Differences between US and European settlements

LRTDI · Dec 10, 2016

FRANKFURT — Volkswagen owners in the United States will receive about $20,000 per car as compensation for the company’s diesel deception. Volkswagen owners in Europe at most get a software update and a short length of plastic tubing.

The startling gap in treatment is the result of European laws that shield corporations from class-action suits brought by unhappy consumers. Now a group of online legal start-ups wants to change the status quo.

Lawyers in Berlin, Paris and elsewhere in Europe are teaming up with new online services to recruit clients en masse and try to get around the usual restrictions on consumer lawsuits. If they are successful, the cost to Volkswagen will dwarf the company’s $15 billion settlement in the United States.

Full article here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/16/b...atedCoverage&region=Marginalia&pgtype=article

2015vwgolfdiesel · Dec 10, 2016

LRTDI said:
FRANKFURT — Volkswagen owners in the United States will receive about $20,000 per car as compensation for the company’s diesel deception. Volkswagen owners in Europe at most get a software update and a short length of plastic tubing.
The startling gap in treatment is the result of European laws that shield corporations from class-action suits brought by unhappy consumers. Now a group of online legal start-ups wants to change the status quo.
Lawyers in Berlin, Paris and elsewhere in Europe are teaming up with new online services to recruit clients en masse and try to get around the usual restrictions on consumer lawsuits. If they are successful, the cost to Volkswagen will dwarf the company’s $15 billion settlement in the United States.
Full article here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/16/b...atedCoverage&region=Marginalia&pgtype=article

.....sooooo
'merica get a better settlement than euro laws allow

bubbagumpshrimp · Dec 10, 2016

Volkswagen owners in the United States will receive about $20,000 per car as compensation for the company’s diesel deception. Volkswagen owners in Europe at most get a software update and a short length of plastic tubing.

No one in the U.S. is receiving $20,000 in compensation.

Owners’ representatives in Europe are seeking a maximum of 5,000 euros per car, or about $5,600, much less than in the United States.

No...that's pretty much identical to the U.S. compensation amount.

If you have a problem with your laws, the time to express that is on election day...at the ballot box. European consumers are getting d1cked over because their politicians have allowed it to happen.

I don't get the misplaced anger directed at the U.S. Well...I guess I do...we have decent consumer protection laws...they do not.

2015vwgolfdiesel · Dec 10, 2016

bubbagumpshrimp said:
If you have a problem with your laws, the time to express that is on election day...at the ballot box. European consumers are getting d1cked over because their politicians have allowed it to happen.

.

euro car owners are messed over at the ballot box with the screw me harder voters

not to mention 'usens just had a little swing to the middle ~~ as in what do we have to lose

maybe368 · Dec 11, 2016

bubbagumpshrimp said:
No one in the U.S. is receiving $20,000 in compensation.

I think that may be an average of the total payout for a buyback, it is the only way that it makes sense...Mark

bubbagumpshrimp · Dec 11, 2016

maybe368 said:
I think that may be an average of the total payout for a buyback, it is the only way that it makes sense...Mark

Yup. That's exactly what it is. Modern journalism...never let facts get in the way of a good story.

ZippyNH · Dec 11, 2016

And then consider the magnitude of the issue...
USA emissions rules are much tighter....the euro rules more relaxed....
So the degree of the cheating was SEVERAL ORDERS IF MAGNITUDE different.
Sure...a cheat is a cheat....but barely missing and 40x off is a big difference.

dmarsingill · Dec 11, 2016

ZippyNH said:
And then consider the magnitude of the issue...
USA emissions rules are much tighter....the euro rules more relaxed....
So the degree of the cheating was SEVERAL ORDERS IF MAGNITUDE different.
Sure...a cheat is a cheat....but barely missing and 40x off is a big difference.

40x a minuscule number is not a big difference.

10x.1=1 40x.1=4.........not much difference....just saying

Donald

2015vwgolfdiesel · Dec 11, 2016

dmarsingill said:
40x a minuscule number is not a big difference.

10x.1=1 40x.1=4.........not much difference....just saying

Donald

Maybe with Pruitt gets to head EPA "STUFF" like this will be less of a "THANG."

maybe368 · Dec 11, 2016

2015vwgolfdiesel said:
Maybe with Pruitt gets to head EPA "STUFF" like this will be less of a "THANG."

Enjoy your dirty air

...Mark

dmarsingill · Dec 11, 2016

maybe368 said:
Enjoy your dirty air ...Mark

I will say it one last time(and I don't condone VW cheating) The 500,000 TDis making up to 40x the NOx will not change the air quality. Where I live, our air is pretty good. Thanks for caring.

