Help with electrical gremlins

Sprocket

Sprockette's hubby
Joined
Nov 18, 2004
Location
MI
TDI
2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit Eco Diesel, 2005 Passat Silverstone Grey, 1996 Passat Storm Grey
I have a couple of electrical issues I need help to figure out please.

First is the cruise control function does not work when my headlights are turned on. I have a Euro headlight switch and CC works with the following: with the headlights off, parking lights / DRLs on, fog lights on.

The second I move the headlight switch to turn the headlights on, CC disengages, and will not resume. Totally not functional with the headlights on.

If I turn the headlights off, CC will work again. I hit the set or resume button and it functions normally.

Here are some pictures showing what's happening in VCDS. I'm not sure if these are normal readings or not and was hoping someone could check their car as well and report back.

Cruise control switch off & headlight switch off:


Cruise control switch off & headlight switch on:


Cruise control switch on & headlight switch off:


Cruise control switch on & headlight switch on:


Next up is the random function of all of my door locks. I thought this was due to the car sitting for months on end and they all seemed to work off and on with the rear passenger side and driver side door giving me the most issues. They cleared up for a while, but the rear passenger side was giving me the most issues, so I ordered a new door lock latch actuator, then it cleared up and the driver front door started acting up.

I'm unsure if these are all lock actuator issues or something else electrical causing the random issues.

If I use my physical key to manually lock the drivers front door, all locks function as they should and lock.

If I use my physical key to manually unlock the drivers front door, all of the locks (except for the passenger rear) will unlock like they should. Passenger rear door is intermittent though.

Here is the VCDS scan:

Sunday,08,April,2018,13:04:41:03916
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 10 x64
VCDS Version: 18.2.0.3 (x64)
Data version: 20180212 DS287.0
www.Ross-Tech.com

Chassis Type: 3B (3B - VW Passat B5 (1997 > 2005))
Scan: 01 02 03 08 15 16 17 19 35 36 37 46 47 55 56 57 58 75 76 77


VIN: WVWAE63B75E037384 Mileage: 228720km-142120miles
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine Labels: 038-906-016-BHW.lbl
Part No SW: 038 997 016 T HW: 028 101 198 2
Component: R4 2,0L EDC G000SG 0314
Revision: 12345678 Serial number: VWZ7Z0D0237910
Coding: 0150031
Shop #: WSC 66565 257 00032
VCID: 2F6DA95ABD12003CB1-5140

No fault code found.
Readiness: 0 0 0 0 X

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes Labels: 4B0-614-517.lbl
Part No: 4B0 614 517 G
Component: ABS/ESP front 3428
Coding: 04255
Shop #: WSC 05311
VCID: 25414B72BFEE4A6C4B-5124

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags Labels: 6Q0-909-605-VW5.lbl
Part No: 1C0 909 605 C
Component: 09 AIRBAG VW61 04 0003
Coding: 12345
Shop #: WSC 05311
VCID: 24475676B4D4B3645C-5124

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 16: Steering wheel Labels: 1J0-907-487-A.lbl
Part No: 1J0 907 487 A
Component: Lenkradelektronik 0005
Coding: 00118
Shop #: WSC 05311
VCID: 2F6DA95AED12003CB1-515E

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments Labels: 3B0-920-xx5-17.lbl
Part No: 3B0 920 929 C
Component: KOMBI+WEGFAHRSP VDO V04
Coding: 13235
Shop #: WSC 00000
VCID: 275D417AC5E2587C79-5124
WVWAE63B75E037384 VWZ7Z0D0237910

2 Faults Found:
01336 - Company Data Bus for Comfort System
49-10 - No Communications - Intermittent
01304 - Radio
49-00 - No Communications

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway Labels: 6N0-909-901-19.lbl
Part No: 6N0 909 901
Component: Gateway K<->CAN 0001
Coding: 00006
Shop #: WSC 05311
VCID: 70EF6A2630AC5FC4E8-5124

2 Faults Found:
01336 - Company Data Bus for Comfort System
49-10 - No Communications - Intermittent
01304 - Radio
49-00 - No Communications

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv. Labels: 1C0-959-799.lbl
Part No: 1C0 959 799 C
Component: 08 Komfortgerát HLO 0004
Coding: 00259
Shop #: WSC 05311
VCID: 377D913A1542C8FCE9-4B1C

Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1C1959801
Component: 08 Tõrsteuer.FS KLO 0202

