How long its takes for the engine to reach operating temp normally?

amitsekhon · Nov 21, 2019

How long its takes for your MK7 EA28 TDI engine to reach operating temp normally?

Hi all,
Could you please guys note the approx time your MK7 Ea288 TDI engine is taking to reach the needle to 90deg C?
Please include ambient temp too.
I am suspecting some problem with my car.Its taking ~20 mins to reach the needle to 90 deg C even at ambient temp 10~11 deg C.I remember it used to heat up very fast.

My car is 2015 TDI Gold with 41,000Kms on the ODO.Bought brandnew 2 years ago.
Thanks.

calimustang · Nov 21, 2019

Hmmmmm you should have grille flapper that closes when engine is cold. The colder it gets the longer diesel engine warms up. Its common.

Keep a eye on the flapper, if its broken then it will take a long time to warm up.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

amitsekhon · Nov 21, 2019

calimustang said:
Hmmmmm you should have grille flapper that closes when engine is cold. The colder it gets the longer diesel engine warms up. Its common.

Keep a eye on the flapper, if its broken then it will take a long time to warm up.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think there is no flapper on Golf MQB TDIs.

calimustang · Nov 21, 2019

Hmmm from what I recall... “supposedly” all 2015’s gets grille flappers. I may be wrong.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

bigb · Nov 21, 2019

Do you still have the original water pump? VW calls it the "switchable coolant pump", it basically blocks the impeller from circulating coolant during the warm-up stage. There are also 3 cooling circuits designed to help the engine reach operating temperature as soon as possible. I have watched mine using Torque Pro and it is amazing how fast the coolant temp rises during the first few minutes, I assume this is with the impeller blocked and the micro cooling circuit only in use. At some point which I don't recall the numbers begin to rise more slowly. I don't have any real numbers for you at this time, and I have not tested it in cold weather yet, we get very little of that here. I can tell you that the dash gauge gets to 200 degrees F well before the coolant is actually that hot according to Torque Pro, at about 174F. It also stays right on 200F at coolant temps at least to 220F as I discovered last summer. So I suppose straight up on the temp "gauge" (200F on the American cars) is "operating temperature" and is not really a gauge at all, just an indicator of operating temperature that looks like a gauge.

Next time I drive it on a cold day I'll pay attention to how long it takes to reach OT and at what point the rise in temp begins to move at a slower rate. The fact that I see a rapid temp rise in the first few minutes tells me that my switchable coolant pump, and the order of cooling circuits enabled, are probably working as designed.

amitsekhon · Nov 21, 2019

bigb said:
Do you still have the original water pump? VW calls it the "switchable coolant pump", it basically blocks the impeller from circulating coolant during the warm-up stage. There are also 3 cooling circuits designed to help the engine reach operating temperature as soon as possible. I have watched mine using Torque Pro and it is amazing how fast the coolant temp rises during the first few minutes, I assume this is with the impeller blocked and the micro cooling circuit only in use. At some point which I don't recall the numbers begin to rise more slowly. I don't have any real numbers for you at this time, and I have not tested it in cold weather yet, we get very little of that here. I can tell you that the dash gauge gets to 200 degrees F well before the coolant is actually that hot according to Torque Pro, at about 174F. It also stays right on 200F at coolant temps at least to 220F as I discovered last summer. So I suppose straight up on the temp "gauge" (200F on the American cars) is "operating temperature" and is not really a gauge at all, just an indicator of operating temperature that looks like a gauge.

Next time I drive it on a cold day I'll pay attention to how long it takes to reach OT and at what point the rise in temp begins to move at a slower rate. The fact that I see a rapid temp rise in the first few minutes tells me that my switchable coolant pump, and the order of cooling circuits enabled, are probably working as designed.

Hi Brian,
Thanks for your reply.Yes I still have original water pump.I am suspecting there is something wrong either with the switchable water pump or micro coolant circuit.Thermostat seems to be Okay as after reaching operating temperature, it maintains steady 88deg C (~191F).

That would be great if you could just give me an approximate time to reach that temperature along with ambient temperature.

Yes you are right about the temperature needle.Instrument cluster just points it to 90 deg C (~194 F) as soon the temp reaches close to 70 deg C(158F).

I should have logged with VCDS when the car was new but I am pretty sure that it was warming up quite fast as I was surprised to see it after driving ALH TDI.

Thanks.

Matt927 · Nov 22, 2019

There was no lower grille airflow control on my 2015. Believe that was for the Jetta platform with EA288.