Donald

maybe368 · Dec 11, 2016

dmarsingill said:
I will say it one last time(and I don't condone VW cheating) The 500,000 TDis making up to 40x the NOx will not change the air quality. Where I live, our air is pretty good. Thanks for caring.

Donald

I was referring to the reference to Pruitt, try reading the quote Donald

...Mark

dmarsingill · Dec 11, 2016

maybe368 said:
I was referring to the reference to Pruitt, try reading the quote Donald...Mark

I know what you were referring to.........I just think your "dirty air" guilt trip is way off base.

Donald

scooperhsd · Dec 11, 2016

dmarsingill said:
I know what you were referring to.........I just think your "dirty air" guilt trip is way off base.

Donald

Got to agree here too. If you live where "you can't see what you breathe" (like most of us in non-LA land) - you don't really "see" the need for any tougher standards. If LA is THAT BAD - maybe they ought to outlaw (or severely restrict) all ICE vehicles and see if it helps (bet it doesn't) .

maybe368 · Dec 11, 2016

dmarsingill said:
I know what you were referring to.........I just think your "dirty air" guilt trip is way off base.

Donald

Well, We'll find out when we light up all of the coal fired plants. His record is very clear, you can bet your kid's lungs on that. Or great grand-kids lungs or whatever. You are allowed your own opinion, not your own facts. Your big house there in the Atlanta suburbs may have clean air now, but we will see how that plays out...Mark

dmarsingill · Dec 11, 2016

maybe368 said:
Well, We'll find out when we light up all of the coal fired plants. His record is very clear, you can bet your kid's lungs on that. Or great grand-kids lungs or whatever. You are allowed your own opinion, not your own facts. Your big house there in the Atlanta suburbs may have clean air now, but we will see how that plays out...Mark

No coal plants near me.....only nuclear and hydrostatic. I think you are being paranoid. Besides....do you think that all emissions stuff will get removed? I'm pretty sure it was just "talk" about loosening it up a bit.

Donald

maybe368 · Dec 11, 2016

dmarsingill said:
No coal plants near me.....only nuclear and hydrostatic. I think you are being paranoid. Besides....do you think that all emissions stuff will get removed? I'm pretty sure it was just "talk" about loosening it up a bit.

Donald

I don't really care what you think. You can think what you want and I can reject your opinion...Mark

TDIinMA · Dec 11, 2016

bubbagumpshrimp said:
Owners’ representatives in Europe are seeking a maximum of 5,000 euros per car, or about $5,600, much less than in the United States.

Click to expand...

No...that's pretty much identical to the U.S. compensation amount.

Plus, the actual exchange for $5000 US Dollars is 6294.97 pounds (and that rate is better than it has been in a while.).

bizzle · Dec 12, 2016

scooperhsd said:
Got to agree here too. If you live where "you can't see what you breathe" (like most of us in non-LA land) - you don't really "see" the need for any tougher standards. If LA is THAT BAD - maybe they ought to outlaw (or severely restrict) all ICE vehicles and see if it helps (bet it doesn't) .

I think the only thing coming out of tailpipes you can "see" that will kill you is soot. Everything else is invisible to the naked eye, but it'll kill ya plenty nonetheless.

Never understood this logic whenever I've seen it all over rural Oregon and a few remaining counties in California without smog requirements. If it ain't being seen it ain't there

Reality to me is even if it's not there now put limits before it becomes a problem. We had to do a tremendous amount of drastic action to get LA's air quality down to a point it didn't sting our eyes. It would have been a lot easier if we didn't let it get that bad in the first place.

2015vwgolfdiesel · Dec 12, 2016

maybe368 said:
Well, We'll find out when we light up all of the coal fired plants. His record is very clear, you can bet your kid's lungs on that. Or great grand-kids lungs or whatever. You are allowed your own opinion, not your own facts. Your big house there in the Atlanta suburbs may have clean air now, but we will see how that plays out...Mark

Clean Coal Plants ~~ if you please

As for the EPA ~~ is not that dieselgate (and CARB)?

BTW is not china still firing one coal plant weekly

maybe368 · Dec 12, 2016

2015vwgolfdiesel said:
Clean Coal Plants ~~ if you please

As for the EPA ~~ is not that dieselgate (and CARB)?

