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VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD) This is a general discussion about A4/MkIV Jetta (99.5-~2005), Golf(99.5-2006), and New Beetle(98-2006). Both VE and PD engines are covered here.

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Old May 16th, 2018, 06:05   #1
Bmangdog
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Default Rod Bearing Replacement?

Hey all, New to the forum and I am from Southern Oregon.

I bought my 2003 TDI Golf 5spd with about 186k on it and have been driving it for about 3500 miles. This last weekend I heard a light tick and pulled over to investigsate, (oil,water,temp,oil pressure was all good). I continued on very easy and the noise turned into more of a knock so I stopped and had the car towed home. I pulled the pan and found #2 cylinder has mashed the rod bearing and had about 1/8" of play in it. I would love to find a new motor but I cannot afford that right now, so I am going to have the crank fixed and do all new bearings and timing belt etc. Is there a shop that specializes in grinding and polishing cranks for these cars that I should send it? I also plan on doing valve seals, rings, and a south bend clutch. Thanks in advance! Brady



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Old May 16th, 2018, 09:28   #2
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We can kit you up. If the crank is not warped too bad, we can accept your core and provide a swap. We have cranks ready to go.

If you prefer, we have crank grinding service that will turn yours. $200. Excellent workmanship.

The crank sensor wheel should be removed and new screws installed. Otherwise, it gets bent.

Also, since the bearings spun, I would not trust the big ends to be good. We can check them, replace them or repair them.

We can also balance the pistons and ultrasonically clean them. If you want to get bores perfect and reuse the pistons, we can coat pistons and have staged oversize rings, for a perfect as new fit.

Let us know what you would like. We can help you out.
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Old May 16th, 2018, 09:56   #3
oilhammer
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If you are on a tight budget, you are probably better off trying to find a good used engine. Also, I'd be concerned about why this happened in the first place. It could be an injection issue, and that can and will destroy an engine in short order.... in seconds even (ask me how I know ).
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Old May 16th, 2018, 20:53   #4
Bmangdog
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Thanks for the reply’s, I talked with Frank tonight and I think I am going to go his route.
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Old May 17th, 2018, 03:28   #5
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Awesome, he'll hook you up good!

And again, I would want to be concerned about why this happened in the first place. ALHs are pretty tough, they rarely just chuck parts for no reason.

Frank can give maybe a better idea of what may have gone wrong upon examination of some of the pieces, but some sort of injection problem may not show itself by visual inspection alone.
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Old May 17th, 2018, 07:05   #6
Bmangdog
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilhammer View Post
Awesome, he'll hook you up good!
And again, I would want to be concerned about why this happened in the first place. ALHs are pretty tough, they rarely just chuck parts for no reason.
Frank can give maybe a better idea of what may have gone wrong upon examination of some of the pieces, but some sort of injection problem may not show itself by visual inspection alone.
I think we determined that the oil pump chain tensioner crapped out, I did find some pieces of plastic in the pan and upon further inspection the tensioner is almost non existent anymore. Iíll snap a pic when I get home tonight!
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Old May 17th, 2018, 07:13   #7
oilhammer
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Oh yeah, seen that quite a few times. People think I am crazy to recommend chain and tensioner replacement by the 300k mile mark, but that little piece of plastic will ruin your day in a few seconds if it breaks. Usually they last longer than 186k miles, though. At least on the [slower spinning] diesels they do.

Mine had two thin holes worn clear through it when I took it out, and had a hairline crack starting.
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Old May 17th, 2018, 07:31   #8
belome
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If you lost the oil pump what are the odds that the main bearings are the only fatality?

Certainly the turbo is going to be dead, but what about cam bearings?
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Old May 18th, 2018, 09:33   #9
maxmoo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by belome View Post
If you lost the oil pump what are the odds that the main bearings are the only fatality?

Certainly the turbo is going to be dead, but what about cam bearings?
^ This ....as oilhammer said, it may be cheaper to find a good used engine if you are on a budget.
On the other hand Franko6 is the way to go if you want it done right.
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Old May 20th, 2018, 11:59   #10
wonneber
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Franko6 View Post
If you want to get bores perfect and reuse the pistons, we can coat pistons and have staged oversize rings, for a perfect as new fit.
What is the piston coating?
I never heard of this.
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Old May 20th, 2018, 19:47   #11
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What is the piston coating?
I never heard of this.
There is a graphite coating on the skirt side of the OEM VW pistons, as they come from the factory. This is a wear coating, that is similar to what we are using. However, the thickness of the coating and the hardness of the coating is such that we can apply a thicker coating, albeit, in thousandths on an inch thicknesses, to make up for typical wear we find in the cylinder bores. The coating we are using has been proven in race track applications.

We usually find a cylinder bore, with normal wear, around 350k-400k miles, will have blowby from worn rings and larger piston-to-cylinder bore clearances. When the total clearances reach around .005" between piston and cylinder, the oil usage and amount of blowby becomes a problem.

Other times, we see a single cylinder that, for example, drops a valve and scores the cylinder wall or in a overheat situation that one bore has perceptible bore damage, but will clean up relatively quickly. But, by the time the marks are removed from the cylinder bore, the standard piston and ring set will have excessive clearances. Blowby and oil usage climb to unacceptable levels.

