Run-while dead BEW Lift Pumps?

PakProtector

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2014
Location
AnnArbor, MI
TDI
Mk.4's and the Cummins
Aside from taking the beast apart to modify, are there parts available that will allow the car to continue with a dead lift pump? Any experience with offerings from ID Parts? Anybody with a plug-and-play, drop in assy that will let the car suck through/past it?
cheers,
Douglas
 

drucifer

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2013
Location
fredericksburg virginia
TDI
2004 jetta sw tdi pd
I believe the original pumps were set up this way and replacement pumps did not allow the car to run. Running with a dead lift pump sounds like a lot of extra work for the tandem pump. How would you know when the lift pump is dead? When the tandem pump fails. Put the $105 motor or the $230 assembly on and drive on.
 

IchmochteTDI

Active member
Joined
Aug 26, 2004
Location
Virginia
TDI
2005 Jetta GLS & 2006 New Beetle
I've put two lift pumps in my BEW Jetta. The first was done as a precautionary measure at about 100k. It came from a questionable source. It lasted only a year and left me dead in traffic. The second pump came from ID parts and has been working well for almost two years. IMO bypassing the lift pump--or trying to--is not a good idea.
 

BobnOH

not-a-mechanic
Joined
May 29, 2004
Location
central Ohio
TDI
New Beetle 2003 manual
I won't question why you want to do this, because racecar. But the in-take fuel pick-up for a VE (2003) would do that, don't know about connects, but a few have put the PD in-take in their VEs.
 
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PakProtector

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Location
AnnArbor, MI
TDI
Mk.4's and the Cummins
I've put two lift pumps in my BEW Jetta. The first was done as a precautionary measure at about 100k. It came from a questionable source. It lasted only a year and left me dead in traffic. The second pump came from ID parts and has been working well for almost two years. IMO bypassing the lift pump--or trying to--is not a good idea.
The early OE pump will 'bypass' and allow the tandem pump to suck fuel from the tank. The later ones don't...and the car will die when they stop functioning. Why do you find the former behavior bad?
cheers,
Douglas
 

Mike_04GolfTDI

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Nov 19, 2003
Location
Richmond, BC, Canada
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Mine: 2019 Golf R DSG, Wife's: 2015 Golf Comfortline TDI
Remove the fuse for the pump and see if your car will run without it.

On my car it's fuse #28, but check your fuse diagram to be sure.

Do it in a safe place of course, not out on the road.

Edit: Just noticed you have a 2002. So I guess you put this pump in as an upgrade. Might not be fuse #28 then. If you wired it up I guess you'll know how to cut the power.
 

BobnOH

not-a-mechanic
Joined
May 29, 2004
Location
central Ohio
TDI
New Beetle 2003 manual
The early OE pump will 'bypass' and allow the tandem pump to suck fuel from the tank. The later ones don't...and the car will die when they stop functioning. Why do you find the former behavior bad?
cheers,
Douglas
Because it leads to additional part failure (tandem pump) and performance issues. Don't know that that's why they did it.
Certainly the car being able to run after pump failure is a positive, like if you're geographically isolated or in an end of civilization scenario.
 

PakProtector

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Joined
Jan 5, 2014
Location
AnnArbor, MI
TDI
Mk.4's and the Cummins
Remove the fuse for the pump and see if your car will run without it.

On my car it's fuse #28, but check your fuse diagram to be sure.

Do it in a safe place of course, not out on the road.

Edit: Just noticed you have a 2002. So I guess you put this pump in as an upgrade. Might not be fuse #28 then. If you wired it up I guess you'll know how to cut the power.
Need to update that. The current is an 04 Jetta.

Douglas
 

coalminer16

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 11, 2008
Location
Central Wisconsin
TDI
Golf 2004
I had a lift pump fail but didn't know until fuel filter change. I prefer not to be stuck in the middle of a state with no lift pump at any stores requiring an overnight shipping, a hotel stay, a tow and being late to what ever I was headed to.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 

JDSwan87

Black Swamp Thing
Joined
Feb 9, 2014
Location
Michigan near Toledo
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI, 5 speed Lagoon Blue Metallic(sold); 2005 Jetta TDI Wagon auto
The OE lift pumps will "siphon thru". My 2005 died unbeknownest to me and it siphoned thru for who knows how long. Lift up your rear seat bottom and have someone listen for hum as you cycle the key. If it hums, your good. If it doesn't hum, and the car still runs, you have a GOOD OE pump that won't leave you stranded. If you have a "siphon thru" pump, just replace the motor.
 

Geomorph

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Oct 17, 2007
Location
Sacramento, CA
TDI
2005 Golf and 2002 NB
On the replacement pumps I saw about 8 years ago, fuel would flow through as long as the tank was full. This is because the top of the pump motors had an air valve with a check ball that closes when the pump is running. When the pump is not running, air can be pulled through that hole at the top of the pump if the fuel level is not above it. My solution was to attach a hose to the hole and run it to the bottom of the lift pump housing. It worked, my car would still run with the lift pump unplugged and low fuel level. I don’t know if the current replacement pumps work the same way.

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Mike_04GolfTDI

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Richmond, BC, Canada
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Mine: 2019 Golf R DSG, Wife's: 2015 Golf Comfortline TDI
Out of curiosity I removed the fuse for the fuel pump with my engine running. The engine idled for about a minute and a half and then died. I have an aftermarket replacement pump.

