2 litre 8v VS 1.9 litre 8v - Difference?

devonutopia

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 1, 2003
Location
Devon, U.K
TDI
PD300 Skoda Fabia
OK, I know :p 0.1 is the difference.....

Aside from that though, to the nitty gritty. What really is the difference between these two engines? I just wondered if ever (ok... when....) I have a bottom end meltdown, could I use a 2 litre 8v bottom end to gain a tiddly bit more power? I wondered if the block of the 2.0 is the same as the 1.9, the power is gained via a different crank/rods setup and therefore could also be used as donor parts?

In reality, I think if ever I were to look into bottom end tweaks I would go the whole hog and attempt something to achieve a 2.1 to 2.2 litre capacity....
 

G60ING

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 5, 2001
Location
MD
TDI
No TDIs Currently, I have an R36 Corrado. I've had an ALH Corrado swap, AHU Corrado swap and 2003 TDI Jetta
I know the aba blocks fairly well. If you wanted to use an ABA 2L block in place of an AHU I think you would have to:

  1. Swap in 82.5mm pistons (use a new block or make certain that is no wear from the piston rings)
  2. Swap in the tdi crank
  3. swap in the intermediate shaft pulley (maybe the whole shaft for clearance issues)
  4. drill and tap the oil return for the turbo
  5. Block breather port block off plate
Why not just bore your block out to use these 82.5mm pistons
 

keaton

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2009
Location
Mesa AZ, 85202
TDI
TDI-less ATM
why not take a 1.8L block that has 400k-500K+ miles then bore it out....

BMW did that in the 80's for their F1 cars, idea being that if the block was going to fail it would have done so by now. also millions of heat cycles with peak cylinder pressure it would compress the crystalline structure, similar to forging

just an idea....
 

G60ING

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 5, 2001
Location
MD
TDI
No TDIs Currently, I have an R36 Corrado. I've had an ALH Corrado swap, AHU Corrado swap and 2003 TDI Jetta
why not take a 1.8L block that has 400k-500K+ miles then bore it out....

BMW did that in the 80's for their F1 cars, idea being that if the block was going to fail it would have done so by now. also millions of heat cycles with peak cylinder pressure it would compress the crystalline structure, similar to forging

just an idea....
If the goal was for a higher revving TDI with a displacement less than 1.9 then this would be the way to go: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?p=3191007

The reason for using a 2L or 1.9L block is because the deck is taller than a 1.8L block.
 

keaton

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2009
Location
Mesa AZ, 85202
TDI
TDI-less ATM

OxyBolzen

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 13, 2010
Location
Kitchener, Ontario
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI Wagon
are we talking about the 2L diesel engine in the new cr diesels or the 2L gas engine that has been around for a long time? I cannot see the 2L gas engine block being as strong as the diesel block (why would it need to be?)
 

Lofty86

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
Location
Chippenham, UK
TDI
Mk5 VW Golf 2.0 16v PD140
Jason, you can drop 2L pistons in your 1.9 block a piece of pi$$. Just a rebore. Do it.

You can get 1.9 oversized (to make a 1975cc or whatever, or 2L, and maby even 2L oversized, but there might not be a lot of meat for your high cylinder pressure.
2L would be perfect.

D
 

TDIinTexas

Vendor
Joined
Jul 25, 2007
Location
Fort Worth, Texas
TDI
2002 Jetta TDI, 2010 JSW TDI
I don't know that there is much of a power difference, but there are differences in design that should make the 2L stronger.

The ALH crank is different than a BRM crank which is differentthan the BHW crank. The rod bearings are larger in the PD cranks, allowing you to run the PD150 rods. the ALH & BHW crank have larger counter weights, the BRM appears more "knifed".

I'm my current build we are using ALH block, BHW pistons and crank, PD150 Rostens with BRM oil pump.

This combination is aimed at strength.

David
 

Keebler145

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2008
Location
Niles, Ohio
TDI
Jetta MKIV 2000, 2003, and MKV 2006 PD DSG
I don't know that there is much of a power difference, but there are differences in design that should make the 2L stronger.

The ALH crank is different than a BRM crank which is differentthan the BHW crank. The rod bearings are larger in the PD cranks, allowing you to run the PD150 rods. the ALH & BHW crank have larger counter weights, the BRM appears more "knifed".

I'm my current build we are using ALH block, BHW pistons and crank, PD150 Rostens with BRM oil pump.

This combination is aimed at strength.

David

Someone corect me if I'm wrong, but the rosten rods can be used on an ALH crank... I mean I have rosten rods in my car right now..