740GLE · Nov 22, 2019

Matt927 said:
There was no lower grille airflow control on my 2015. Believe that was for the Jetta platform with EA288.

possibly even the jetta hybrid at that.

bigb · Nov 22, 2019

Short very gentle drive after work. Car not driven for 3 days. Ambient 61-F. City streets, 20-30 MPH with stop and go. Watching Torque Pro and dash gauge, all numbers are in Fahrenheit.
1.5 minutes TP at 102, 2.5 min 120, 3.5 min dropped back to 112, 4 min at 126, 4.5 min dash gauge finally moved off peg to 2nd graduation or 140, TP says 140. Slowed to stop sign TP dropped to 131, 6 min TP says 134, 7 min TP=140/dash gauge 150, 8 min dash gauge at 160/TP says 148, 8.5 min dash=170/TP=153, 9 min dash=180/TP=158, 10 min dash=190/TP-165, 11 min dash at 200 TP at 170. So 11 min total to operating temp according to dash gauge even though actual coolant was only at 170.

Will check again on a longer drive and hopefully a colder ambient.

ProfBrown · Nov 23, 2019

I would say your temps are totally normal given your ambient temps. My car this morning took over 10 miles to get warm, ambient for me was about 55-60 degrees. Now some of that was coasting, but there was about 3 miles of pretty constant 25 miles an hour with stop signs so there was heat generated for sure.

Diesels tend to run cooler than gas motors, so with that in mind, they tend to take longer to warm up. I would say you have nothing to worry about for the most part.

bigb · Nov 23, 2019

Today's observation: Ambient 46F, coolant temp at startup 55F. Within 4 minutes Torque Pro showed 100F,at 7 min TP showed 130F. About 130F is where something happens, either the switchable coolant pump starts moving coolant or a thermostat begins to open because that is when the rapid increase in temp slows down. After about 130F the temps don't rise at all if I am standing at a light, only when there is a load. It is also where the heat first feels warm. I did notice the heat robs coolant temp at any speed of between about 6 & 10 degrees F, even at idle. It took a full 17 minutes for the dash gauge to reach 200F and it took TP a full 22 min to reach about 198F.

This was a stop and go drive at speeds from 25-50 with the first 10 min or so trying to get out of the constant stop and go and then it was 50 MPH stopping a few more times for lights.

If you can set up a way to monitor coolant temp other than the dash gauge you can watch the numbers rise to the C equivalent of 130F and see if they slow down a lot at that point, to me this indicates that the quick warm up design is working.

Datalore · Nov 26, 2019

I have also noticed around 125- 130 degrees F that the coolant temps will drop back down to 112-120ish. I believe this is the water pump shroud opening up allowing coolant to start flowing around the block as opposed to being static coolant.

740GLE · Nov 26, 2019

Rise and fall of the needle has been observed on our Passat as well, it drops like a rock if temps are lower than freezing, the good thing is that it's pumping decent warm air into the cabin while the gauge dances around.

My guess is there's a cabin heat thermostat that opens up.

Z85rado · Nov 27, 2019

The car does take longer than a gas car.. and will also cool down at lights before you hit the highway. the fan shroud does have little plastic flaps that when sitting are closed

alext91 · Nov 27, 2019

We experience longer warm up times in addition to the rise and fall on our 2015. I would say it takes 15-20min to reach operating temp in our 2015. My 2013 reaches temp usually in less than 10min, faster now that I installed a grill block. Strange how they designed a system to decrease warm up time but it seems to take longer to warm up. Maybe the EA288 is that much more efficient?

Nuje · Nov 28, 2019

I'm surprised people report seeing the temp needle move around on their Mk7 cars.

Mine shows 90C from about 78C on up; it hasn't ever gotten hot enough to move above 90, but on my Navdy (which reads from the OBDII port), it has hit 101 in the summer on some long mountain hills.

Leaving home today, I took some (mental) notes:
Outside air temp: -3C
Coolant immediately after start-up: 0C
Leaving the driveway a minute later: 4C
Driving ~50km/h for 2km through town: 35C
After 5km @90km/h up to the freeway (gaining 120m elevation): 67C (on 10C day, I'd be close to 90C by this point).
Took 12km on the freeway at ~115km/h to hit 90C. From there, it went up to 92C (at which point the thermostat must've fully opened), and then the rest of the 120km drive (at 105-115km/h) was 88-89C (which is barely cooler than in non-freezing weather; normally, it runs at 90-91C).

bigb · Nov 28, 2019

Nuje said:
I'm surprised people report seeing the temp needle move around on their Mk7 cars.

Mine shows 90C from about 78C on up; it hasn't ever gotten hot enough to move above 90, but on my Navdy (which reads from the OBDII port), it has hit 101 in the summer on some long mountain hills.

