CR170 Turbo and DPF?

Hello,

I'm a new CR140 owner. I have a long time before I will opt to mod my car. But, as you can imagine after what I did to my Mk3, you can be certain that I will retune my CR at the very least.

One thing I really like is the total lack of smoke! My AHU's smoke gets a little old sometimes, especially if I'm not simply BLASTING away from it. So, my question, can the CR140 be tuned with a CR170 for more power, but to keep the DPF for no smoke? Or will that foul the DPF too quickly? My goal is power, compliance and smoke-free. Is it worth it?

PS: I searched specifically for "CR AND DPF" with no luck. I hope creating this topic isn't too rudimentary and will give others with the same curiosity a good search result.

Thanks!

Scott

You can tune your CR140 to the limit of it's stock turbo potential and retain all OE emissions devices and functionality (Malone Stage 2 for example).

If you upgrade to the CR170 turbo for more (Stage 3 tuning), you loose this ability to retain emissions devices without some serious fab work. The CR170 turbo not only has it's EGR port in another location on the manifold, it also lacks the port in the compressor housing for the LP EGR introduction.

All that said, even deleted (off road) CRs are not very smokey with a good tune. Perhaps not as totally smoke free as OE, but nothing like some modded VE cars I have seen.

DPF will still bolt up...

You can tune it dpfless and smokeless too...

JFettig - Are you saying the DPF can be bolted up and then tuned to not function? That's good "stealth" for those pesky visual inspections.

no I'm saying it can be bolted on and tuned TO function!

You could also just gut it if "stealth" is all you're after.

Okay. So, if it functions (which is good with me), will the extra load/power cause it to fail prematurely? What kind of power and torque could one expect with a CR170 turbo, a functioning DPF and a suitable tune?

I may be totally off here, JFettig and numerous others can correct me... But bumping up from a stock to a CR170 with say a stage 3 tune will only gain you around 20-25 hp, and that's with a DPF delete and turbo-back exhaust. With the DPF, you're really not allowing that turbo to function to its utmost potential. As mentioned numerous times before, a stage 1.5-2.0 tune (with or without compliance/DPF) is the best bang for your buck. You get +25-30 hp and +65-70 torque for a fair price on a stage 1.5 or 2 tune. To get your car from the then 170/300 to +200/350 or 400 demands much more time, $, hardware, and ingenuity than your plug and play tunes. Exponential cost/power gains above the 200hp/300tq range. I will consider bumping up to a big turbo kit in the NOT so near future in order to make turbo modding (in my opinion) worth the hassle. I am not a diesel mechanic or a turbo expert like JF, so I have to save my $$ in loads to have things done and done right... Just my feeble $0.02 -

Stealth,
I just read your signature and read about your stealth MK3... Please disregard my previous post in its entirety as you already knew all (and much, much more) than everything I said there. Keep us updated on your mods...

These engines are built as heat pumps and really have a very high AFR to reduce smoke and emissions. Stage 1 w/dpf tunes reduce that AFR and will shorten the dpf life, but typically for customers who only baby it ( clean it out and it will last longer). Stage 2 w/dpf puts you in the area where you are bouncing off the egt limiter and imo not good for turbo life. Stage 3 with dpf tuned conservatively should net you ~175whp with longer turbo and dpf life and less smoke. You will need to remove the lp egr assembly or custom plum it in... I would just remove it and run the passat pd hp egr cooler and setup and call it a day. Thats what my gtb2060vklr setup is currently running.

Just a point of data..
Despite the now-dirty tailpipe (it was spotless before the upgrades) the car in my sig shows ZERO smoke, EVER. I have literally not once even seen a haze behind the car.. even driving at night looking for it through the headlights behind me.

That said.. I'm currently "driving around" a 2krpm torque spike for fear of fragging my DMF.. maybe it'd smoke there if I caned it.

Good Morning,

Thanks for the replies, everyone. Bloc, I'll have to send you a PM with more questions when I have more time.

Kman308 said:

Stealth - I just read your signature and read about your stealth MK3... Please disregard my previous post in its entirety as you already knew all (and much, much more) than everything I said there. Keep us updated on your mods...

Click to expand...

I appreciate your input anyway. As a longtime owner of the Mk3 and a B5.5 w/1.8T with no intentions of buying a new car soon, I really took no initiative to learn about the newer cars. I simply had no "need to know." While I do have some background on TDIs, the CR's really are a different beast. I'm not a total newb, but my level of expertise on this engine is simply not the same as what I know about the car I've had for over 16 years.

Thanks Again,

Scott

PS: This car (wife's) has impressed me so much that I'm buying another one for myself. IT WILL BE MODIFIED once the warranty is gone. Of course, it will still LOOK stock.

Stealth! Congrats on the car!
I'm not sure on the CR tuning, but I wanted to add that I don't feel VE engines have to be smoky, it depends on the way it's tuned.

I had a smokey VE on tip in, not at full boost. Until I was able to tune it myself, I was always trying to fiddle around to get it smoke minimally, but just giving it throttle would make a huge cloud of smoke. Side effect, it would soot up the turbo, clogging the vanes after some time!

What I found is that my tune had only used the smoke map until 950 or so mg/s MAF!
That means past 950mg/s MAF (15 psi boost on gauge), I was getting full fueling BEFORE my peak boost of 24 psi gauge!
Turns out the ALH ecu (and other EDC15 I assume) have an internal limit of 1000 mg/s on using maf readings, though you can use much more, especially mid range when the MAF isn't saturated.

So, I retuned it and it's got similar power for the peak boost, but is smoke free on spool. A little bit more lag than before, but I didn't want to soot up my turbo!

I guess the CR tunes have to do this: to be strict about AFR, like I did on my ALH tuning to be smoke free.

Ok looking for inducer and exducer measurements on Cr170 vs Cr140 on exhaust side... wondering if I can just swap compressor housings from 170 to 140. Had an accident and broke exhaust housing on 170.
Please help.
New 170 housing $600+
140 housing $100 at junk yard without Vnt actuator.

This topic is more of a DPF/CR170 functionality thread than what you're after. Perhaps you'll get better luck in the other thread where you cross-posted. These threads are read by all the same people. Good luck!

My stage 3.5 is kinda smokey on WOT.

Stage 2 and DPF/EGR delete and no smoke at all.