I just read what David wrote again. He said he said PD150 rods not rosten, and then later said he was personally running PD150 rostens... I'm presuming two entirely different things. My apologies!
 

devonutopia

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 1, 2003
Location
Devon, U.K
TDI
PD300 Skoda Fabia
The difference between the 1.9 and 2.0 is just 79.5 vs 81mm bore.
Thanks. So to utilise those bottom end parts, a re-bore would be needed, unless somehow I could get away with a complete 2.0 8v bottom end transplant, i.e my head on a complete 2 litre bottom end? (Assume therefore I could also re-use my Rosten rods too)

I keep thinking the heads must be the same too. Can anyone confirm this fact? (I would do some research on ETKA, but my version just locked itself out and I had to uninstall it, and not found another one yet (any assistance gratefully received :D))
 

K.I.T.T.

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2006
Location
Europe
TDI
PD75
FWIW (and it seems quite a few haven't realised this already), the OP's engine is a PD130 that (I think) already has rosten rods.

Is there anything that suggests the 2l bottom end is stronger? The only (minor) difference that stands out to me is the slightly lower (18.5:1 vs 19:1) CR.

Ash :)
 

keaton

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2009
Location
Mesa AZ, 85202
TDI
TDI-less ATM
Thanks. So to utilise those bottom end parts, a re-bore would be needed, unless somehow I could get away with a complete 2.0 8v bottom end transplant, i.e my head on a complete 2 litre bottom end? (Assume therefore I could also re-use my Rosten rods too)

I keep thinking the heads must be the same too. Can anyone confirm this fact? (I would do some research on ETKA, but my version just locked itself out and I had to uninstall it, and not found another one yet (any assistance gratefully received :D))
just dont reuse the bolts, blocks with windows in them is not a light weight mod ;)
 

devonutopia

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 1, 2003
Location
Devon, U.K
TDI
PD300 Skoda Fabia
just dont reuse the bolts, blocks with windows in them is not a light weight mod ;)
LOL - thanks for the tip. :D Yes, I would renew the star bolts that clamps them together. To be honest, if I were going to do this, I would look for pistons around 83mm or so that I could simply swap on to my current crank/rods setup, and gain capacity that way.
 

TDIinTexas

Vendor
Joined
Jul 25, 2007
Location
Fort Worth, Texas
TDI
2002 Jetta TDI, 2010 JSW TDI
Someone corect me if I'm wrong, but the rosten rods can be used on an ALH crank... I mean I have rosten rods in my car right now..

I just read what David wrote again. He said he said PD150 rods not rosten, and then later said he was personally running PD150 rostens... I'm presuming two entirely different things. My apologies!
I'm using PD150 Rostens. Sorry. ALH Rostens have smaller big end bearings and not tapered heads, thus not working with PD (BHW) pistons.
 

TDIinTexas

Vendor
Joined
Jul 25, 2007
Location
Fort Worth, Texas
TDI
2002 Jetta TDI, 2010 JSW TDI
Someone corect me if I'm wrong, but the rosten rods can be used on an ALH crank... I mean I have rosten rods in my car right now..

I just read what David wrote again. He said he said PD150 rods not rosten, and then later said he was personally running PD150 rostens... I'm presuming two entirely different things. My apologies!
I'm using PD150 Rostens. Sorry. ALH Rostens have smaller big end bearings and not tapered heads, thus not working with PD (BHW) pistons.
 

jimbote

Certified Volkswagen Nut
Joined
Jul 10, 2006
Location
spiral arm, milky way (aka central NC)
TDI
Tacoma 4x4 converted to TDI
Thanks. So to utilise those bottom end parts, a re-bore would be needed, unless somehow I could get away with a complete 2.0 8v bottom end transplant, i.e my head on a complete 2 litre bottom end? (Assume therefore I could also re-use my Rosten rods too)

I keep thinking the heads must be the same too. Can anyone confirm this fact? (I would do some research on ETKA, but my version just locked itself out and I had to uninstall it, and not found another one yet (any assistance gratefully received :D))
I guess your running a PD head?.... still should be able to swap 8v for 8v ..... http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=308134
 

brum

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2009
Location
Bulgaria
TDI
Passat B5, 1.9 TDI, AFN
One small note - the engine mount on the 1.9TDI PD and VP engines are different (on different places). At least this is the case for the longitudinal engines. I suppose there may be some differences between the 1.9 PD and the 2.0 blocks also.

And the differences are not small - AC compressor mount has a few mm offset to the front, the engine mount has a few cm offset to the front again. Realized this after I moved to the 6 speed gearbox and had to use the long starter motor that required removal of the old AC compressor ...
 
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