RMT 100, .658 5th gear, Long Beach
2007 Chevrolet Avalanche
cbman18j is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 30th, 2017, 07:09   #2
jayb79
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Exeter,NH
Default

Are the tires outside diameters the same? What are the tire sizes?
__________________
01Golf(370k), 2013 Mustang V6 28-30 summer mpg, 2016 F150 RCSB 2WD 2.7L ecoboost.
jayb79 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 30th, 2017, 15:12   #3
cbman18j
Veteran Member
 
cbman18j's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Savannah
Fuel Economy: 43mpg
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayb79 View Post
Are the tires outside diameters the same? What are the tire sizes?
Both the Long Beach and the Arriettas are being run with 225/45/17s; the arriettas had extreme dws in that size
__________________
99.5 VW Jetta TDI 5speed Stage 2 Malone, EGR Delete (sold to close friends daughter)
2000 VW Golf TDI 5speed Frank06 Stage 2 Cam
2003 VW Jetta TDI 5speed w/ 11mm IP, Skid Plate, CAT Filter, HID Retrofit, RMT 100, .658 5th gear, Long Beach
2007 Chevrolet Avalanche
cbman18j is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 30th, 2017, 18:40   #4
jayb79
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Exeter,NH
Default

The width of that tire is considerably larger(assuming you were running stock size b4???), more contact area is more rolling resistance. That would explain some of your loss.
__________________
01Golf(370k), 2013 Mustang V6 28-30 summer mpg, 2016 F150 RCSB 2WD 2.7L ecoboost.
jayb79 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 9th, 2018, 06:17   #5
jettawreck
Veteran Member
 
jettawreck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Northern Minnesota-55744
Fuel Economy: 52+ average lifetime '01
Default

Tread depth also causes mileage change, new/deeper tread causes more resistance. Also larger overall diameter decreases the indicated miles, which doesn't change your "real life" mpg much, but does change the calculation results since it tallies up fewer miles on the odometer. Slight changes seem to multiply the results more than expected.
New tires have always returned less mpg than the worn out ones when I have replaced.
Heavier wheels are also supposedly a bit worse for mileage, especially for those doing more stop/go driving.
__________________

2001 Jetta TDI GLS Silver-current driver (salvage)permanently vented-Panzer Plate-Sprint 520s-ScanGauge-CheckTemp III-ZeroStart heater-CAT 2 filter
2003 Jetta GLS Black w/leather (New Project Car) fixer-upper w/broken TB
2004 Cadillac SLS (wife's)
1999 GMC Suburban (It's MN-you need one)
197? Shibura 2cyl diesel 4WD tractor-loader/brushhog (very handy unit)
196? International TD340 Dozer-w/Drott 4-in-1 bucket/back ripper attachment
jettawreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 10th, 2018, 05:03   #6
cbman18j
Veteran Member
 
cbman18j's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Savannah
Fuel Economy: 43mpg
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayb79 View Post
The width of that tire is considerably larger(assuming you were running stock size b4???), more contact area is more rolling resistance. That would explain some of your loss.
Yeah I was expecting some loss from switch from the Avus but compared to the artist has I was surprised by the loss
__________________
99.5 VW Jetta TDI 5speed Stage 2 Malone, EGR Delete (sold to close friends daughter)
2000 VW Golf TDI 5speed Frank06 Stage 2 Cam
2003 VW Jetta TDI 5speed w/ 11mm IP, Skid Plate, CAT Filter, HID Retrofit, RMT 100, .658 5th gear, Long Beach
2007 Chevrolet Avalanche
cbman18j is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 10th, 2018, 05:07   #7
cbman18j
Veteran Member
 
cbman18j's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Savannah
Fuel Economy: 43mpg
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jettawreck View Post
Tread depth also causes mileage change, new/deeper tread causes more resistance. Also larger overall diameter decreases the indicated miles, which doesn't change your "real life" mpg much, but does change the calculation results since it tallies up fewer miles on the odometer. Slight changes seem to multiply the results more than expected.
New tires have always returned less mpg than the worn out ones when I have replaced.
Heavier wheels are also supposedly a bit worse for mileage, especially for those doing more stop/go driving.
That makes sense because when I ran the arriettas the tires were not new, they were probably about 25-50% life left in them.
__________________
99.5 VW Jetta TDI 5speed Stage 2 Malone, EGR Delete (sold to close friends daughter)
2000 VW Golf TDI 5speed Frank06 Stage 2 Cam
2003 VW Jetta TDI 5speed w/ 11mm IP, Skid Plate, CAT Filter, HID Retrofit, RMT 100, .658 5th gear, Long Beach
2007 Chevrolet Avalanche
cbman18j is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 18th, 2018, 22:02   #8
Fixmy59bug
 