Leaving home today, I took some (mental) notes:
Outside air temp: -3C
Coolant immediately after start-up: 0C
Leaving the driveway a minute later: 4C
Driving ~50km/h for 2km through town: 35C
After 5km @90km/h up to the freeway (gaining 120m elevation): 67C (on 10C day, I'd be close to 90C by this point).
Took 12km on the freeway at ~115km/h to hit 90C. From there, it went up to 92C (at which point the thermostat must've fully opened), and then the rest of the 120km drive (at 105-115km/h) was 88-89C (which is barely cooler than in non-freezing weather; normally, it runs at 90-91C).

I only see it when monitoring live data. The dash gauge stays pretty much steady.

bigb · Nov 29, 2019

Ok so today was pretty cold and rainy here and when the dash gauge reached 140F I switched on the heat and it pulled the dash gauge back down to 120F

Nuje · Nov 29, 2019

Not to be Canadian, but I don't think you get to use the phrase "pretty cold here" if you're able to wait until the coolant hits 140F to turn on the heat.

(It was -12C / 10F here this morning)

bigb · Nov 30, 2019

Nuje said:
Not to be Canadian, but I don't think you get to use the phrase "pretty cold here" if you're able to wait until the coolant hits 140F to turn on the heat.
(It was -12C / 10F here this morning)

You're right, it's all relative though. It does freeze here occasionally though and I recall 17F one morning a few years ago. Of course we have a mountain nearby where we can be in the snow in approx 1 hour if we should desire.

740GLE · Dec 2, 2019

alext91 said:
We experience longer warm up times in addition to the rise and fall on our 2015. I would say it takes 15-20min to reach operating temp in our 2015. My 2013 reaches temp usually in less than 10min, faster now that I installed a grill block. Strange how they designed a system to decrease warm up time but it seems to take longer to warm up. Maybe the EA288 is that much more efficient?

I think the difference is the grid heater and how much heat the car extracts from the coolant loop into the cabin.

The 2013 (CJAA) has the grid heater and a series coolant loop, the ES288 has more complex coolant loop which causes the dancing needle that is really really dependent on what you have the cabin heat set at.

The other thing to keep in mind is the extra oil capacity of the EA288, almost 2 extra quarts of oil takes that much more time to warm up before the engine really really reaches normal operating temps.

amitsekhon · Dec 6, 2019

bigb said:
Today's observation: Ambient 46F, coolant temp at startup 55F. Within 4 minutes Torque Pro showed 100F,at 7 min TP showed 130F. About 130F is where something happens, either the switchable coolant pump starts moving coolant or a thermostat begins to open because that is when the rapid increase in temp slows down. After about 130F the temps don't rise at all if I am standing at a light, only when there is a load. It is also where the heat first feels warm. I did notice the heat robs coolant temp at any speed of between about 6 & 10 degrees F, even at idle. It took a full 17 minutes for the dash gauge to reach 200F and it took TP a full 22 min to reach about 198F.
This was a stop and go drive at speeds from 25-50 with the first 10 min or so trying to get out of the constant stop and go and then it was 50 MPH stopping a few more times for lights.
If you can set up a way to monitor coolant temp other than the dash gauge you can watch the numbers rise to the C equivalent of 130F and see if they slow down a lot at that point, to me this indicates that the quick warm up design is working.

Thank a lot bigb for the valuable info and taking your time to log.I really appreciate it!!

I am sorry for the late response as for some reason tdiclub never sent me email notification for the new replies

I will use VCDS to log the temp and report back and then we can compare properly.Thanks again my friend!!

amitsekhon · Dec 6, 2019

Nuje said:
I'm surprised people report seeing the temp needle move around on their Mk7 cars.

Mine shows 90C from about 78C on up; it hasn't ever gotten hot enough to move above 90, but on my Navdy (which reads from the OBDII port), it has hit 101 in the summer on some long mountain hills.

Leaving home today, I took some (mental) notes:
Outside air temp: -3C
Coolant immediately after start-up: 0C
Leaving the driveway a minute later: 4C
Driving ~50km/h for 2km through town: 35C
After 5km @90km/h up to the freeway (gaining 120m elevation): 67C (on 10C day, I'd be close to 90C by this point).
Took 12km on the freeway at ~115km/h to hit 90C. From there, it went up to 92C (at which point the thermostat must've fully opened), and then the rest of the 120km drive (at 105-115km/h) was 88-89C (which is barely cooler than in non-freezing weather; normally, it runs at 90-91C).

Thanks a lot Nuje for taking measurements!!That would sure help me to compare.