BTW is not china still firing one coal plant weekly

Is China now the new model for how we should act? There is no such thing as clean coal and, while there may be some onerous rules, overall the EPA has worked. Our air is much cleaner than it was. Our water is much cleaner than it was. Pruitt is a science denier and is in the pockets of the coal and petroleum industries, it is like putting the fox in charge of the hen house. How clean is too clean? Would you accept a plate in a restaurant that is 98% clean? I don't live in LA. but the Valley of the Sun is very similar, without the Santa Ana winds to clean out the putrid air. As Donald says, you may not live near a coal fired plant, but the largest one in the country is in AZ, as well as the largest Nuclear plant in the country...Mark

dmarsingill · Dec 12, 2016

maybe368 said:
Is China now the new model for how we should act? There is no such thing as clean coal and, while there may be some onerous rules, overall the EPA has worked. Our air is much cleaner than it was. Our water is much cleaner than it was. Pruitt is a science denier and is in the pockets of the coal and petroleum industries, it is like putting the fox in charge of the hen house. How clean is too clean? Would you accept a plate in a restaurant that is 98% clean? I don't live in LA. but the Valley of the Sun is very similar, without the Santa Ana winds to clean out the putrid air. As Donald says, you may not live near a coal fired plant, but the largest one in the country is in AZ, as well as the largest Nuclear plant in the country...Mark

These people are doing a good job at cleaning their coal burning....
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/...ndary-dam-test-for-clean-coal-one-year-later/

By the way....if you didn't care what I think, you wouldn't be arguing with me!!

Donald

maybe368 · Dec 12, 2016

dmarsingill said:
These people are doing a good job at cleaning their coal burning....
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/...ndary-dam-test-for-clean-coal-one-year-later/

By the way....if you didn't care what I think, you wouldn't be arguing with me!!

Donald

Maybe, but they shut down the coal fired parts of the 4 corners plant because of the cost of the scrubbers. Are they willing to spend billions to try this? We'll see...It takes 2 to argue, that is what my mother always said. Ever since you responded the first time to one of my posts in threadzilla, you have responded to my posts, not the other way around. I have responded to you after you responded to me. And, in my opinion, you have been very condescending to me, which honestly pisses me off, as I have been around the block a few times. I don't mind a lively debate, in fact I like it, but I don't want to be lectured by you about how wrong I am. You want a lively debate? Let's go, if you want to be condescending, then I don't care what you say...Mark

bizzle · Dec 12, 2016

The problem is that you two likely could meet in the middle understanding the need/use for coal plants along with the use of cleaning that production up to a point where the economics of it don't strangle the plant.

But that's on a completely different plane of existence from who we were talking about, someone who just simply flat out denies there is any problem whatsoever and who wants to roll back regulations to a pre-EPA era.

Fox in the henhouse is one saying already mentioned.
Another one might be throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
All kinds of sayings we can post but, in general, I find nearly the entire country is somewhat in the middle of these issues and our ability to get anything positive done is hindered by extremists.

Right now we're going to have policy entirely dictated by one set of extremists. Somehow getting an opposite faction of extremism is not going to resolve that issue so I just don't see how any long-term good can come from this path.

maybe368 · Dec 12, 2016

bizzle said:
The problem is that you two likely could meet in the middle understanding the need/use for coal plants along with the use of cleaning that production up to a point where the economics of it don't strangle the plant.

But that's on a completely different plane of existence from who we were talking about, someone who just simply flat out denies there is any problem whatsoever and who wants to roll back regulations to a pre-EPA era.

Fox in the henhouse is one saying already mentioned.
Another one might be throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
All kinds of sayings we can post but, in general, I find nearly the entire country is somewhat in the middle of these issues and our ability to get anything positive done is hindered by extremists.

Right now we're going to have policy entirely dictated by one set of extremists. Somehow getting an opposite faction of extremism is not going to resolve that issue so I just don't see how any long-term good can come from this path.

I agree that the answer is usually found in the middle, but the only hope of that is if the middle comes through in congress and doesn't accept some of these nominations. I hope that it doesn't take the disappearance of Florida to convince some of these people. They are playing with people's health and I don't see my point of view on that as at all extreme...Mark

bizzle · Dec 12, 2016

That wasn't a shot at you, it was meant to preemptively respond to the inevitable, "leftists do [x]..."

I was considering you and him as part of the great majority of people would otherwise be able to meet in the middle (non-extremists).

maybe368 · Dec 12, 2016

bizzle said:
That wasn't a shot at you, it was meant to preemptively respond to the inevitable, "leftists do [x]..."

I was considering you and him as part of the great majority of people would otherwise be able to meet in the middle (non-extremists).

Ok, gotcha...Mark

dmarsingill · Dec 13, 2016

I am a realist......as long as things are progressing without too much restriction.....I am good. Screaming "everyone is going to die", in my opinion, never helps. Mark, that was not directed at you. Just saying, extreme views never end up good.

Donald

Differences between US and European settlements

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