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Go Back   TDIClub Forums > VW TDI Discussion Areas > Upgrades (non TDI Engine related)

Upgrades (non TDI Engine related) The place of handling, lighting and other upgrades that do not relate to the performance or economy of the TDI engine. In other words upgrades to your TDI that don't fit into TDI Fuel Economy & TDI Engine Enhancements.Please note the Performance Disclaimer

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Old December 29th, 2006, 13:32   #166
alphaseinor
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Denton, TX
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hrm... makes me wonder if yours is different than mine in some way... open the box and take a photo of the relay from the inside... let me see if it's a little different...

You may have to bypass the logic circuit on the board (I actually have done that on mine)... essentially removing all of the surface mount items, leaving the relay, then wiring directly. however there should be an easier way...

One of the leads should be grounded, one should be positive is what I meant... if that doesn't work, then we'll just have to gut the relay box. I'll see if I can post some photos of my relay... hopefully this isn't a 1999.5 only part.
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Old December 29th, 2006, 15:33   #167
chirorob
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I stared at your "declawing" post - that one makes sense. I had a break so I drove home and tested things out.

Here is what works - bridge the two wires at the TCU again, then ground them (I just hooked the pair into the brown wire on pin 7 of the relay).

I then checked the yellow/blue wire, as it should have power when the ignition switch is turned on according to the short-version posted.

That wire (yellow/blue) DID NOT have power on it with ignition turned to start, so I bridged the green/black and yellow/blue at the relay. Hit the igition switch and Vrooooom.

I had to run back to work, but I'll have to go over the wiring once again when I get off work. I checked, and what I had is the green/black to one side of the reverse switch on the transmission, and the yellow/blue to the other side of the reverse switch.

EDIT: After looking at the GdB wiring instructions - that is what I followed as I read it.... I'm thinking if wired that way then the only way it would start is if you had the car in reverse. My shifter doesn't work (STILL) because the part just arrived at my father-in-law's shop today and will be overnighted Fedex Saturday delivery to arrive tomorrow. I can't test my theory at the moment, but if the reverse switch is open, then it will not connect the yellow/blue to the green/black. Put the car in reverse and it should close the reverse switch applying power from green/black to the blue/yellow and also the blue/black -> reverse lights. This would complete the circuit and flip that switch inside the relay allowing the solid red to bridge to the red/black -> starter. (Unless, of course, that is a normally closed switch for the reverse lights)

Maybe I screwed up that part (haven't looked at the diagram again since coming back), but otherwise all that is needed is a direct connect between those two wires, and a grounding of the red/yellow and red/grey to get the car to start properly.

EDIT2: Alright, after looking at it again, the blue/yellow shouldn't matter at all if the start circuit is indeed separate as indicated on the short version of the circuit diagram. If the logic circuit somehow cuts power (or ground) to the starter circuit then that would explain the issues I was having. I'll have to check the reverse lights to see if they come on when I bridge yellow/blue to the green/black. If I'm reading it right then by bridging the two I'd have the reverse lights on 24/7.

Last edited by chirorob; December 29th, 2006 at 15:55.
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Old December 29th, 2006, 20:45   #168
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wired as above = no reverse lights at startup, no full time reverse lights, but I can not test to see if the reverse lights actually come on when the car is in reverse.

I'll apologize in advance for the pictures I'm about to post - all I have is my camera phone at the moment.
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Old December 29th, 2006, 21:09   #169
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Old December 29th, 2006, 22:06   #170
NDVW
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I have a question before I decide to jump in with both feet in swaping out my auto. Is the transmission from a NB the same as in a Jetta? Have one scoped out for 500 nearby w/70000 miles on it.


