Is all diesel the same? (branding?)

(I'm a new TDI owner, forgive me if this has all been covered)

In my immediate area are Shell, Valero and a few independents selling Diesel #2. Prices vary widely, from less than regular unleaded to nearly as much as premium gas. I can find Arco and Chevron stations selling diesel as well but a bit further away.

Is there any difference between them (other than storage conditions at the stations)? Is there anyway to determine the cetaine, sulphur or any other formulation information from the pump or oil company?

Of course, I just got the car, so I have a few weeks to learn about this stuff before I have to buy fuel.

Since you live in California, you can be assured that any fuel you buy anywhere is going to be better than what's available in most of the rest of the country.

You can thank CARB for requiring low sulfur diesel in that state and if I recall correctly, the state also mandates a cetane value of around 50.

It doesn't get much better than that on this continent.

I notice an immediate improvement in idle quality (quieter, smoother) and smoke production at cold startup when I fuel up on the infrequent trips I make down there.

Unfortunately, it's almost all gone by the time I get home.

Its all the same stuff.

Ba££$!

Note that JeffT is a lawyer, not a mechanic, chemist, diesel refiner or anything else that would give his opinions any weight.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Says JeffT:
Its all the same stuff.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Not according to Texaco's response to my question. There are differences between "Premium" and stuff not labeled as such.

I can even smell the difference in the exhaust between the different kinds of rotgut around here. If I actually ever found some decent diesel fuel in these parts it would be amazing. I get by with what I've got but it's not all the some, and none of it here is great fuel IMO.

It's probably all the same where I live. One oil distributor supplies diesel fuel to an Amoco station, where it's called Amoco Premier, and also supplies an Exxon station. When I called the distributor, they weren't sure of the cetane rating but knew it was above 40.

What we need is a new regulation federal or state regulation that requires posting the cetane rating on the pump. This will improve the quality of the fuel. Does anyone know why this isn't done currently?

Hi Andy,
Where did you find "premier" around Chapal Hill--i'd be suspicious, especially if they don't have any idea of the cetane #. I believe all required to be above 40, but getting in the upper 40's-50 is another story. Since there don't seem to be any regulations, as you stated, "premier" may not mean anything without a cetane rating posted. I've never seen any station labelled with a premier pump anywhere in the area (I work near RTP and go to Chapal Hill fairly often). Have you actually noticed any better performance? Thanks, Charles

I haven't tried the Amoco Premier fuel yet. I just got my TDI and only have driven 300 miles on the dealer supplied tank of fuel. I added eight ounces of Diesel Kleen with cetane boost and topped up the tank but still didn't notice any difference.
The Amoco station where they sell Amoco "Premier" is at Petro Mart which is about five miles south of CH on 15-501, across from a Dry Dock seafood restaurant. Actually, it's in Chatham County. Go there on Sunday morning around 0930 and you can see 150 - 200 motorcycles, if you're interested.

I haven't tried the Amoco Premier fuel yet. I just got my TDI and only have driven 300 miles on the dealer supplied tank of fuel. I added eight ounces of Diesel Kleen with cetane boost and topped up the tank but still didn't notice any difference.
The Amoco station where they sell Amoco "Premier" is at Petro Mart which is about five miles south of CH on 15-501, across from a Dry Dock seafood restaurant. Actually, it's in Chatham County. Go there on Sunday morning around 0930 and you can see 150 - 200 motorcycles, if you're interested.

Best diesel fuel in Chicagoland area?

In the Chicago area, there isn't too much, unfortunately. I got a tank of Premier at a station in Wheeling. I don't remember the address but it's on Beowulf's list. (Dundee road maybe?) It was pretty expensive there, though. You can get a decent deal on Premier at the Amoco near the interchange of I-55 and US-52 in the Joliet area. Those are the only two I'm aware of...

I-55 and exit 241 I believe is true Amoco Premier (just make sure you pump from the premier pump and not the premium pump ).

I have gotten some fuel from there a couple of times and so far so good.

DB

In the Boston Metro area only Gulf places a 45 Cetane number on their pumps. This is supposed to be a guaranteed minimum. Hess (a smaller supplier who is quite price competitive) is good for 42 at the pump; they say it is often higher, but guaranteed to be at least this number. I have asked.

The Commonwealth of Ma$$ does not require any labelling for diesel fuel like they do for gasoline (I think this sucks).

I *believe* that while there are probably different qualities of fuel coming in on the tankers, the distributors and dealers negotiate quality during distribution and "cut to taste". The (boatload) inconsistency is partly due to refining the original crude, and the final quality is like cutting heroin or cocaine on the street. It's all about price and profit.

What do you know/think?

Chicago-area (loosely speaking): Small town of Manhattan, Ill., between Kankakee and Joliet, has an Amoco station with pumps labeled Premier.

Like some other Premier outlets, it could very well be just old labeling. Seems to be the same as anything else I've tried. The person identified as the station manager had no real idea what Premier was. ("Where does it say that?" was her exact quote when I asked her if it was the real stuff.)

Anthony

It might be...and it might not.

If you live in an area where all the fuel trucks load at the same pipeline or refinery distribution center, it all comes from the same storage tank.

If you live where a brand uses a dedicated pipeline/distribution system, it can be different.

A few weeks (maybe months) back, SkyPup posted detailed analyses of several fuels, with links to the full tests. The Texaco report mentioned by Drizzten concludes that five performance properties measuring the efficacy of diesel are:
Cetane Number
Injector Detergency
Thermal Stability
Energy Content
Low Temperature Operability
In fact, fuels vary widely across America. California has already implemented tougher standards, and our fuel is much cleaner. In the tech details posted by SkyPup, Chevron & Arco had the best fuels in CA., but all are required to have higher standards than if the other states.
Results can be measured in your intake passages. Mine were just looked at after almost 80,000 miles, and the mechanic showed me there was virtually no gunk built up on my car's intake ports. This is not the case with some of the photos which have been posted here in the past. Yes, there is a difference.
But even with the good CA fuel, I still add PowerService at least once a month -- if I remember I do each tank, but I frequently forget. In fact, there is a difference.

I have done a lot of research and there is in fact a lot of difference in diesel fuels. There is a significant difference between summer and winter formulations

There are substantial differences in additives.

In california, the state regulations require low sulphur and aromatics and higher cetane (47 is the absolute minimum).

I have read the execituve orders for several formulations of chevron and arco diesel in California, where excpetions were granted becuase of aromatic content. Some of these have sulphur in the <50ppm range and cetane numbers as high as 57.

The hard part is figuring out exactly what kind of diesel from what refinery is coming out of the pump.

Also, storage conditions seem to be a factor.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by nuke:
[QB]...The hard part is figuring out exactly what kind of diesel from what refinery is coming out of the pump...

QB]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Exactly.

This, you have no control over. You can buy your fuel exclusively from XYZ supplier, but you have no assurance whatsoever that the supplier obtains his fuel from an exclusive source. Just because the sign in front says XYZ Brand, that does not mean you are getting fuel refined by XYZ. If you were to drive from coast to coast buying fuel only at one brand of station, I would be certain that somewhere in this journey you would get a tankful refined by a different brand.

How big a of deal is this? In the overall scheme of things, it is insignificant, because the fuel you are buying, although refined by someone else, meets the specs established by ASTM and XYZ brand.