Fixmy59bug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Henderson, NV
Fuel Economy: Check my Fuelly Tag for most up-to-date numbers
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cbman18j View Post
Yeah I was expecting some loss from switch from the Avus but compared to the artist has I was surprised by the loss
It can be quite the drastic change...

You are going from a 35lb wheel and tire combination (Avus weighs 17lbs, 195/65-15 TrueContact tire weighs 18lbs)

And you are installing a 47lb wheel and tire combination (Arietta weighs 25lbs, and 225/45-17 PureContact weighs 22lbs).

Not to mention the additional drag of a 195mm wide tire compared to a 225mm wide tire.
__________________
Fixmy59bug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 19th, 2018, 07:46   #9
2015vwgolfdiesel
Veteran Member
 
2015vwgolfdiesel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Oklahoma
Fuel Economy: City mid 40s ~ Road mid 50s ~ Two (2) 61 MPG fill ups
Arrow $.02

Quote:
Originally Posted by cbman18j View Post
So I have been using the Montereys with Continental True Contact for ~70,000 miles. My mileage has averaged 40-48 mpg roughly through 69,000 miles of highway driving depending if my indicated speed was 70 or higher. I switched to 17" Long Beachs with Continental Pure Contacts and it took me to 36-38 mpg on my normal trip. When I had the Arriettas installed with Extreme Contact DWS I average 39-42mpg on the same trip. Maybe it has something to do with possible winter diesel but I am not sure how far South winter diesel is this year do to the colder temperatures. I may swap back to the Arriettas eventually to see the larger than expected loss is do to the Long Beaches or something else.

....in general wheel tire swapping (IMO) is going to hurt your MPG.

... In general auto manufactures are pushed hard to get the best MPG results the day the car hits the rode.

... Respectfully your "style" changes are going to negatively affect MPG.
2015vwgolfdiesel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 21st, 2018, 10:12   #10
cbman18j
Veteran Member
 
cbman18j's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Savannah
Fuel Economy: 43mpg
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2015vwgolfdiesel View Post
....in general wheel tire swapping (IMO) is going to hurt your MPG.

... In general auto manufactures are pushed hard to get the best MPG results the day the car hits the rode.

... Respectfully your "style" changes are going to negatively affect MPG.
I had expected some negative affects on MPG due to my experience with the Arrietta and DWS combo previously, I was just shocked that there was more negative affects when I went to the Long Beach and Truecontact combo. I would have expected similar results between the Long Beach and Arrietta since the both tires were the same size 225-45/17.
__________________
99.5 VW Jetta TDI 5speed Stage 2 Malone, EGR Delete (sold to close friends daughter)
2000 VW Golf TDI 5speed Frank06 Stage 2 Cam
2003 VW Jetta TDI 5speed w/ 11mm IP, Skid Plate, CAT Filter, HID Retrofit, RMT 100, .658 5th gear, Long Beach
2007 Chevrolet Avalanche
cbman18j is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 24th, 2018, 23:42   #11
turbovan+tdi
Veteran Member
 
turbovan+tdi's Avatar
Default

Long beach wheels are pretty heavy.
__________________
1984 6.2 Diesel Get A Way van, remote turbo setup designed/installed by me, burning anything that burns.
2003 GSW, 2.0L ALH, Stage 2 Colt Cam, 1756 turbo, auto, silver, 380k-Wife's.
2004 GSW TDI, blue, 5 speed-DD-Malone stage 2, no kitty, aeroturbine muffler, PD150's.
2003 JSW 1.8T, silver-parting out. 2006 JSW, TDI 5 speed, blue.
turbovan+tdi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 4th, 2018, 10:25   #12
Andyinchville1
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Virginia
Default

FWIW - I went from factory Steelies and Ecopia tires (195 65 r 15 ) to
factory Avus wheels and Ecopica in the 205 70 r 15 size and have achieved the same or better MPG's (in addition to lower engine RPMs).