Jamie
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Old December 30th, 2006, 01:06   #171
alphaseinor
 
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That looks identical to mine... I'll be able to take a photo when I get off of work (long story...). I'll be able to post sometime tomorrow with my soldering job.

basically, all of the SM junk on the bottom goes away... then you have to connect the correct wires for the relay to work.
it needs:
12v+
Gnd
Switched 12v
output (to starter)

Since the relay is just a switch that is electromagnetically closed or open (in this case open) The constant (non switched) 12v+ is on the switch side of the relay (it's the one with the movable contact) and the other side of the contact is the starter. Since it's a coil, it doesn't matter which side is positive or negative on the coil, it will still actuate the switched side. but the coil should be the side that is the switched 12v connected to a ground on the other side of the coil.

as for NDVW... the transmission is the same, but the rest is different... make sure it's from a TDI... check car-part.com I'm nearly positive the axels are a different length, but I'm not sure.
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Old December 30th, 2006, 01:15   #172
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BTW, the top relay is the one for the starter, the bottom one is for the reverse lights.
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Old December 30th, 2006, 07:35   #173
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Default new beetle auto swap....

Ok....I'm pretty sure any A4 TDI axle will work for your auto to manual swap.....and if you want to use your stock auto axles (they are stronger)all you have to do is swap out the flanges on your tranny with 108mm VR6 or 1.8 turbo flanges from an O2J tranny.....salvage yard interchange calls for the same axles on all A4 manual TDI's golf/jetta/new beetle(left is TDI specific and right is the same for gassers and diesel alike).....and when I did a lookup at work on the vr6/1.8turbo axles for the jetta exactly the same part number as auto gasser axles....I even got under my Y2K bug with a verinier caliper took some carefull measurements of my auto tranny and compared them to the donor manual tranny ....exactly the same dimension as far as flange to flange distance, and even diff centerline is the same.....
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Old December 30th, 2006, 11:09   #174
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Sweet info jimbote.

My little tidbit for today: The shifter piece came in and was installed in about 45 seconds... and then another 3 tries to get it shifting nicely.

I confirmed my hunch - at least on my 2002 jetta wagon if you wire it like alphaseinor/ GdB said before then the car will only start if shifted into reverse.

Hmm... I'm thinking it over - do I want to keep it that way as a "security feature", or hotwire it by connecting the green/black to the blue/yellow?

After further consideration, however, I got to thinking about the clutch switch. Now YMMV completely here, because Alphaseinor says his clutch switch is normally closed, and open when the clutch is pushed in.
I checked what I thought was my clutch switch - blue in color, and located lower on the clutch pedal. (This was the one I broke off when installing the pedal) I actually get connection on that one with the pin pushed in or out, it is just always closed. I totally could have broken it internally when the blue outside part cracked though, so I can't be sure about it.

I have a second clutch switch, which is white and located way up at the top of the pedal assembly. Bingo! Normally open, push the clutch pedal in and it closes the switch.

For my application at least here is the proper wiring scheme to get it to work including the clutch switch.


Automatic to Manual wiring instructions for a 2002 Jetta Wagon TDI:
(should work for all A4s but YMMV)

Pop the lower dash panels off and pull out the relay panel.
Find relay 175

Cut the red/grey wire and red/yellow wires and ground them.

Now you get to decide how you want your car to work, and wire accordingly.

Cranking options:
1) To start only in reverse, but still with no clutch safety switch just follow the engine bay instructions below
2) To start with no clutch safety switch, but also no gear requirement just connect the yellow/blue to the green/black on the back of relay 175.
3) To crank like a normal manual (no gear requirement, clutch must be pushed in) then connect the yellow/blue to one side of the white clutch switch and connect the green/black to the other side of the white clutch switch. * NOTE: Do NOT cut the green/black or yellow/blue but connect into them.

** Note: I'll leave the method of connection up to you. Some prefer to remove pins and insert new wires with pins properly into the harness, some prefer to solder, some may want to try clamp-on connectors. I went with the soldering method personally, and won't get into a which is best debate which I'm sure will ensue.

Now Go to the engine bay

Pull the airbox access panel by removing the 4 phillips screws and sliding it out and up.

Slide the TCU connector off by pushing the handle on the driver's side of the TCU toward the driver's side of the car (it is a sliding lock)
You can remove the TCU and try to ebay it, or just leave it sitting there.

