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Upgrades (non TDI Engine related) The place of handling, lighting and other upgrades that do not relate to the performance or economy of the TDI engine. In other words upgrades to your TDI that don't fit into TDI Fuel Economy & TDI Engine Enhancements.Please note the Performance Disclaimer

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Old December 23rd, 2008, 15:04   #1
1sparrow
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Default Brake Upgrade

You may want to consider this upgrade. Glad I did. Now I can at least stop like a Porsche!

VW Jetta TDI & 2.0L 6/99-01 02 03 04 Brake Rotors Pads
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Old December 23rd, 2008, 18:17   #2
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I don't know about you but my weak point is where the rubber meets the road.

I suppose if I drove aggressively enough or if I did not use engine braking going down mountains, I might see improvement with rotor and pad upgrades.
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Old December 23rd, 2008, 20:01   #3
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Hi Joe
Two schools of thought here. The extra RPM's = unused miles. Engines are more expensive than brakes. And I am not a racer of any kind. This system is just superior period. That is why they are stock on high end cars. I do not sell em', Just sharing my positive experience. They will also be on wife's Jetta soon. OMO (They just feel good)
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Old December 23rd, 2008, 20:33   #4
Zwei Bora Tdi
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Default Brake Upgrade

Hey,

I did the ECS BB kit ( 20th AE/ R-32) front and rear. Upgraded the from pads to low dust and higher performance. I think they were Pagid. Anyway, one of the best mods you can do. I would like to add the Stoptech or Brembo 355mm upgrade, but people would call me names and put me down and say nasty things about me. The 12.5 front GTI BB from ECS I bought seems to do quite well though. Initial bite is a bit slow but they work great. On the track I heated them up quite quick on a 9 turn track/ 2.5 mile long course. If you have the money go with the BB kit of your choice. I will be studying the 355mm and adding them at some point, because I can and they look great and they perform darn good!
Just be aware you might get rear-ended soon. I have had that almost happen so many times with the kit I have! Happy Shopping!!
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Old December 24th, 2008, 06:09   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1sparrow
Hi Joe
Two schools of thought here. The extra RPM's = unused miles. Engines are more expensive than brakes. And I am not a racer of any kind. This system is just superior period. That is why they are stock on high end cars. I do not sell em', Just sharing my positive experience. They will also be on wife's Jetta soon. OMO (They just feel good)
Well engine braking provides slightly better mileage, but that is not a serious issue, at least for me.

For me the serious issue is safety first and on long downhill runs brakes can overheat and fail. I will not trade off a few RPM and a few days of engine life for reduced safety. However I believe we were talking primarily about situations where overheating brakes would not be a possibility and in those cases, your guess is as good as mine which would be cheaper in the long run brakes or RPM, but keep in mind favoring brakes tends to reduce mileage. Life is full of tradeoffs .
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Old December 24th, 2008, 13:32   #6
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Hi Joe

Twenty years ago I was 100% with you on this. Now my thinking is two identical cars one auto the other standard. And all things equal maintenance miles environment. I would buy the automatics motor over the standard just on the wear factor. But what else would you expect from someone that uses Schaeffer 9000 5w40. LOL

Merry Christmas to ALL
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Old December 24th, 2008, 14:26   #7
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ZB Tdi

We are out of the closet ! It is not a bad thing to want to STOP. You are in the advanced class. This is my first upgrade. I pondered the ceramic pads for years. When I found this system I knew the time had arrived. I have not detected any tendency to nose dive.
Merry Christmas
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Old December 25th, 2008, 04:52   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1sparrow
Now my thinking is two identical cars one auto the other standard. And all things equal maintenance miles environment. I would buy the automatics motor over the standard just on the wear factor.
I would also for a city driver anyway. The auto is likely to put less stress on the engine, however, I believe that in most cases the final real life rpm to mph ratio means most cars with automatics will run at a slightly higher rpm at highway speed than manuals.

In real life, it would expect a lot of other factors to be more important with, luck being high on the list.
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Old December 26th, 2008, 10:11   #9
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Here's a nice little thread discussing the worth of going big for the rear brakes...
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3795913
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Old December 26th, 2008, 16:18   #10
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Why we should read the directions! ---- Almost blew this one.
(powerstop.com)

IMPORTANT :BREAK IN NEW FRICTION USING THE PAD BEDDING PROCEDURE AS FOLLOWS.PROPER PAD BEDDING CAN PREVENT ROTOR WARPING.
The break in procedure is critical ! if you do not break in pad properly ,it can result in break pedal pulsation and thermal shock to the rotor causing stress cracks.Break in the pads as follow:

5 aggressive stop at 50 mph to 10 mph without letting the brakes cool and try not to come to a complete stop.Then do 5 moderate stop at 30 mph to 5 mph and do not let the rotors cool after each brake application .You should expect to smell some burning resin.Finally drive around a little and let the brakes cool down.
For the first 100 miles,avoid towing or hauling loads while the pad completes the resin cure.
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Old December 26th, 2008, 21:02   #12
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I would never buy slotted rotors.They seem to wrap faster than regular
or drilled ones
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Old December 26th, 2008, 21:54   #13
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I know some people that are not fans for the cross drilled, however neither myself nor my customers have had issues with them.

Why do you think that all the high end cars have cross drilling? There are performance benefits! Warping actually is less likely with cross drilled than it is with standard rotors. Temperatures are reduced significantly over standard rotors. You'd think it'd be like a cheese grater compared to standard rotors, but with my MK3 with front drilled/ceramic and rear drum they lasted about 80,000 miles. And this was with a lot of aggressive driving along with a lot of towing...