Nuje · Dec 6, 2019

If you're driving on the quiet country roads around Langley at 70-90km/h, I can see how it'd take a long time to warm up; there's just not much demand on the engine. And even if/when you get onto the #1 and you're driving 100km/h+, there's so much traffic that again, there's not much effort required of the engine.

Having said that, though, I've been watching mine more closely recently, and even just driving 2-3km here in town right around freezing (with the car having sat for almost 24hrs), I'll hit 50C in that 5-6 minutes worth of stop/go city driving.

amitsekhon · Dec 7, 2019

So i tested it today.Coolant temp was taken with TorquePro
Car was parked in a garage and garage temp was 10 degC(50 F).
2 mins--29 deg C --84.2F(ambient was 7 deg C--{44.6F})
3 mins--36 C (96.8F)
4 mins--40C (104F)
5 mins--50C (122F)
6 mins--58C (136.4F)
7 mins--54C (129.2F)(standing at light)
8 mins--58C (136.4F)
10mins-63C (145.4F)
12mins-66C (150.8F)
13mins-70C (158F)
14mins-72C (161.6)
16mins-73C (163.4F)
19mins-73C (163.4F)
20mins-75C (167F)
21mins-74C (165.2F)--Reached destination.Distance travelled 18kms(11 miles)
All around driving @ 60~80km/hr (37mph to 50mph)

So maybe bad thermostat.It should at least reach 88 C (190F) after driving that much distance??

What are your opinion guys?Thanks.

Nuje · Dec 7, 2019

The fact that the coolant gets up to 50C very quickly indicates to me that the thermostat is doing its job in keeping the circulation loop closed.

In cool weather, on the quiet roads, driving steady state, at 60-80km/h, the car (assuming it's DSG) is probably in 6th most of the time, running around 1200rpm. Not much heat being produced doing that. I'd say the temp run-up is probably fairly normal.

At 74C, was the gauge on the instrument cluster showing 90C ("normal operating temp")?

amitsekhon · Dec 7, 2019

Nuje said:
The fact that the coolant gets up to 50C very quickly indicates to me that the thermostat is doing its job in keeping the circulation loop closed.

In cool weather, on the quiet roads, driving steady state, at 60-80km/h, the car (assuming it's DSG) is probably in 6th most of the time, running around 1200rpm. Not much heat being produced doing that. I'd say the temp run-up is probably fairly normal.

At 74C, was the gauge on the instrument cluster showing 90C ("normal operating temp")?

No the needle was slightly lower than 90C on the instrument cluster.

But if I remember right, when i bought this car brand new 2 years ago,it used to climb to 88 C (checked with torque) before reaching my work even in sub zero temp.

740GLE · Dec 9, 2019

I feel cabin heat demand plays the biggest role in "warm up" time.

This past Saturday night, was 8F out car was outside, we cranked the heat to 78 fans on medium, temp gauge on the dash moved to the 8 oclock position so about 2-3 ticks above "cold" gauge never moved until we turned the cabin temp down and oil temp started to show on the cluster, and then the gauge only moved up towards 200F.

In previous cold starts if we had turned fans and cabin temp down, the gauge would rise then fall then rise again during warm up.

Datalore · Dec 11, 2019

Nuje said:
The fact that the coolant gets up to 50C very quickly indicates to me that the thermostat is doing its job in keeping the circulation loop closed.

I would say that the initial warm up to 50C is due to the "static coolant". A plastic shroud covers the water pump allowing the coolant to remain motionless around the engine block. The initial cabin heat during this time is due to the micro coolant circuit. The micro circuit uses an electric pump to move a small amount of coolant from the cylinder head, to the EGR cooler, then the heater core.

Once the shroud opens up around 128F- 135F, the coolant temp will drop a small amount before continuing to warm. The thermostat shouldn't be open at all until 170F- 180F.

RIP TDI · Dec 11, 2019

Datalore said:
The initial cabin heat during this time is due to the micro coolant circuit.

That depends on whether your model has the "Auxiliary Electric Heater" (equipment code 7E6) as standard equipment and whether or not you set cabin heat/fan to max., which activates it. My sense is that many owners don't realize they are equipped with this not-uncommon aux. heater because the owner's manual doesn't mention it, and the equipment codes sticker doesn't list it, but the full build sheet, available online, does list it. I'm not sure what determines whether it is installed as standard equipment, presumably related to trim level and geographic region. My Southeast region SE GSW has it and it definitely produces almost instantaneous heat after a stone cold winter start. BTW, this is not the 9M0 "Auxiliary Heater".

How long its takes for the engine to reach operating temp normally?

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