The weight of the wheel assemblies more or less remained the same based on my weight scale (I lost the actual papers I wrote the info on) BUT the avus wheel lightness offset the larger tires weight.

I like the reduced RPM's at speed , increased (slightly) ground clearance, and the look of the more "filled" wheel wells.

Andrew
Andyinchville1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 7th, 2018, 08:20   #13
tedd
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: uk
Default

If you look at the Dunlop "blu response" the manufacturer says both 15' and 16' types fall into class band "C" for fuel efficiency.
However, the 16 inch tyre is rated 69 decibels, while the 15 inch tyre is rated 67 decibels. That might not sound much difference, but decibels is measured in a logarithmic scale, so a difference of 1 decibel is considerable.
I believe sound is an indicator of efficiency, all else being equal.
Try a smaller lighter wheel maybe?

Tyres ratings compared:
dunlop blu response
195/65/16
195/65/15

Last edited by tedd; February 7th, 2018 at 08:31.
tedd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 7th, 2018, 08:52   #14
2015vwgolfdiesel
Veteran Member
 
2015vwgolfdiesel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Oklahoma
Fuel Economy: City mid 40s ~ Road mid 50s ~ Two (2) 61 MPG fill ups
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tedd View Post
If you look at the Dunlop "blu response" the manufacturer says both 15' and 16' types fall into class band "C" for fuel efficiency.


However, the 16 inch tyre is rated 69 decibels, while the 15 inch tyre is rated 67 decibels. That might not sound much difference, but decibels is measured in a logarithmic scale, so a difference of 1 decibel is considerable.


I believe sound is an indicator of efficiency, all else being equal.
Try a smaller lighter wheel maybe?

Tyres ratings compared:
dunlop blu response
195/65/16
195/65/15
Your post is astute -- I like quite -- Big time

Also appreciate QUITE on cars around me
__________________
Do the fix, pocket $8,000-ish 6, 776 miles on the clock, Pristine condition
BB = $25,625, but VW is not paying for PRIME condition nor ULTRA low miles.
Net bases in my 2015 Golf = $12,495
NADA-KBB for older CPO Golf TDi 2014 = $18,250
2015vwgolfdiesel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 7th, 2018, 09:47   #15
IndigoBlueWagon
TDIClub Enthusiast
Principal IDParts
Vendor
w/Business number
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: South of Boston
Fuel Economy: 50/45/37
Default

I wonder if something's off with your current FE calculation or with your car. Although what posters say about wheel weight and tire width is correct, I can't see it making that big a difference in FE in the same driving conditions. And to me it's a red flag whenever any manual transmission ALH shows less than 40 MPG. Seems to me that all your MPG numbers are a bit on the low side.
__________________
2002 Jetta wagon, 358K, RC3+; 1993 Mercedes-Benz 300D 2.5, 197K; 1997 Passat, 285K; '99.5 Golf, 255K; 2011 335d, 55K; 2015 Golf Sportwagen, 5K. Principal, http://www.idparts.com
Kid's cars: 2002 Golf TDI, 2002 Jetta TDI
IndigoBlueWagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 2 (1 members and 1 guests)
MikeMars
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Best Wheel and Tire Size/type for Fuel Economy? ives TDI 101 9 March 16th, 2010 06:28
Best Tire for fuel economy Knoxville TDI Fuel Economy 31 February 8th, 2008 00:49
Wheel/tire (16") weights and fuel economy?? david_594 TDI Fuel Economy 25 July 11th, 2005 06:22
Best Tire for Fuel Economy PunchBug TDI Fuel Economy 6 August 22nd, 2001 21:00
Using tire/wheel upgrades for economy? BRUSSELS BELGIAN TDI Fuel Economy 12 February 19th, 2000 07:34


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:39.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright - TDIClub Online LTD - 2017
Contact Us | Privacy Statement | Forum Rules | Disclaimer
TDIClub Online Ltd (TDIClub.com) is not affiliated with the VWoA or VWAG and is supported by contributions from viewers like you.
1996 - 2017, All Rights Reserved
Page generated in 0.14926 seconds with 13 queries
[Output: 135.29 Kb. compressed to 113.44 Kb. by saving 21.86 Kb. (16.15%)]