As taken from the internet:
Quote:
There are many claims as to the benefits of drilled vs slotted rotors on stopping power. This guide is intended to provide some facts about drilled and slotted rotors. As a member of the SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers), I was pleased to see a paper "The Effect of Rotor Crossdrilling on Brake Performance" by two GM engineers published in 2006. They examined three vehicle platforms with cross-drilled rotors vs standard rotors to measure convection cooling capability, fade characteristics, wet braking, pedal feel and lining wear. The result is summarized as follows:
  1. For the sports sedan, the coefficient of friction was 21% higher for drilled rotors than standard front rotors at 340F and higher using 15 brake snubs at 62mph. The track simulated 124 mph fade test showed 37% better brake output for drilled rotors. The drilled rotor brake temperature was about 150 degrees cooler.
  2. For the performance car, the coefficient of friction was significantly higher for drilled rotors especially at high temperature.
  3. Wet braking at high pedal pressure was the same for drilled or standard rotors. Wet braking is not significantly improved by drilled rotors.
  4. Pedal force was much more consistent with drilled rotors over the brake temperature range. That is, to stop at the same deceleration rate, the driver does not need to modulate pedal pressure based on different brake temperatures. This reduces driver fatigue and improves brake response.
The authors also reported that drilled rotors prevent pad resin glazing on the rotor. So we now have solid evidence that drilled rotors have benefits over standard rotors. However, I have not found any published paper to show how slots affect brake output. So I reviewed inertial dynamometer tests using ISO NWI 26867 from Link Testing in Detroit with slotted rotors vs standard rotors. The results showed no significant difference in the coefficient of friction during the fade sections, hot stop section or pedal sensitivity portion of the test. My hypothesis is that slotted rotors do not contribute to rotor cooling whereas drilled rotors improve convection heat transfer to cool rotors and reduce brake fade. I should also point out that the pad lining wear for the slotted rotor was very severe during the test, i.e. the pad was chewed up over 20% more than the lining with stock rotors. While I believe that slots will help remove gas and debri from under the pad, I am not sure that this has a significant effect on brake torque for normal street driving. Perhaps the effect of slotted rotors is more significant on the race track, and conversely, I believe that drilled rotors are better for street and highway driving. For most drivers, I recommend drilled rotors over slotted rotors, and this conclusion is supported by the fact that Corvette, Ford GT, Porsche, Mercedes and BMW come with OEM drilled rotors.
Anyway, I'm a fan of drilled, but that's me... my 312mm fronts and 256mm rears are all cross drilled & slotted...
YMMV,
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Old December 27th, 2008, 23:34   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BleachedBora
I know some people that are not fans for the cross drilled, however neither myself nor my customers have had issues with them.

Why do you think that all the high end cars have cross drilling? There are performance benefits! Warping actually is less likely with cross drilled than it is with standard rotors. Temperatures are reduced significantly over standard rotors.

As taken from the internet:
I think drilled rotors look cool too but they don't make you stop shorter. I am not the most experienced or knowledgable person on the subject but I know enough and chat with people who spend thousands on brakes every season.

1. You don't have cracking issues because the brakes are overkill for the application...not that it's a bad thing! A Golf R32 brake kit is designed to stop a 3400 lb car. Put it on a 2800 lb car and obviously it's not going to be stressed. Just remember that for most cars, the tires are the limiting factor in braking.

2. Drilled rotors are inferior to solid rotors. Instead of drilling holes to reduce weight, a smaller rotor is a better way to reduce weight. The holes have almost no effect on promoting air flow. Real race applications use brake ducting, not holes in the rotor. Everything else being equal, they are more susceptible to cracking than solid rotors. Again, they cool off better because they heat up more. When you stop, that energy is going into less mass so they heat up more, everything else being equal. You might find them on some race cars due to sponsorship or they throw away the rotors every other race but this is the exception.

3. Drilled rotors are used on some high end cars because of marketing. Same reason you can buy the "Siberia off road rally pack" (no it's not a joke) on Porsche Cayennes. Carbon cermaic rotors are starting to show up as an option at $5-7,000 per rotor and they don't stop any shorter on the street than cars that use the stock rotors. I guarantee you that for 99.99% of drivers, they'd stop better if they put that money into driver training instead of fancy brakes.

4. Coefficient of friction is only part of the picture in braking. You can adjust the coefficient of friction of either the pad or rotor and it won't make you stop shorter. Friction and brake torque do not equal shorter stopping! They can dramatically change brake feel but brake feel does not equal shorter stopping. This is a major source of confusion.

Here's another "as taken from the internet". Read the links below and hopefully this will change your mind. The SAE paper doesn't mean much without the test conditions. For all you know the pads and rotors tested were not comparable in class. I'm not saying don't sell drilled rotors, just know what's fact from myth. Why not sell 2 piece rotors? At least those significantly reduce unsprung weight. I bought a big brake kit for my other car because it looks cool and that is usually reason enough.

Read the whole FAQ article and both magazine scans. They dispel many myths right off the bat.
http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q/brake_FAQ.htm

Compliation of brake threads from a corvette forum. My FAQ summarizes hundreds of those posts into 1 easy page.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-t...f-threads.html

Last edited by chittychittybangbang; December 27th, 2008 at 23:38.
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Old December 28th, 2008, 13:37   #15
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chittychittybangbang

Appears to me the Quality of material in the pads and rotors escaped you. Your problem is with cross drilling. Am I wrong on this!
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