Subsystem 2 - Part No: 1C1959802
Component: 08 Tõrsteuer.BF KLO 0202

Subsystem 3 - Part No: 1C0959811
Component: 08 Tõrsteuer.HL KLO 0202

Subsystem 4 - Part No: 1C0959812
Component: 08 Tõrsteuer.HR KLO 0202

4 Faults Found:
00928 - Locking Module for Central Locking; Front Driver Side (F220)
27-00 - Implausible Signal
00929 - Locking Module for Central Locking; Front Passenger Side (F221)
27-10 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
00930 - Locking Module for Central Locking; Rear Left (F222)
27-10 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
00931 - Locking Module for Central Locking; Rear Right (F223)
27-10 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent

End-------------------------(Elapsed Time: 04:40)--------------------------
 
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afarfalla

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2006
Location
sugar land tx
TDI
05 Passat sedan and 05 wagen
all your faults are CC module related. With battery disconnected unplug CC module, plug it back in maybe you'll get lucky, then start looking for a bad harness or wire in a harness. Did you work on anything before this happened?
Your CC problem could be in the stalk, I had a problem with my light switch shorting internally.
 
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Sprocket

Sprockette's hubby
Joined
Nov 18, 2004
Location
MI
TDI
2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit Eco Diesel, 2005 Passat Silverstone Grey, 1996 Passat Storm Grey
Long story short, issues with CC started when the manual swap was done. I've been working with TD_Tuning and he got the cruise working, but then it would stop working (not realizing it had anything to do with the headlight switch).

The car has been mostly sitting the last few years due to trans problems while Whitbread and I worked on it off and on.

Now that the trans issues are sorted out and I'm driving it more frequently, I'm trying to button up these small issues.

I'm going to go through all the wiring and also put the stock headlight switch in and see if I have the same issues.
 

afarfalla

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2006
Location
sugar land tx
TDI
05 Passat sedan and 05 wagen
your problems are self inflicted, and you missed something.

A lot of the auto to manual swaps end up with problems like yours and the dash will look like a xmas tree.

Start a conversation with some one who worked out all the bugs.

2 threads one by sprocket the other imo000 have 334 posts between them, all the information you would need is most likely addressed there.
 
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Sprocket

Sprockette's hubby
Joined
Nov 18, 2004
Location
MI
TDI
2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit Eco Diesel, 2005 Passat Silverstone Grey, 1996 Passat Storm Grey
your problems are self inflicted, you missed something.

A lot of the auto to manual swaps end up with problems like yours and the dash will look like a xmas tree.

Start a conversation with some one who worked out all the bugs
Lol, the dash looks normal, no CEL or any other lights lit up that don't belong. Pretty minor issue (cruise control) considering all that was done to it, but that's why I'm here asking for help. Thanks for your suggestions thus far for my self inflicted issues.
 

Matt-98AHU

Loose Nut Behind the Wheel Vendor
Joined
Apr 23, 2006
Location
Gresham, OR
TDI
2001 Golf TDI, 2005 Passat wagon, 2004 Touareg V10.
For the lock system, there is an error in the data bus for the comfort system and codes set for not seeing every door module, so somewhere there's a fault in that data bus that is scrambling communication to everything.

Usually if it were a cut wire that was shorting, you'd also get a code for the data bus operating in "single wire mode." The data bus when fully functional is 2 wires and they all crimp together in one big lump (all 4 doors) right by the convenience control module.

Sometimes they get weird. It's always worth trying a capacitive discharge, clearing codes and try everything again, see how it goes. Otherwise you might end up trying to unplug one door at a time until you restore communication to the other doors, maybe there's a bad door module (each door's "control module" is part of the window motor--it acts to translate all the signals in that door to the data bus for every other module on that data bus to see... cuts down on the wiring... a lot). And a bad door module can scramble communication for all the other modules.

As for cruise control, I can see bit 2 (counting right to left, starting with 0 like a real nerd who understands binary) in field 2 (6.2, if you will... block 6 field 2) changing to a 1 whenever the headlights are on. That is a great indicator that there is something wired or shorted to the headlight wiring and is sending a signal to the ECM.

From what my info source seems to indicate, that is in fact the recognition for the clutch switch. Basically, the engine computer sees the clutch pedal as being pressed whenever the headlights are turned on.

Typically, the clutch switch for cruise control works by sending 12V full time to a certain pin on the ECU and when you press the pedal, the switch breaks contact and there's no longer 12V on that pin at the ECU. So, I suspect the power source for the clutch switch is wired to something that is turned OFF whenever the headlights are turned ON.