Located in the wiring under the airbox area: take the transmission switch connector (pictured many pages back), and using your method of choice connect the yellow/blue wire to one side of the manual transmission reverse lamp switch. Connect the green/black wire to the other side of the transmission reverse lamp switch. (reverse lamp switch also pictured many pages back).

Tada! That should be it for the wiring.

I need to go back out and test my new clutch safety switch idea, but I see no reason at all why it wouldn't work.
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Old December 30th, 2006, 14:20   #175
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The clutch switch works, but now I don't have reverse lights, even if I hook it up the way it was before I still don't get reverse lights.

The car also starts if shifted in reverse with no clutch pushed in.

I checked the in cabin fuses, they are all good so that shouldn't be the issue with the reverse lights, but I really don't see what could have changed.

In other news, VAG-COM shows lots of faults, ABS, convenience, ECU, TCU etc.

I'm wondering if that TCU has other functions besides just the auto transmission, and what happens if we hook it back up?

The car drives fine, I can't believe how soft the clutch is, especially compared to my ACT XT/SS combo on my nissan.
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Old December 30th, 2006, 23:01   #176
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I actually have a Jetta...the transmission is out of a NB. Glad that they are the same. Now just have to give them a call and get all the parts I need.

Alphasenior....how much of an increase in mpg have you seen? Don't remember seeing you say or anyone ask you that. Just curious.

Keep up the good work. Hope you get the wiring sorted out


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Old December 31st, 2006, 07:59   #177
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Default start relay.....

Rob....I think what your running into is your trying to route the reverse lamps through the logic circuit on the PNP relay the relay sees input on from the reverse circuit and everything screws up.....on the manual cars there is no reverse relay, the switch handles all the current....I may be adding more fuel to the flame of frustration and I may be repeating informaton so please forgive , but try this for your starter circuit....the logic relay needs to see current from the Transmission Range Switch and since you don't have one anymore you need to "trick" the PNP relay into thinking the car is in neutral or park.....the wire that sends this 12v signal to the PNP is the red/yellow from the TRS, a good 12 volt source is already going to the relay it is the red/black wire coming from the theft starter lock relay...just tap into this (don't cut) and connect it to the loose end of the red/yellow....also there is a red black going from the PNP to the ECM this wire is not present on manual cars and it may be sending false signals to the ECM and causing your ABS codes....you can cut this wire and use if for the 12v feed to the red/yellow or just cut and tape.....OK now you want your clutch switch to work right?....OK the PNP has brown ground wire, cut this and connect to one wire of your clutch position switch (the very top switch on your clutch) and attach the other wire of your clutch position switch to ground....OK as far as the reverse lights don't try to run it through the relay....this will only screw up the logic circuit as I think you have already seen....find which wire on the PNP goes to the reverse lamps, cut it, run a wire from there to one terminal on you backup switch and the other wire on the backup switch run to a switched 12v source with a 10 amp fuse.....I've been studying diagrams all morning (bentley and otherwise) so I hope this helps but of course my car is a Y2K Bug so there may be differences......
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Old December 31st, 2006, 08:32   #178
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NDVW....if you want to keep your auto axles you can use 108mm flanges from a O2J 1.8t or vr6....vortex member turborabbit77 has a set for $50 shipped anywhere USA
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Old December 31st, 2006, 14:04   #179
alphaseinor
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NDVW
Alphasenior....how much of an increase in mpg have you seen? Don't remember seeing you say or anyone ask you that. Just curious.
My previous best was 32mpg with the automatic, and my current best was 46 on my trip to colorado (80-85 MPH the whole way).
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Old December 31st, 2006, 14:14   #180
alphaseinor
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chirorob
In other news, VAG-COM shows lots of faults, ABS, convenience, ECU, TCU etc.
You should clear all of the codes from the various modules, then you shouldn't see any... if you do, then you have something that is loose. Clear all of the modules, and post the scan here.
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