I replaced the fuse and then it took about 20 seconds of cranking to get the car running again. So don’t waste your time trying this.

It would be nice to modify the pump so that the car can run without it.
 

Geomorph

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Joined
Oct 17, 2007
Location
Sacramento, CA
TDI
2005 Golf and 2002 NB
Out of curiosity I removed the fuse for the fuel pump with my engine running. The engine idled for about a minute and a half and then died. I have an aftermarket replacement pump.

I replaced the fuse and then it took about 20 seconds of cranking to get the car running again. So don’t waste your time trying this.

It would be nice to modify the pump so that the car can run without it.
Did you have a full tank? If not, try it again with a full tank.

If it works with a full tank, you just need to hook up some kind of tube to the vent on top of the pump so it could draw from the bottom of the tank, if the pump motor ever dies.
 

Mike_04GolfTDI

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Location
Richmond, BC, Canada
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Mine: 2019 Golf R DSG, Wife's: 2015 Golf Comfortline TDI
I had a half tank while trying this. I'll look into this vent thing. Do not want to get stranded.

In your pictures I guess the black hose is the one you've added?
 
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Geomorph

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Oct 17, 2007
Location
Sacramento, CA
TDI
2005 Golf and 2002 NB
I had a half tank while trying this. I'll look into this vent thing. Do not want to get stranded.

In your pictures I guess the black hose is the one you've added?
Yes, it is a fuel hose plus a little right angle barbed plastic hose connector. I had to shave down the barb for the pump side with fine sand paper so that it would fit into the vent hole on top of the pump.
 

Mike_04GolfTDI

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Nov 19, 2003
Location
Richmond, BC, Canada
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Mine: 2019 Golf R DSG, Wife's: 2015 Golf Comfortline TDI
So I wonder what the purpose of this vent hole is? From what you describe it sounds like it's on the outlet side of the pump, and a check valve closes when the pump is running?

When the pump is not running it allows air to enter (or fuel if the level is high enough). Maybe this is to prevent the tandem pump from creating a vacuum if the in-tank fuel inlet got blocked?

Does your black hose have a mesh screen on the end or anything to prevent larger debris from getting into the fuel system? Wouldn't want a chunk of something getting lodged somewhere and restricting flow. Small stuff should make it to the fuel filter and get caught there, which is fine.
 

Vince Waldon

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Apr 25, 2009
Location
Edmonton AB Canada
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2001 ALH Jetta, 2003 ALH Wagon, 2005 BEW Wagon
If you have a "siphon thru" pump, just replace the motor.
Yuppers... IMHO this is a feature worth preserving. Saved my butt on a long family trip. :)

The challenge becomes:

- replacement motors are getting rare
- the pump case is often pretty brittle from decades of life steeped in diesel... the patient may not survive the motor transplant surgery. :)
 

Geomorph

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Joined
Oct 17, 2007
Location
Sacramento, CA
TDI
2005 Golf and 2002 NB
So I wonder what the purpose of this vent hole is? From what you describe it sounds like it's on the outlet side of the pump, and a check valve closes when the pump is running?

When the pump is not running it allows air to enter (or fuel if the level is high enough). Maybe this is to prevent the tandem pump from creating a vacuum if the in-tank fuel inlet got blocked?

Does your black hose have a mesh screen on the end or anything to prevent larger debris from getting into the fuel system? Wouldn't want a chunk of something getting lodged somewhere and restricting flow. Small stuff should make it to the fuel filter and get caught there, which is fine.

I didn’t but I guess you could add some kind of screen over that top hole or to a hose that you attached to it. If it became blocked and the lift pump was dead, fuel could still be pulled through the bottom of the lift pump.
 

Vince Waldon

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Joined
Apr 25, 2009
Location
Edmonton AB Canada
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2001 ALH Jetta, 2003 ALH Wagon, 2005 BEW Wagon
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Wilkins

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Joined
Aug 19, 2005
Location
British Columbia
TDI
05 Jetta Wagon 5sp, 10 Sportwagen 6MT
I replaced my lift pump motor and had the entire pump fail catastrophically about 4 years later, 600 km from home and the nearest VW dealer. A local independent replaced the pump with one from VW, which wasn’t inexpensive.

Something came apart internally and it plugged off the fuel line. I think it had actually failed about 1000 km earlier when my son who was driving the car mentioned it went into limp mode, the only time that has ever happened. I thought it was just his driving style...

A few people have mentioned bypasses that allow fuel to be sucked through the new pumps after the motor stops. Sounds like a good idea to me.
 

PakProtector

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Jan 5, 2014
Location
AnnArbor, MI
TDI
Mk.4's and the Cummins
What if you could sort of hollow out the guts of the in-tank fuel pump, so it's basically just a pick-up tube and a level sensor, and then install an external pump like this:

https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/sgt-sp8012/overview/

At that price it would be no problem to keep a spare in the car.
The pump is listed as for gasoline. Diesel is quite another thing. In that same vein, the Carter 4601 is of comparable output pressure, and is OK with Diesel fuel. Got one living on my Dodge for a while now...:)
cheers,
Douglas
 
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