Find a more consistent source of voltage for the input to the clutch switch that is on whenever the key is on, and things should be just fine.

I'm having a hard time thinking of what gets turned off when you turn the low beams on... Haven't noticed any other bizarre things that go off when the headlights turn on?
 

Matt-98AHU

Loose Nut Behind the Wheel Vendor
Joined
Apr 23, 2006
Location
Gresham, OR
TDI
2001 Golf TDI, 2005 Passat wagon, 2004 Touareg V10.
Only thing I can think of that gets switched off when the headlights are on is the DRLs.

So, wondering if the power source for your clutch switch is from the DRLs somehow. Clutch switch voltage input connected to a white/yellow wire perhaps?

Suppose if it came down to it, you could just crimp a ring terminal on the voltage in wire to the clutch switch and put it on the 75/X threaded terminal on the underside of the relay panel. At least that power is only on with the ignition switch on, it switches back off when you turn to the start position, then as soon as you're back to normal run position, you'll have power restored... and typically the pedal is pressed during start up anyway, so that voltage should already be cut off from getting to the ECU during normal start up anyway.
 

matrick

Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2018
Location
Pennsylvania, US
TDI
'04 2.0 Passat GLS
Only thing I can think of that gets switched off when the headlights are on is the DRLs.

So, wondering if the power source for your clutch switch is from the DRLs somehow. Clutch switch voltage input connected to a white/yellow wire perhaps?

Suppose if it came down to it, you could just crimp a ring terminal on the voltage in wire to the clutch switch and put it on the 75/X threaded terminal on the underside of the relay panel. At least that power is only on with the ignition switch on, it switches back off when you turn to the start position, then as soon as you're back to normal run position, you'll have power restored... and typically the pedal is pressed during start up anyway, so that voltage should already be cut off from getting to the ECU during normal start up anyway.
I guess a decent way to test that would be to pull the ebrake up slightly while in CC. If CC is wired into the DRLs then this should shut it off, no?
 

vwztips

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2009
Location
Greenville, SC
TDI
2005 Passat GLS Wagon TDI 5 spd manual w/BSM delete 2011 Tiguan TDI/DSG 2005 Audi A4 Avant 6MQ TDI 2011 BMW X5 35d
I get power for the clutch switch from the Red/White going to the brake switch.
 

Matt-98AHU

Loose Nut Behind the Wheel Vendor
Joined
Apr 23, 2006
Location
Gresham, OR
TDI
2001 Golf TDI, 2005 Passat wagon, 2004 Touareg V10.
I guess a decent way to test that would be to pull the ebrake up slightly while in CC. If CC is wired into the DRLs then this should shut it off, no?
Let me amend that. Depends on which side of the DRL relay the clutch switch is wired to.

If it's wired to the relay OUTPUT, then yes, you're correct. If it's wired to DRL relay input, then it's just tapped to the power source direct from the headlight switch, which will be on if headlight switch is off regardless of position of parking brake...

Spoke with Sprocket a couple hours ago and it turns out his clutch switch was indeed wired to the DRLs... DRL relay removed, wire with spade terminal put directly into the relay socket, pin 5, which is power FROM light switch for DRLs. Works better if you put it in pin 8, just one pin to the left. That's load reduction power ;)
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
I just put THREE door latches in a B5, two of which had been bad for at least a couple years, and he never would do anything about it, then a third one finally started acting up. So I replaced three, and when he came to pick the car up, the fourth one started acting up. :p

Door latches are common, too common if you ask me, but whatever. At any one time, I am lucky to only have one flaking out in my fleet. ;)

That has nothing to do with your cruise control, though, but it would not shock me at all if several or even all four door latches are bad. Sometimes it IS that simple.

I have most of a parts car still, if for some reason you find a bad door harness or door module/motor and you want to try that.

I have also randomly seen CAN bus communication faults that do not really seem to have any obvious cause, but I know low voltage can play havoc on the Germans' super sensitive electronics. I've fixed lots of these goofy problems by simply making sure the battery and its connections, both power AND ground, are clean and secure and up to par.

The only link I can think of with the cruise and the lights is that the headlight circuit goes through the stalk switch, which I theorize is because some of the B5 (and the A4, for that matter) was borrowed from existing Audi subsystems, which had the headlight switch in the stalk assembly (they used an extra little stunted stalk for the lights, no rotary knob on the dash). So it is possible that something is worn/touching/shorting in the stalk and when you turn the headlights on, even though the Volkswagens' switch is in the dash, something still passes through the stalk assembly.
 
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