Our repair can be done with the block in-frame and depending on the circumstances, we can often reuse the existing pistons. This saves a lot of time and money, while returning the engine to service life with strong performance levels.

Most cases, we attach our torque plate to the cylinder head and hone until the bore has no taper or out-of-round. Then, measuring the difference between the bore and pistons, we have our pistons coated with a polymer that fits the piston to the bore size. The coating can be applied to recover a .010"(.25mm, 1st oversize) bore to piston clearance. Although the coating has claimed to allow coating thickness up to .020" (.5mm 2nd oversize), at that level, we prefer to bore and fit for the oversize pistons.

To accommodate the larger bore sizes, we have sets of rings from stock size, .07mm oversize (79.51mm)and .25mm oversize(79.96)that we file the rings for a perfect end-gap clearances.

We have already installed and are running this coating in a number of engines with great effect. The coating, because of it's texture, holds additional oil against the cylinder walls for lubricity. The graphite in the coating will wear away over the break-in period to a perfect bore fit. From what we have seen, it's creates a better piston fit than the original graphite coatings. The entire surface below the rings evenly supports the piston, filling all the voids and piston imperfections, disbursing load and bearing on the piston to cylinder surfaces.

This will not solve all situations, but it's certainly a tool in our arsenal for reviving engines.

I invite interested parties to investigate the procedure to obtain prepared pistons through us. Feel free to call or email.
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'02 80k grey leather, 99.5 R.I.P 153k
'85A2 NA 375k, '91 A3 290k Always Silver, Always a Jetta
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Old May 20th, 2018, 19:54   #12
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BTW: What OH is talking about is not only exactly right, but get a GOOD oil pump chain and tensioner. Bmangdog's ENTIRE PROBLEM was CAUSED by a CRAP oil pump, chain and tensioner. The Tensioner MELTED. The teeth on the sprocket were worn as bad as I have ever seen.

The tensioner was black plastic. VW tensioners are NEVER black. They are beige colored. The sprocket was unmarked and looked like pot metal. The melted tensioner pieces fell into the oil and were sucked up into the pickup tube to the oil pump, cutting off the oil to the oil pump and of course, to the entire engine. That is how the bearings failed.

It's a very sucky situation, that the oil pump kit was replaced with CRAP. I don't know where the parts came from, but if you EVER see a oil chain tensioner that has black tensioner, remember what happened to Bmangdog's engine. DON'T DO IT!
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'02 80k grey leather, 99.5 R.I.P 153k
'85A2 NA 375k, '91 A3 290k Always Silver, Always a Jetta

Last edited by Franko6; May 20th, 2018 at 20:00.
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Old May 21st, 2018, 04:08   #13
oilhammer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Franko6 View Post
BTW: What OH is talking about is not only exactly right, but get a GOOD oil pump chain and tensioner. Bmangdog's ENTIRE PROBLEM was CAUSED by a CRAP oil pump, chain and tensioner. The Tensioner MELTED. The teeth on the sprocket were worn as bad as I have ever seen.

The tensioner was black plastic. VW tensioners are NEVER black. They are beige colored. The sprocket was unmarked and looked like pot metal. The melted tensioner pieces fell into the oil and were sucked up into the pickup tube to the oil pump, cutting off the oil to the oil pump and of course, to the entire engine. That is how the bearings failed.

It's a very sucky situation, that the oil pump kit was replaced with CRAP. I don't know where the parts came from, but if you EVER see a oil chain tensioner that has black tensioner, remember what happened to Bmangdog's engine. DON'T DO IT!
Coulda fooled me:





Plenty of them are indeed black.... you probably just do not work on many of those, Frank.

(the one pictured is out of a 260k mile AVH engine, 100% OEM from the factory).
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Old May 21st, 2018, 05:15   #14
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Hm, I never work on the gassers. So, you are right. I guess black OEM tensioners are exclusive to gasoline VW Engines. The tensioner you show is in worse shape then we normally see on the TDI's. It is showing deeper grooves than we normally see and galling marks. It appears shorter than the TDI's, but maybe not. But the one in this is certainly short... It's GONE!


All I can tell you is this one that Brady has (Bmangdog) is black and it melted into pieces. I will get better pictures of the entire set of chain, tensioner and pump. Here is a good picture of the worst sprocket I have ever seen.

Note that the sprocket has a very rough texture and no numbers or letters on the face of the sprocket. The teeth are worn to a backward point. This is no doubt, CRAP.
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'02 80k grey leather, 99.5 R.I.P 153k
'85A2 NA 375k, '91 A3 290k Always Silver, Always a Jetta

Last edited by Franko6; May 21st, 2018 at 05:18.
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Old May 21st, 2018, 05:20   #15
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The gassers for sure wear faster, but the amount of wear seems to coincide with their lower gearing. So the actual "duty cycle" of the surface of the tensioner that has the chain grinding past it is certainly going to be higher.

I have seen a few diesels (my own ALH included at 383k) that were worn so far in that the material became so thin that it cracked. It was still intact, luckily.
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